https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fostex-fe206en-or-dayton-ps220-8.323208/#post-6803633
Following up on the Dayton PS220 project above. Special thanks to Curt from Speaker Design Works and his Singularities.
I was wanting some more highs, but not overpowering. Ended up using the Vifa ¾" tweeter(now Peerless by Tymphany). Integrating a front tweeter with the full range, not easy. After discussions with Curt, decided to go with a rear firing tweeter for ambient fill, air, not wanting harsh.
Full range without a crossover. For the tweeter I originally went a 1st order at 10K, using the Dayton film and foil, 0.47uF x 4. It did very little, few cymbals, muted, disappointing. Added a ClarityCap CSA 1.5uF, total 3.8uF, crossover 5.9K, about as low I would go with 1st order and the Vifa ¾".
Now with air, ambience, no phase issues. Additional volume is there, not overpowering. For this, less is more. Too much would have been too much.
Joseph
Following up on the Dayton PS220 project above. Special thanks to Curt from Speaker Design Works and his Singularities.
I was wanting some more highs, but not overpowering. Ended up using the Vifa ¾" tweeter(now Peerless by Tymphany). Integrating a front tweeter with the full range, not easy. After discussions with Curt, decided to go with a rear firing tweeter for ambient fill, air, not wanting harsh.
Full range without a crossover. For the tweeter I originally went a 1st order at 10K, using the Dayton film and foil, 0.47uF x 4. It did very little, few cymbals, muted, disappointing. Added a ClarityCap CSA 1.5uF, total 3.8uF, crossover 5.9K, about as low I would go with 1st order and the Vifa ¾".
Now with air, ambience, no phase issues. Additional volume is there, not overpowering. For this, less is more. Too much would have been too much.
Joseph
Attachments
The Vifa 3/4" has an Fs of 1690, so my 1st order Butterworth crossover of 5900Hz is a little under two octaves away. It has a stated sensitivity of 88, with the on axis response about 4dB higher over 10,000Hz. The full range Dayton PS 220 has a sensitivity of 96.5. For a dome tweeter, the Vifa 3/4" has a higher sensitivity over 10,000Hz than most. Since another goal was to limit the crossover to a tweeter cap, the Vifa 3/4" came out on top for ambient fill goal. I am interested if anyone has another tweeter suggestion. I only have published specs to use. Thanks
I had a similar " problem " of too little treble on some full range drivers, whilst I have used rear tweeters before I decided to boost the treble between the DAC and amp, as I was using an attenuater interconnect to tame the linear volume pot it was easy to bypass it with a few caps for the desired result.
While the whizzer cone in the Dayton PS220 does a respectable job on axis, I always felt the off-axis performance would be noticeably improved with a rear firing 'helper' tweeter. For one reason or another, never got around to it. My pair eventually went off to a new home and the opportunity was lost. I'm happy the Joseph took on the challenge. I'm certain his circuit would work well in the Singularity design as well as it did in Joseph's design.
The D19D05-08 was an excellent choice for this purpose, and I was glad the Joseph chose it for several reasons. One was its excellent dispersion characteristics and boosted response above 10K. Another was the fact it has ferrofluid in the gap, significantly lowering the Q of the impedance peak at Fs. This, combined with an Xmax of 0.4mm suggests it can handle reasonably high SPL’s in spite of the first order, crossover. Attenuation models to be somewhere around -15 dB at fs with respect to the level above 10 kHz. I suspect it will keep up with the PS220 at all reasonable listening levels without undue distortion.
Nicely done Joseph!
Curt
The D19D05-08 was an excellent choice for this purpose, and I was glad the Joseph chose it for several reasons. One was its excellent dispersion characteristics and boosted response above 10K. Another was the fact it has ferrofluid in the gap, significantly lowering the Q of the impedance peak at Fs. This, combined with an Xmax of 0.4mm suggests it can handle reasonably high SPL’s in spite of the first order, crossover. Attenuation models to be somewhere around -15 dB at fs with respect to the level above 10 kHz. I suspect it will keep up with the PS220 at all reasonable listening levels without undue distortion.
Nicely done Joseph!
Curt
Now looking to use a Morel CAT378 for the rear firing tweeter. The extra dBs should be a better match for the Dayton PS-220. The stated impedance is 8ohms. The supplied specs have an impedance of 6.2ohms in the 3000-4000Hz range. Any suggestions for the lowest crossover, highest cap value for a first order crossover? Thanks, Joseph
I assume the 5.6 µF note on the frequency response plot is a suggested value for normal use, and is likely a conservative/safe place to start. This plot is directly from the Morel spec sheet.
If you don't need high output or are willing to accept more distortion, a lower cross point is likely feasible since Fs is 700 Hz. How low is hard to say, since so many things about the use scenario factor into it.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/horn-tweeters/morel-cat378-morel-horn-tweeter/
If you don't need high output or are willing to accept more distortion, a lower cross point is likely feasible since Fs is 700 Hz. How low is hard to say, since so many things about the use scenario factor into it.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/horn-tweeters/morel-cat378-morel-horn-tweeter/
My goal was to get more highs with ambient fill. Too much would be too much. The Morel CAT378 seems to be a good fit.
More dBs and a lower crossover than with the Vifa ¾," so more highs, without having to integrate or think about on or off axis.
Using the impedance of 6.2ohms and a crossover of 3800, I get 6.7µF. For stock on hand, I had 6.7µF.
I am not planning on any other crossover components.
Currently going with Kind of Blue.
Joseph
More dBs and a lower crossover than with the Vifa ¾," so more highs, without having to integrate or think about on or off axis.
Using the impedance of 6.2ohms and a crossover of 3800, I get 6.7µF. For stock on hand, I had 6.7µF.
I am not planning on any other crossover components.
Currently going with Kind of Blue.
Joseph
My current project uses Visaton BG17 drivers, and seemed a little shy in the treble, so I tried some cheap car tweeter, titanium bullet super tweeters. They are rear firing and seem to work well, although they do highlight the hiss from the TDA2822m amp, but I think when I add caps to the amp and some resistors to the tweeter (they're a bit too sensitive, currently toned down by a graphic equaliser) they should be fine.
I found my 12 inch whizzer cones full-rangers had a cone breakup around 10000 hz, which came across as a bright coarseness. After trying a few true crossovers and tweeters, I settled on forward firing Seas tweeters, 2nd order highpassed at about 11000 hz. The tweeters are about 5 db less efficient than the full-ranges, and aim towards me, while the main speakers have no toe in, lowering their upper mids, and keeping baffle reflections away from me, without using any filter.
None of my attempts with other speakers succeeded in my room, their are either open windows or door, glass,or drapes there.
Rexie disapproves of any helper tweeters. Puristism!
