I bought a pair of Peter's "Reality 3D" loudspeakers. For the money, they were very well made with high end Scanspeak drivers and a very sophisticated passive crossover (I used to design speakers and I believe I can speak with some insight). While they are not as revealing as my main Quad 988s, they cost only slightly more than the value of the parts. (In case you've never done it, stuffing a speaker to prepare for sale--crossover building, wire preparation, dampening material & driver installation along with placing the sock, all without marring the finish--can take a few hours.)
I exchanged many cordial emails with Peter and feel he is a very nice gentleman both professionally and personally. I know very little about his amps other than what I've read on his web site, but his speakers are outstanding values.
Robert Jones
I exchanged many cordial emails with Peter and feel he is a very nice gentleman both professionally and personally. I know very little about his amps other than what I've read on his web site, but his speakers are outstanding values.
Robert Jones
hi.
the discussion i started (or tried to start) on av reality board was deleted in no time and he posted a funny lie about it (you can find it titled abuse of the board).
im excluded from the board and he does not want discussions about the sound quality of the icepower amps there
right after i had several very hostile emails from him and this is what i refer to, dont expect to see them here, ok?
i agree that a serious comparison between several types of class-d / pwm amplifiers would be interesting and thats exactly the reason for my original posting.
we made some here (i dont claim them to be unbiased or such) just a bit interesting , we know pretty well the tripath boards as i/we have worked with them for a couple of years, we borrowed a couple of icepower 500 boards and invited the designer for a comparison.
he was kind of surprised (he also thought that better specs is the same as better sound) as it was obvious that our amps simply sound better , more open , more transient etc.
they also lacked the dull and distant sound reported by other reviewers of the icpower amps.
i do have a bit of experiece with speakers but thats another story.
what are the prices of the av mono and stereo amps?
bye karsten madsen - www.cadaudio.dk
ps. those of you that are not banned could take up the discussion on the av site
in my mind banning everybody interested in comparing the product or technology to others or discussing the sound quality in general will make the board even smaller in no time
the discussion i started (or tried to start) on av reality board was deleted in no time and he posted a funny lie about it (you can find it titled abuse of the board).
im excluded from the board and he does not want discussions about the sound quality of the icepower amps there
right after i had several very hostile emails from him and this is what i refer to, dont expect to see them here, ok?
i agree that a serious comparison between several types of class-d / pwm amplifiers would be interesting and thats exactly the reason for my original posting.
we made some here (i dont claim them to be unbiased or such) just a bit interesting , we know pretty well the tripath boards as i/we have worked with them for a couple of years, we borrowed a couple of icepower 500 boards and invited the designer for a comparison.
he was kind of surprised (he also thought that better specs is the same as better sound) as it was obvious that our amps simply sound better , more open , more transient etc.
they also lacked the dull and distant sound reported by other reviewers of the icpower amps.
i do have a bit of experiece with speakers but thats another story.
what are the prices of the av mono and stereo amps?
bye karsten madsen - www.cadaudio.dk
ps. those of you that are not banned could take up the discussion on the av site
in my mind banning everybody interested in comparing the product or technology to others or discussing the sound quality in general will make the board even smaller in no time
k.madsen, you are not allowed to add links on my website. You were only trying were to sell your own product - now you are out.
You have never heard the eAR amplifiers and therefore you can absolutely not comment on anything.
Sure the well known PWM principle is working, but as you did write to me your amplifiers are full of distortion and should be compared to "musical" tube amplifiers. Sure, many do love the distortion of tube amplifiers, but distortion is not the purpose of my product, the eAR amplifier is distortion-free.
The eAR amplifier is said to be the best amplifier ever auditioned - this comment is from one of the most respected High-End Audio reviewers in Scandinavia. He has auditioned several amplifiers and he is not selling or using old PWM amplifier principles.
Peter - Acoustic Reality.
You have never heard the eAR amplifiers and therefore you can absolutely not comment on anything.
Sure the well known PWM principle is working, but as you did write to me your amplifiers are full of distortion and should be compared to "musical" tube amplifiers. Sure, many do love the distortion of tube amplifiers, but distortion is not the purpose of my product, the eAR amplifier is distortion-free.
