Hi,
I am looking for some ideas for a subwoofer for my music only system.
My speakers are small sealed 2ways with a f3 of about 75 Hz
The room is appros 11.5 x 13 x 10 FEET and has a spare bed, computer , clothes and one wall covered to within a foot of the ceiling with books.
I would like a sub that can play down to 30-35Hz in room, and be no more than 40litres net volume.
I liked a system with the Peerless 830500 + passive I heard briefly - too big 60 litres(?)
Would the 10" Peerless + passive with the 240watt amp from Jaycar looks like a good cantidate any other ideas?
I keep going round and round in circles,
John
I am looking for some ideas for a subwoofer for my music only system.
My speakers are small sealed 2ways with a f3 of about 75 Hz
The room is appros 11.5 x 13 x 10 FEET and has a spare bed, computer , clothes and one wall covered to within a foot of the ceiling with books.
I would like a sub that can play down to 30-35Hz in room, and be no more than 40litres net volume.
I liked a system with the Peerless 830500 + passive I heard briefly - too big 60 litres(?)
Would the 10" Peerless + passive with the 240watt amp from Jaycar looks like a good cantidate any other ideas?
I keep going round and round in circles,
John
Greets!
Peerless 830452 in a sealed 40 L net alignment looks good to me, especially if corner loaded. Better yet, the 830500. Not familiar with the Jaycar, but my philosophy is to have at least 1x the driver's rated power and preferably 2-3x since any decent driver can handle it for transient attacks.
GM
Peerless 830452 in a sealed 40 L net alignment looks good to me, especially if corner loaded. Better yet, the 830500. Not familiar with the Jaycar, but my philosophy is to have at least 1x the driver's rated power and preferably 2-3x since any decent driver can handle it for transient attacks.
GM
More Questions
Hi GM,
I take it that room boost would counteract the roll off from such a low Q design. I would rather have a little less bass than too much.
I would probably go with the 830500 as the price difference is small and the box is the same size. The Jaycar plate amp has 6db boost at 35hz, would I be better off using an amp that has no boost? I could order say a 500w BASH amp from Parts Express would that be a good match?
Your help is much appreciated,
John
Hi GM,
I take it that room boost would counteract the roll off from such a low Q design. I would rather have a little less bass than too much.
I would probably go with the 830500 as the price difference is small and the box is the same size. The Jaycar plate amp has 6db boost at 35hz, would I be better off using an amp that has no boost? I could order say a 500w BASH amp from Parts Express would that be a good match?
Your help is much appreciated,
John
Greets!
You're welcome!
Yes, you want the low Q for music and the room gain to flatten it out somewhat and personally I'd rather have no EQ than a non-adjustable one. I'm not familiar with any of the plate amps beyond the fact that some have adjustable EQ by changing out some resistors and that I've read good reviews of Adire's amps.
FWIW, my preference is acoustic solutions for acoustic problems and if I wanted more bass I'd add a long damped vent to tune it <20 Hz if I didn't want to afford another driver/box. Qt would still be low, but there would be considerable gain down low.
GM
You're welcome!
Yes, you want the low Q for music and the room gain to flatten it out somewhat and personally I'd rather have no EQ than a non-adjustable one. I'm not familiar with any of the plate amps beyond the fact that some have adjustable EQ by changing out some resistors and that I've read good reviews of Adire's amps.
FWIW, my preference is acoustic solutions for acoustic problems and if I wanted more bass I'd add a long damped vent to tune it <20 Hz if I didn't want to afford another driver/box. Qt would still be low, but there would be considerable gain down low.
GM
GM said:
I disagree. Although the driver can take the power without damage, the extra power is wasted on compressed transients. I prefer spending the extra money on better drivers, and using amplifers just large enough to push the driver to its linear limits.
John - The Dayton Reference 10" HF in 40L sealed would work very well in your room. Pair it with the PE 250 watt amp with adjustable bass boost. The Dayton Reference 12" HO would also work very well in 40L, and may even have less harmonic distortion than the 10" for a given volume level.
I've used a 10" driver in a vented cabinet that had an f3 of 31hz in a room slightly smaller than yours (8 foot ceiling), and it was boomy. I then went to a sealed design and it was much more neutral.
Dan
I keep going round and round in circles,
John
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You were probably taught as a kid, that one good turn deserves another😀(Sorry, couldn't resist)
BTW, I would recommend sealed sub for your room size.
John
--------------------------------------
You were probably taught as a kid, that one good turn deserves another😀(Sorry, couldn't resist)
BTW, I would recommend sealed sub for your room size.
I agree with owdi. There is no point having extra amplifier power if it cannot be used because you bought a cheap drive unit with low excursion.
The drive unit contributes most to the sound so spending the most here (rather than a bigger amp) to get the best one possible reaps greatest rewards. A more expensive driver will be more linear as well as higher excursion.
An excursion limit is an excursion limit. It does not matter if they are transients or long term signals, you simply cannot go into that territory. Unless your box is pretty small the system will be limited by excursion not thermal (voice coil) limits, so additional amp power is simply a frivolous waste.
