Help please, i need to modify a 3 way car crossover (x6)

I cleaned off some glue residue of the backplate and now the tracing is visible i see what you wanted. Now from what i saw on a website calculating crossover components i need 10uf and an air coil change too. 4 component changes in total c1 c2 and l1 and l2.
 
You have to change two capacitors and two coils at least to change the frequency You probably think if it is 10x you simply take 5x and have half the frequency?
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. The formulas you can find all ignore that a speaker is no resistor with a fixed value. They are useless with a real speaker. That is why you will never find the values from such a formula a real speaker construction.
The best way for you is to do what "they all do" and go active with the drivers. Active x-overs are cheap and plenty, used and new. Even DSP's (that is what those use that have really well sounding gear), are dead cheap, compared to the passive coils and capacitors for audio you will need to try out different combinations.

Something you do not realize, any driver has to be tuned at the position it is at in a car. There is no universal x-over. Any installation leads to car specific values. Multiply that with all drivers on the market, because any driver has his own impedance (resistance) curve.
What SONY sells you with these drivers is basically protecting them from getting destroyed, but miles away from what the material can sound like. If tuned right. That is what they all do. Tuning it in situ.

You don't want to hear this because you have been told before, I know.
 
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You have to change two capacitors and two coils at least to change the frequency You probably think if it is 10x you simply take 5x and have half the frequency?
hello turbowatch, thank you for your input. No i dont think that way, unfortunately i am not able to think anything threfore i dont take anything in account before double checking with people that know what they are talking about.

This is the website where i did a generic calculation based on the crossover points i wanted.

https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/ApcSpeakerCrossover/#google_vignette

But even IF the calculations of this website are correct i need help from some of you guys here before i go and solder everything out. Its electronics, not woodwork after all...

For the Front 3 way set up of my car i am going active with a good DSP, a very good amp and good drivers too. The front tweeters are probably going to come from home audio sector, the satori TW29 Ring Dome Neodym tweeters. Midrange, brax ML3 or Scan speak 12M. I am undecided, i will buy this week.

These sony components are going to be used in the rear doors, i dont want to go active for rear doors. pointless. A crossover, one channel from 40 to 23khz and i am good to go. I will do also a passive system in a less demanding less audiophile set up in the car of my father in law with only 4 speaker channels in total and that is why i need to do this crossover modification for 6 crossovers in total.
You don't want to hear this because you have been told before, I know.
elaborate! 🙂
What SONY sells you with these drivers is basically protecting them from getting destroyed, but miles away from what the material can sound like. If tuned right. That is what they all do. Tuning it in situ.
On a german forum where i am also active a sony employee is ditching the crossover because it is bad to him and he is also going active for front and is using some maestro crossovers that he had laying at home by the way...so i am not the only one. Another guy who is a professional installer in england said the same thing about these specific crossovers. Who am i to correct sony, but others did...with greater success specially the ones going active, the drivers themselves are apparently of very good quality for the price. T

hing is, i am convinced i can make these crossovers work and costing me less (specially for 6 crossover boards) changing some components on the board compared to buying 6 new boards... noone apparently likes that 7500hz crossover of the midrange. I could live with the 1000hz midbass high pass personally. The 165mm driver is totally capable of that ofcourse and the i dont care that much, but those midranges playing up to 7500, nah.
 
It's not a Sony! Nor it was intended for use with their ES components series. Are you aware of that?!
It doesn't matter. Your plan doesn't work without the drivers installed in a car, a microfone to measure the response and a. a good and quite complicated x-over simulation program or b. a huge box full of different coils, capacitors and resistors.
If you have an exceptional hearing ability, you can get away with b. only.
I know you have heard this before and don't like the idea. Ears & b. is the most expensive option, by the way.
 
I know you have haerd this before and don't like the idea. Ears & b. is the most expensive option, by the way.
You are correct, i dont like that idea, in fact i love it. Why do you speak with such confidence? 🙂

I already have my measuring microphones ready to be used. They cant wait and they look up to me like little dogs wanting to go for a walk, yet i am letting them collect some more dust. I need everything put in place my friend, all components on the right place and correct to my needs. Alexander won wars because he had a perfect supply chain, not because he had strong soldiers. I need the right gear before i start an Ein/Ausbauschlacht.
 
I'd have to agree with others, this will only be a mess in the end with your current path of modification.

Without mounting the drivers and measurements, it's a total crap shoot. You obviously don't understand what's involved. Good luck.
Goodmorning, i do understand what is involved and its not a crapshot. The drivers will be installed, measured and the possibility to amplify them actively will be there for measuring purposes only. The end result will be a passive system. What i am trying to know is not a pre defined crossover point but rather knowing the circuit of the board and what goes where so i can then later on swap components, capacitors and coils on the board individually. One sony user wanted the tweeter crossed at 4200hz, the other at 3500.
 
Yes, but without measurements, who really knows what passive components would be needed, or if any of it would even fit on that board, or if you'll need other components added to meet the target slopes, or if any of it really needs modified. I mean, just because some guy states he doesn't like that crossover for his application, in his car, under his circumstances, doesn't mean any of it will be of any importance to you.

Therefore, why I stated you have no clue what's really involved in what your doing.

I get trying to learn, but you've put the cart before the horse.

Not sure what the end game is, but if it's a fantastic sounding car audio system, then all that stuff in the rear doors is pointless. If it's just to have a loud system to impress, then install as is, because changing the crossovers is moot.
 
hello nixi, Its not an AMT, playing "low" is not a problem. any 1 inch silkdome can play 3k and up easily.... yes the "sony users" have experience. One of them is a competitor in a scandinavian country the other a big name installer in the UK who is also a competitor in SQ. Both of them run their sonys active set up and have disliked the original crossover. Thats why noone can help me. None of the SQ guys messes with passive crossovers like i want to and i had to beg for help else where...reading for 5 consecutive days on crossovers still made me understand much more but i dont feel like doing the wrong experiment without asking the home audio guys who are all in quality component passive crossovers.

@6thplanet , outcome is not a competing SQ car. but neither an SPL air moving device like i like to call those cars. Since you are interested, the amp rack will be in the back and i will be using not only different DSP presets but two different cabling options for a very unique differential rear fill but that is another subject. As stated, i am looking to do this mod for 6 crossovers and two cars. I had such a laugh when i read your comment. You remind me of my mom when i started my buying spree in january, she asked me "you are not going to be one of those guys with those loud cars on red lights, arent you?".
 
I don't know what to tell you. Some 1" tweeters can't work very low, some can. Try to measure the frequency range and impedance of those drivers. Just to know at least something. You won't get an answer this way. If you have a DSP, maybe some theoretical crossover of the second order, say Linkwiz-Reilly, can work, and then iron out the range. There is the issue of the driver phase, you can get holes in the response that will be difficult to iron out.

As far as driver durability is concerned. this original crossover is better. I don't believe it's optimal either, but it gives drivers a better chance to survive. I would keep it, and deal with the rest with DSP. I think that DSP is necessary in a car anyway.
 
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