The eAR amplifier is said to be the best amplifier ever auditioned - this comment is from one of the most respected High-End Audio reviewers in Scandinavia. He has auditioned several amplifiers and he is not selling or using old PWM amplifier principles.
Peter - Acoustic Reality.
hi.
ok i dont mind discussing here with you , but what i do mind is that you tell lies,
i signed my posting as i do normally , i think its fair to say that i represent a company but this is not at all what you said in your emil(s) to me , remember?
you said we do not want to discuss the quality of our amplifiers on our board and we do not want comments from dealers, or other companies on our board.
i did not write that our amplifiers are "full of distortion" and "they should be compared to tube amplifiers" , this is also simply not true.
what i did write was aksing if you had compared your amplifiers with other types as tripath etc, and if you had an interest in doing so (feel free to post my original posting but do not change it or make your own version)
one can only speculate why you come up with stories and lies like this , let me say that i only wish to discuss on a basis where neither of us tell lies about each other and what the other has said or written.
i do think i can say something about the icepower 500 modules as i know them pretty well , this is all i have commented about , i have not heard your amplifiers and i cant comment on them as such , i do think you say you are using the icepower 500 module and you do have a direct link to the b&o website for reference.
correct me if im wrong.
k madsen - www.cadaudio.dk
ps. the tester you refer to (i asked for his name and as with all other direct questions i had no repply so far) is he perhaps from high fidelity , the danish magazine that has given icepower outstanding reviews (not to mention pages and pages with direct advertising from b&o) , let me put this a little into context , they are selling the modules and as such i doubt they (or he) could be totally independant, right?
ok i dont mind discussing here with you , but what i do mind is that you tell lies,
i signed my posting as i do normally , i think its fair to say that i represent a company but this is not at all what you said in your emil(s) to me , remember?
you said we do not want to discuss the quality of our amplifiers on our board and we do not want comments from dealers, or other companies on our board.
i did not write that our amplifiers are "full of distortion" and "they should be compared to tube amplifiers" , this is also simply not true.
what i did write was aksing if you had compared your amplifiers with other types as tripath etc, and if you had an interest in doing so (feel free to post my original posting but do not change it or make your own version)
one can only speculate why you come up with stories and lies like this , let me say that i only wish to discuss on a basis where neither of us tell lies about each other and what the other has said or written.
i do think i can say something about the icepower 500 modules as i know them pretty well , this is all i have commented about , i have not heard your amplifiers and i cant comment on them as such , i do think you say you are using the icepower 500 module and you do have a direct link to the b&o website for reference.
correct me if im wrong.
k madsen - www.cadaudio.dk
ps. the tester you refer to (i asked for his name and as with all other direct questions i had no repply so far) is he perhaps from high fidelity , the danish magazine that has given icepower outstanding reviews (not to mention pages and pages with direct advertising from b&o) , let me put this a little into context , they are selling the modules and as such i doubt they (or he) could be totally independant, right?
§I should ignore your posts, because you are not writing the true.
k.madsen, you are selling a product. Therefore I do find your public attack very strange and certainly very strange that you are posting on my website. And you are still attacking...
now using this board!
An important correction of your post:
Last fall HIGHfidelity did get 50 of the ICEpower evaluation boards to sell without making a single coin on them, that's all, they do not sell ICEpower, the boards were sold immediately, no more to be sold. HIGHfidelity do not sell ICEpower and is 100% independed. It is true that several audiophiles and reviewers do love ICEpower - those who don't sell products, but have auditioned other switching amplifiers and ordinary PWM amplifiers too - including evaluation boards - final products - several High-End amplifiers.
The eAR amplifier is a complete and final product and not an uncompleted do-it-yourself product - you can not comment on anything.
In a few months you can read reviews of the eAR amplifier - it will be compared with others of course.
k.madsen, you are selling a product. Therefore I do find your public attack very strange and certainly very strange that you are posting on my website. And you are still attacking...
now using this board!
An important correction of your post:
Last fall HIGHfidelity did get 50 of the ICEpower evaluation boards to sell without making a single coin on them, that's all, they do not sell ICEpower, the boards were sold immediately, no more to be sold. HIGHfidelity do not sell ICEpower and is 100% independed. It is true that several audiophiles and reviewers do love ICEpower - those who don't sell products, but have auditioned other switching amplifiers and ordinary PWM amplifiers too - including evaluation boards - final products - several High-End amplifiers.