Vented boom can be overcome a lot by overdamped alignment where tuning is made a bit lower than normal. It will depend on your chosen driver as to whether sealed or vented is best. On a budget I would always try to work with a vented design first, as it gets you the most bang for your buck and resources.
The drive unit contributes most to the sound so spending the most here (rather than a bigger amp) to get the best one possible reaps greatest rewards. A more expensive driver will be more linear as well as higher excursion.
An excursion limit is an excursion limit. It does not matter if they are transients or long term signals, you simply cannot go into that territory. Unless your box is pretty small the system will be limited by excursion not thermal (voice coil) limits, so additional amp power is simply a frivolous waste.
Vented boom can be overcome a lot by overdamped alignment where tuning is made a bit lower than normal. It will depend on your chosen driver as to whether sealed or vented is best. On a budget I would always try to work with a vented design first, as it gets you the most bang for your buck and resources.
Gentlemen thank you for your input.
What I am trying to do is make some design choices that will work in my circumstances. I have a wife who is rather over my audio obsession, we both love music and she appreciates good equipment but she is not bowled over by masses of equipment eg 3 pairs of speakers in one room, one with crossovers strategically exposed on the top of the cabinet!
She just wants me finished (is there such a thing?) and to some extent I agree. It’s very easy to chase your personal view of audio perfection but it doesn't help if you invest more time in the quest than enjoying music. This is the point that I find my self at now. I would dearly like to get this system finished and enjoy the music.
The supply of drivers in Australia makes me lean toward Peerless as the Australian distributor is 20mins from home. The cost of freight adds significantly to ordering from the USA. I don’t really like the idea of giving 1.5x the cost of the driver to UPS.
Having got that off my chest I am rather taken by Dan’s low Q sealed Dayton Reference 10" HF in 40L. Is there a way of calculating the ‘boost’ given by a room?
The RSS265HF looks very nice in 40litres with out boost even, Qts=0.538 F3 = 44Hz, F10 about 23Hz. From what I’ve read the room would flatten this out nicely. Qts is under0.6 down to 28litres, I might get away with a smaller box great for the WAF!
Then there are the potential Standing wave issues… maybe I’ll just go and buy a Velodyne SPL-800R
Any comments?
John
What I am trying to do is make some design choices that will work in my circumstances. I have a wife who is rather over my audio obsession, we both love music and she appreciates good equipment but she is not bowled over by masses of equipment eg 3 pairs of speakers in one room, one with crossovers strategically exposed on the top of the cabinet!
She just wants me finished (is there such a thing?) and to some extent I agree. It’s very easy to chase your personal view of audio perfection but it doesn't help if you invest more time in the quest than enjoying music. This is the point that I find my self at now. I would dearly like to get this system finished and enjoy the music.
The supply of drivers in Australia makes me lean toward Peerless as the Australian distributor is 20mins from home. The cost of freight adds significantly to ordering from the USA. I don’t really like the idea of giving 1.5x the cost of the driver to UPS.
Having got that off my chest I am rather taken by Dan’s low Q sealed Dayton Reference 10" HF in 40L. Is there a way of calculating the ‘boost’ given by a room?
The RSS265HF looks very nice in 40litres with out boost even, Qts=0.538 F3 = 44Hz, F10 about 23Hz. From what I’ve read the room would flatten this out nicely. Qts is under0.6 down to 28litres, I might get away with a smaller box great for the WAF!
Then there are the potential Standing wave issues… maybe I’ll just go and buy a Velodyne SPL-800R
Any comments?
John
The performance in that box seems reasonably well matched to the boost you will achieve from your room. But beware, room gain is often dramatically reduced simply by having a door or window ajar, or some other hatch or opening present.
Buying an expensive sub will not necessarily do anything for room modes, the sub must have the right adjustments. A driver servo-feedback system is not the right adjustment.
Buying an expensive sub will not necessarily do anything for room modes, the sub must have the right adjustments. A driver servo-feedback system is not the right adjustment.
richie00boy said:
So the variable boost is really a necessity to achieve balance?
richie00boy said:
The thing that I find most interesting about the Velodyne SPL-800R is the on board DSP. It has 6 Bands of EQ +/- 12dB, and an auto EQ function with the supplied microphone something I may find useful given the dimensions of my room. Appears to be a all in one solution, but I don’t know how effective it would be.
Of course taking out the plastic doesn’t give the same sense of achievement as DIY but I am looking for a quality solution. Budget is reasonably flexible.
John
Go for a plate amp with on board EQ then. Adire's ADA amps have this, and my only complaint about the 1200watt version is the lack of softstart, but on a less powerful version I see no chance for problems. I dont know what's available in Aus. but I'm sure there's something out there with parametric EQ.
The modes in your little room will occur in the upper bass
The modes in your little room will occur in the upper bass
john beresford said:
While some gentle EQing can help, it is not a replacement for better design. The single greatest drawback of using an eq to get flat response is you will only have flat response in one part of the room. Move out of the sweet spot and the eq can make things worse. I think the only way to get uniform response is to use multiple woofers.
If you are using WinISD to model the subwoofer, check out the following article on estimating room/cabin gain.
http://linearteam.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=winisd&action=display&thread=1087022128
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