Hello All, My first post here.
Writing in from India. recently purchased a 1993 release of Spendor classic 3/5, in transit, one of the mid woofer's frame just Obliterated (not sure about newer ones, but older ones had plastic frames).
i am now left with a pair of 3/5 minus 1 mid woofer. i have been looking for replacement speakers for sometime now (no, spendor cant help in anyway, they suggested i move on)..
anyways, considering spendor made their own woofers back then, this has a diameter of 143 MM, which limits OEM parts for most part except 1 - Morel CAW 538 5" Cast Frame Woofer, this looks like it'll fit right in the rebate provided in the speaker cabinet.
the tweeter on this is a Vifa, so was tempted to consider
1. Vifa PL14WJ-09-08 Woofer Mid Range
2. Scanspeak 15W/8434G00 Discovery
unfortunately, both the vifa and scanspeak are 149mm, and the rebate in speaker cabinet is 143mm...so some woodwork/cosmetic damage would need to be done...
so, the suggestion is need is..
a. which speaker should i go with...assuming i cant do much about crossover settings..neither do i understand how this works
b. if the vifa/scanspeak...any suggestions on how ot do a neat job on rebate...
anxiously looking forward to your valuable suggestions..
Thank you!
Writing in from India. recently purchased a 1993 release of Spendor classic 3/5, in transit, one of the mid woofer's frame just Obliterated (not sure about newer ones, but older ones had plastic frames).
i am now left with a pair of 3/5 minus 1 mid woofer. i have been looking for replacement speakers for sometime now (no, spendor cant help in anyway, they suggested i move on)..
anyways, considering spendor made their own woofers back then, this has a diameter of 143 MM, which limits OEM parts for most part except 1 - Morel CAW 538 5" Cast Frame Woofer, this looks like it'll fit right in the rebate provided in the speaker cabinet.
the tweeter on this is a Vifa, so was tempted to consider
1. Vifa PL14WJ-09-08 Woofer Mid Range
2. Scanspeak 15W/8434G00 Discovery
unfortunately, both the vifa and scanspeak are 149mm, and the rebate in speaker cabinet is 143mm...so some woodwork/cosmetic damage would need to be done...
so, the suggestion is need is..
a. which speaker should i go with...assuming i cant do much about crossover settings..neither do i understand how this works
b. if the vifa/scanspeak...any suggestions on how ot do a neat job on rebate...
anxiously looking forward to your valuable suggestions..
Thank you!
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Hi,
firstly could you post some info on the crossover and can you identify the actual Vifa part no for the tweeter?
Is the speaker a ported design, I am assuming not, but just in case?
I believe a vifa, Peerless, Scanspeak or Sb acoustics would work well as a replacement, but we will need to understand box dimensions or internal volume to validate a good candidate driver be it sealed or ported.
Woodworking, a good woodworking shop or manufacturer may be able to re route the new cut-out for you.
With a bit of ingenuity you can place a wood batten inside the cabinet that spans the original hole. You can gently use the original driver external driver mounting holes to screw it in place on the inside of the box, you then can glue or screw a packing piece the thickness of the baffle material, which will give you a surface to work from. If you now define the centre point of the baffle cut-out on the packing piece. You have a new centre to route from. A good router and circle cutting jig should take care of the rest for you. As you rotate the router you will probably need to protect the veneer from possible scratches, so us a sheet of paper or polythene etc to cover the veneer.
Good luck.
firstly could you post some info on the crossover and can you identify the actual Vifa part no for the tweeter?
Is the speaker a ported design, I am assuming not, but just in case?
I believe a vifa, Peerless, Scanspeak or Sb acoustics would work well as a replacement, but we will need to understand box dimensions or internal volume to validate a good candidate driver be it sealed or ported.
Woodworking, a good woodworking shop or manufacturer may be able to re route the new cut-out for you.
With a bit of ingenuity you can place a wood batten inside the cabinet that spans the original hole. You can gently use the original driver external driver mounting holes to screw it in place on the inside of the box, you then can glue or screw a packing piece the thickness of the baffle material, which will give you a surface to work from. If you now define the centre point of the baffle cut-out on the packing piece. You have a new centre to route from. A good router and circle cutting jig should take care of the rest for you. As you rotate the router you will probably need to protect the veneer from possible scratches, so us a sheet of paper or polythene etc to cover the veneer.
Good luck.