The eAR amplifier is a complete and final product and not an uncompleted do-it-yourself product - you can not comment on anything.
In a few months you can read reviews of the eAR amplifier - it will be compared with others of course.
hi.
i know this was from the start a thread about tripath boards, for evaluation of these and icepower modules see;
www.classd.org (among others).
about the icepower modules;
>Performance figures are very respectable (among the best on the market), though the sound performance is found to be less than high fidelity>
>Good reasons not to use these chips :
Sound quality is below standard >
i think you could call him a bit more independant than hifidelity magazine or av reality (i dont think he sells them....)
making a self proclaimed high-end amplifier with these $60 not-so-high-end modules could take a lot of hot air im afraid and i can easily understand that suggestions about comparisons to other types or discussion about the sound quality compared to others are not welcome at all
again i dont think i want to use much time on correcting old lies as new ones seem to appear
im attacking you ?, hmm, i think it has been the other way round untill now.
bye k madsen
ps. i can see that classd org listened to same kind of icepower modules as we did
i know this was from the start a thread about tripath boards, for evaluation of these and icepower modules see;
www.classd.org (among others).
about the icepower modules;
>Performance figures are very respectable (among the best on the market), though the sound performance is found to be less than high fidelity>
>Good reasons not to use these chips :
Sound quality is below standard >
i think you could call him a bit more independant than hifidelity magazine or av reality
(i dont think he sells them....)making a self proclaimed high-end amplifier with these $60 not-so-high-end modules could take a lot of hot air im afraid and i can easily understand that suggestions about comparisons to other types or discussion about the sound quality compared to others are not welcome at all
again i dont think i want to use much time on correcting old lies as new ones seem to appear
im attacking you ?, hmm, i think it has been the other way round untill now.
bye k madsen
ps. i can see that classd org listened to same kind of icepower modules as we did
This is what audiophile who have heard the eAR amplifiers are saying:
The sound of the eAR amplifier compared to the ICEpower evaluation board is like day and night.
How the amplifier is made is my secret and sure you would like to know how to get true high-end sound from the amplifier. As said by in-depended listeners who own $10.000 amplifiers the eAR amplifier is the best amplifier they have ever auditioned.
The eAR amplifier is MUCH more than ICEpower modules – else there were no reason to make the amplifiers. If I could buy ICEpower modules to the price that you did say I would be VERY happy, but I do certainly have to pay much more – all OEM manufacturers have to do that and you must buy 1000 units.
The modules are still the cheapest part of the amplifier. For example power supply is very expensive and so is the cabinet.
k.madsen, I do really don’t understand why you are posting comments about an amplifier that you have never heard. It seems that you can’t sell your own products and now you are desperate. I do think you should visit a psychologist.
Kind regards
Peter
By the way: Their tests were based on the first generation ICEpower. I am using the second generation - completely another product.
AND
k.madsen, you have never heard the second generation
The sound of the eAR amplifier compared to the ICEpower evaluation board is like day and night.
How the amplifier is made is my secret and sure you would like to know how to get true high-end sound from the amplifier. As said by in-depended listeners who own $10.000 amplifiers the eAR amplifier is the best amplifier they have ever auditioned.
The eAR amplifier is MUCH more than ICEpower modules – else there were no reason to make the amplifiers. If I could buy ICEpower modules to the price that you did say I would be VERY happy, but I do certainly have to pay much more – all OEM manufacturers have to do that and you must buy 1000 units.
The modules are still the cheapest part of the amplifier. For example power supply is very expensive and so is the cabinet.
k.madsen, I do really don’t understand why you are posting comments about an amplifier that you have never heard. It seems that you can’t sell your own products and now you are desperate. I do think you should visit a psychologist.
Kind regards
Peter
By the way: Their tests were based on the first generation ICEpower. I am using the second generation - completely another product.
AND
k.madsen, you have never heard the second generation
I've been following CAD Audio's PWM amps, along with Tripath, LC Audio and ICEPower for a while now, waiting for someone to compare these seemingly very similar products. The only thing I've seen regarding the CAD Audio amp comes from K Madsen's own website:
"Recent listening tests confirmed that the sound quality ot our boards is the best of the class-d amplifiers compared."
