Help to upgrade my diy subwofers

[TONI G]

Hello, I open this thread to get help in improving my current DIY subwofer.

Currently, I have ATS Loudspeakers. Jenzen-ATS

To reinforce the lowest frequencies I use a pair of subwofers in mono (connected in parallel, since the impedance of the subs is 8 omh and the Hypex works at 4 omh) amplified with a Hypex DS 4.0 amplification module.

I use the Perless SLS 12 in a sealed box of about 87 liters.

The perless ones work well but they are not real subs. I must use the eq to reinforce the lowest frequencies. My intention is to "fill out" the frequencies that are not capable of reproducing ATS (below 50Hz)

My question is the following: can anyone recommend subwofers of 12" for sealed box that can reproduce better than the Perless SLS 12? if possible, with a "reasonable" price.


BR


Toni

 

[5th element]

Almost all sealed subwoofers use large amounts of EQ to get their low frequency extension, nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make them any less of a subwoofer.

If you want really low bass without EQ then you need a ported or passive radiator design.

 

[TONI G]

Almost all sealed subwoofers use large amounts of EQ to get their low frequency extension, nothing wrong with that and it doesn't make them any less of a subwoofer.

If you want really low bass without EQ then you need a ported or passive radiator design.

thanks for answering. The problem for me is not having to use the eq. The problem is that when I use the eq. to increase the response of the perless at very low frequencies, at moderate volume the sub may have problems. I believe that the SLS 12 is more a wofer, not a subwofer. The box I use can allow a reflex output but my first option is a sealed box design for: 1. simpler design and 2. personal taste for the control and sound of a sealed box design.

Anyway, I'm not an expert, and maybe my idea of reaching 25-30 hz with a 12 "sub and sealed box is impossible

regards


Toni

 

[ICG]

To reinforce the lowest frequencies I use a pair of subwofers in mono (connected in parallel, since the impedance of the subs is 8 omh and the Hypex works at 4 omh) amplified with a Hypex DS 4.0 amplification module.

The Hypex DS work just fine with higher impedances aswell. To use the drivers in parallel isn't a mistake, rather the opposite since the amp got a lot more power on lower impedances.

I use the Perless SLS 12 in a sealed box of about 87 liters.

You mean each of them in 87l?

The perless ones work well but they are not real subs. I must use the eq to reinforce the lowest frequencies. My intention is to "fill out" the frequencies that are not capable of reproducing ATS (below 50Hz)

That's your problem, you've put them in a way too small enclosure if you put 2 into the 87l, at least that would explain the lack of deep bass.

My question is the following: can anyone recommend subwofers of 12" for sealed box that can reproduce better than the Perless SLS 12? if possible, with a "reasonable" price.

Yes, the JBL CS1214 work fine in a sealed enclosures and they are quite cheap.

 

[TONI G]

The Hypex DS work just fine with higher impedances aswell. To use the drivers in parallel isn't a mistake, rather the opposite since the amp got a lot more power on lower impedances.



You mean each of them in 87l?



That's your problem, you've put them in a way too small enclosure if you put 2 into the 87l, at least that would explain the lack of deep bass.



Yes, the JBL CS1214 work fine in a sealed enclosures and they are quite cheap.

Hello, thank you very much for your detailed response. I use two boxes of about 87 l each.
At present i have de subs in the corners

 

[ICG]

Hello, thank you very much for your detailed response. I use two boxes of about 87 l each.
At present i have de subs in the corners

The last photo doesn't show corner placement. Nevertheless.. Well, that should give you the most LF output (but not the best sound). If you aren't satisfied with that, you will not be satisfied with a different 12" driver, no matter what brand or type it will be. You either need to go much, MUCH bigger, double 15" BR or use double 18"+, sealed likely 21"+. Try other placements too since corner placement will give you the most low end boost, it will probably give you serious dips too, so positioning the subs differently will likely help you a lot.

 

[pieter t]

Toni,

I use a 12 inch Scanspeak 30W/4558 as a subwoofer in a 80 liter sealed enclosure.
Perfect bass reproduction.
Your 87 liter simulates an Fb of ~ 30 Hz with a 0.6 system Q.
With room gain and good placement you will have excellent bass without the need for equalization.
I have a spare new in box 30W/4558.
PM me when you are interested.

 

[norman bates]

I don't know of a 12" with sealed qtc .707 near 30hz.

15" rss390hf, qtc .707 sealed = 5.5ft3 with f3 near 32hz

18" um18-22, qtc .707 sealed = 9ft with f3 near 26hz, but qtc .9 makes 4.5ft3 for f3 also near 32hz, but stuffing can pull it a squeek lower.

 

[ICG]

The um18-22 isn't exactly cheap though. 422€ over here, PE 300$.

Tony, I think you should try first to place the subs differently and then try to EQ them to see how much more you actually need.

 

[TONI G]

Toni,

I use a 12 inch Scanspeak 30W/4558 as a subwoofer in a 80 liter sealed enclosure.
Perfect bass reproduction.
Your 87 liter simulates an Fb of ~ 30 Hz with a 0.6 system Q.
With room gain and good placement you will have excellent bass without the need for equalization.
I have a spare new in box 30W/4558.
PM me when you are interested.

Thank you very much for the information.


BR Toni

 

[TONI G]

I don't know of a 12" with sealed qtc .707 near 30hz.

15" rss390hf, qtc .707 sealed = 5.5ft3 with f3 near 32hz

18" um18-22, qtc .707 sealed = 9ft with f3 near 26hz, but qtc .9 makes 4.5ft3 for f3 also near 32hz, but stuffing can pull it a squeek lower.

Thank you very much for the information. My intention is to take advantage of the boxes so subs of 15 "or 18" are not an option for me.


BR


Toni

 

[TONI G]

Thank you very much everyone for the opinions. From what I see it seems quite complicated to have a sub of 12 "reproduce the lower frequencies without the reinforcement of a bass reflex. By the way, the room measures about 28 m2

I will try to locate the subs in other positions and see if the sound improves.


I will report the results.


BR


Toni

 

[TBTL]

Your 87 liter simulates an Fb of ~ 30 Hz with a 0.6 system Q.
With room gain and good placement you will have excellent bass without the need for equalization.

Unless you listen outdoors, the system must be equalized anyway to account for the effect of room modes.

 

[norman bates]

Ah.

And scanspeak are very expensive over here.

But that is very good f3 sealed for a 12".
I look at f3 not fsb.
A q of .707 is low as you get (f3) but a .9 with stuffing gets close and isn't huge sized with big drivers.

You are welcome.
I must remember to read closer what people are asking.

 

[TONI G]

Hello, for everyone who helped me in this thread, I want to comment in what way I have finally solved the improvement of my subwofers. I had long in mind to improve the pair of subs and not only aesthetically. It came using a pair of Peerless SLS-P830669. They work very well and the cone used is similar to the ATS wofer. However, after the addition of two Hypex 501 amplification modules, for me, the desired step was a pair of Scan-Speak 30W / 4558T00. Looking at the attached photos, it is clear that it offers better finishes: magnetic motor, spider, etc. yes, at a higher cost than Peerless. With the ecu option of the Hypex 501 you can correct the response based on the interaction with the room. Additionally, I also amplify the two wofers of the ATS with two Hypex 501 modules. So I am considering experimenting with the system going from a three way + subs to a four way. I would appreciate opinions for or against this idea.

BR
Toñi

 

[TONI G]

Here the photos