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143mm rebate is awkward. I can't think of anything useful here.
Spendor Classic 3/5 Standmount Speakers - HiFi Corner
It's an LS3/5A clone really:
The Peerless 830860 is the nearest style to this polycone driver that I can think of:
Peerless 830860 HDS 134 PPB MidWoofer Speaker
Spendor Classic 3/5 Standmount Speakers - HiFi Corner
It's an LS3/5A clone really:
The Peerless 830860 is the nearest style to this polycone driver that I can think of:
Peerless 830860 HDS 134 PPB MidWoofer Speaker
Looking at System7's links
We may have to re spin the crossover design.
5.25 Kevlar driver, with a Xover at 4.25Khz could prove challenging to say the least.
We could go the other way 5.25 driver made from xxxx up to 2.0-3Khz. that's why we will need tweeter details to see if it can work that low.
We may have to re spin the crossover design.
5.25 Kevlar driver, with a Xover at 4.25Khz could prove challenging to say the least.
We could go the other way 5.25 driver made from xxxx up to 2.0-3Khz. that's why we will need tweeter details to see if it can work that low.
It's a horrible problem. 140mm woofers are impossible to find these days. PMC and Spendor used to use them. The famous old Vifa P13WH would be perfect at 140mm, but obsolete now.
Spendor S3/5se | zStereo
Spendor use 150mm drivers these days:
Spendor SA1 | zStereo
Unless somebody has a better idea, I would try and fit a 830860.
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
That's a 7L box, so close to the spendor. See how it goes without a reflex port. You could always fit one. Good chance the crossover would work.
Other Scan drivers could be tried, but a crossover rebuild I think, this is 9L closed box:
Ergo IX 2-way DIY speaker kit | KJF Audio
Spendor S3/5se | zStereo
Spendor use 150mm drivers these days:
Spendor SA1 | zStereo
Unless somebody has a better idea, I would try and fit a 830860.
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
That's a 7L box, so close to the spendor. See how it goes without a reflex port. You could always fit one. Good chance the crossover would work.
Other Scan drivers could be tried, but a crossover rebuild I think, this is 9L closed box:
Ergo IX 2-way DIY speaker kit | KJF Audio
Thanks very much for your inputs!
It's a sealed box. And yes it's a l3/5 copy, only this one is sideways, has depth of 7inches, width 6.5 inches and height 12 inches...
I have enclosed pics of tweeter and crossover circuit for your review. - Shared album - Jenson Joseph - Google Photos
It's a sealed box. And yes it's a l3/5 copy, only this one is sideways, has depth of 7inches, width 6.5 inches and height 12 inches...
I have enclosed pics of tweeter and crossover circuit for your review. - Shared album - Jenson Joseph - Google Photos
Thanks for the photos.
Looking at them it appears there may be another inductor just visible on the LHS emerging from underneath the foam. So guessing wildly maybe third order on bass for a 4th order acoustic slope around high 4Khz to match Xover spec and kill the kevlar driver sting in the upper reaches of its response and 2nd order around 4Khz on the vifa 20mm tweeter. Have been known to be wrong on many occasions. 🙂
More thinking about woodwork, maybe make a complete piece of MDF or better still ply and glue in place to completely re fill the driver cut-out and re route for a new driver.
you would need to re do the nice Spendor veneer on that one face, and could make it a feature by having a contrasting wood type. I am sure Indian ingenuity, and local tradesmen skills could make something marvellous for you.
If I was smart, and I did get after I had posted 3/5 is the clue to 5 litres or so internal volume. we need to decide on a driver that can straddle being used in an sealed enclosure.
System 7's advice on the peerless picture above is sound. Also worth a consideration is the the little Peerless SDS 5 inch paper cone. It would work sealed and it would allow you to keep the tweeter with maybe just a simple change of attenuation resistor and hopefully just the capacitor with a 3Khz Xover in mind.
Looking at them it appears there may be another inductor just visible on the LHS emerging from underneath the foam. So guessing wildly maybe third order on bass for a 4th order acoustic slope around high 4Khz to match Xover spec and kill the kevlar driver sting in the upper reaches of its response and 2nd order around 4Khz on the vifa 20mm tweeter. Have been known to be wrong on many occasions. 🙂
More thinking about woodwork, maybe make a complete piece of MDF or better still ply and glue in place to completely re fill the driver cut-out and re route for a new driver.
you would need to re do the nice Spendor veneer on that one face, and could make it a feature by having a contrasting wood type. I am sure Indian ingenuity, and local tradesmen skills could make something marvellous for you.
If I was smart, and I did get after I had posted 3/5 is the clue to 5 litres or so internal volume. we need to decide on a driver that can straddle being used in an sealed enclosure.
System 7's advice on the peerless picture above is sound. Also worth a consideration is the the little Peerless SDS 5 inch paper cone. It would work sealed and it would allow you to keep the tweeter with maybe just a simple change of attenuation resistor and hopefully just the capacitor with a 3Khz Xover in mind.
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Thanks Raymond...im a complete novice on measurements and circuits as such...the xover circuit pics, both pictures combined with give left and right view...foam is quite firmly inserted didn't want to break it by fiddling too much..
the veneer is whats melting my heart...to hold these in hand is like holding a piece of art. wood work is just immaculate and firm...the speaker broke in transit, not the box!
depending on what speaker to go with...will decide next course of action..
the veneer is whats melting my heart...to hold these in hand is like holding a piece of art. wood work is just immaculate and firm...the speaker broke in transit, not the box!
depending on what speaker to go with...will decide next course of action..
My experience of user forums is the technical level is so low as to be a waste of my time and effort. These people can't solder, wouldn't know an ohm from a hole in the ground, and are more interested in exotic speaker cables... 😀
Anyhow, have been delving.
This is the tweeter:
Tymphany Tc20sd05-06 3/4" Shielded Dome Tweeter
The 830656 is not much good in this application, too much breakup:
Peerless by Tymphany 830656 5-1/4" Paper Cone SDS Woofer
That leaves the cheapish polycone 830860 with some woodwork, and the Morel CAW 538 which slots right in:
Morel CAW 538 Woofer
Pricey woofer, and the crossover may or may not work as is. But for sure both woofers can be made to work, IMO. In engineering you never know what you will run into. 🙂
Anyhow, have been delving.
This is the tweeter:
Tymphany Tc20sd05-06 3/4" Shielded Dome Tweeter
The 830656 is not much good in this application, too much breakup:
Peerless by Tymphany 830656 5-1/4" Paper Cone SDS Woofer
That leaves the cheapish polycone 830860 with some woodwork, and the Morel CAW 538 which slots right in:
Morel CAW 538 Woofer
Pricey woofer, and the crossover may or may not work as is. But for sure both woofers can be made to work, IMO. In engineering you never know what you will run into. 🙂
Hi system, I read your note on this forum which made quite an impression, likening x'overs to fingerprint!
So, when you say may or may not work, is it more about the frequency curve or chances are speaker may sound worse... How bad can it go...
Also, leaving the size aside for a minute, would the vifa driver be superior to the morel or pretty much same..
So, when you say may or may not work, is it more about the frequency curve or chances are speaker may sound worse... How bad can it go...
Also, leaving the size aside for a minute, would the vifa driver be superior to the morel or pretty much same..
I don't think either will sound bad slotted right in, but you really should dissect the crossover to make a guess. Hard to say which is better. Different styles.
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
Morels are a different sort of thing but also doable, here being a similar MW144:
Morel MW144 5" Woofer Damped Polymer Composite Cone 8 ohm
https://www.madisound.com/library/stacks/MW1448-MDT29-4.pdf
I wouldn't lose any sleep over the exact tweeter. All pretty similar. But this is a very small speaker around 7L. Better at voices than bass. Can't be hard to modify the rebate with a chisel and file and saw. And you could add a reflex.
Main thing is to have a go, IMO. Any problems can be fixed if the drivers are good. And these are. We all started as beginners. Then you can tell us ALL ABOUT IT! 😀
Peerless HDS PPB 830860
Morels are a different sort of thing but also doable, here being a similar MW144:
Morel MW144 5" Woofer Damped Polymer Composite Cone 8 ohm
https://www.madisound.com/library/stacks/MW1448-MDT29-4.pdf
I wouldn't lose any sleep over the exact tweeter. All pretty similar. But this is a very small speaker around 7L. Better at voices than bass. Can't be hard to modify the rebate with a chisel and file and saw. And you could add a reflex.
Main thing is to have a go, IMO. Any problems can be fixed if the drivers are good. And these are. We all started as beginners. Then you can tell us ALL ABOUT IT! 😀