I have to say that this doesn't make for a very sound argument. Which amps were compared? Who made the comparisons? How was the sound quality "better" than the others? How much "better" was it?
What proof do you have for the claims you are making? Can you provide links to independent reviewers' reviews of your amp against several other class d amps? Even if you could, I hope that we would all be sophisticated enough to realize that what sounds "best" to one person may not sound "best" to another.
I've seen k madsen slam other companies' products repeatedly and unashamedly on this board and others (particularly the LC Audio amp on DIY Cable's board), to the point that no matter how good his product is, I have no interest in doing business with him. Just my opinion.
brad
"Recent listening tests confirmed that the sound quality ot our boards is the best of the class-d amplifiers compared."
I have to say that this doesn't make for a very sound argument. Which amps were compared? Who made the comparisons? How was the sound quality "better" than the others? How much "better" was it?
What proof do you have for the claims you are making? Can you provide links to independent reviewers' reviews of your amp against several other class d amps? Even if you could, I hope that we would all be sophisticated enough to realize that what sounds "best" to one person may not sound "best" to another.
I've seen k madsen slam other companies' products repeatedly and unashamedly on this board and others (particularly the LC Audio amp on DIY Cable's board), to the point that no matter how good his product is, I have no interest in doing business with him. Just my opinion.
brad
k.madsen is now attacking our products - even when he has never heard or seen or products in reality. Therefore we would like to explain the differences between the eAR amplifier and the evaluation boards sold to manufactures and hobbyists and the difference of the module/board tested by the classD.org.
The eAR amplifiers contain the completely NEW second generation of ICEpower with optimised layout and lifetime improvements. All evaluation boards have an undersized power supply and there are no circuits to avoid EMI radiation.
All international EMI requirements were satisfied a long time ago, but the requirements were not enough for us. The best and most expensive main power filter is used and all inputs/outputs from the amplifier have EMI 'killer' components. The ground layout of the whole amplifier has been optimised for a very long time - the eAR amplifier is completely free of hum and noise – the EMI has been significantly reduced - all internal wiring have been optimised too. The outputs to the speakers contain an extra very high efficient EMI filter – even available with special custom-specified Jensen capacitors. The cabinet is made of metal and therefore it will stop EMI radiation. Because the cabinet materials consist of aluminium and stainless steel there is no magnetic radiation to the components inside the amplifier.
The eAR amplifiers contain a completely oversized capacitor "bank", which is designed to hold up in continuous operation. This is not only the 80 Volt capacitor bank, which is oversized, but the small signal voltage capacitor bank is extremely oversized too - minimum five times more than recommended. The eAR amplifier has build-in DC filter to avoid hum from the high quality transformer too.
The cabinet of the eAR amplifier is a heat sink itself - even when it is not necessary. The eAR amplifier is ice-cold on very high volumes.
With all the described improvements you cannot compare the sound of the eAR amplifier to any evaluation board. It is certainly not a DIY product, but SMD components are used everywhere too. The sound performance of the eAR amplifiers is true audiophile and you will hear attack and details that you have never heard before. The sound performance of the eAR amplifier compared to the evaluation boards is like day and night. After more than a year of development and listening tests we do feel it is time to release the eAR power amplifiers.
Remember:
If our customers are not 100% satisfied, then they can return the amplifier. We have full money back guarantee.
Kind regards
www.Acoustic-Reality.com
Edited: Some spelling errors removed (twice).
The eAR amplifiers contain the completely NEW second generation of ICEpower with optimised layout and lifetime improvements. All evaluation boards have an undersized power supply and there are no circuits to avoid EMI radiation.
All international EMI requirements were satisfied a long time ago, but the requirements were not enough for us. The best and most expensive main power filter is used and all inputs/outputs from the amplifier have EMI 'killer' components. The ground layout of the whole amplifier has been optimised for a very long time - the eAR amplifier is completely free of hum and noise – the EMI has been significantly reduced - all internal wiring have been optimised too. The outputs to the speakers contain an extra very high efficient EMI filter – even available with special custom-specified Jensen capacitors. The cabinet is made of metal and therefore it will stop EMI radiation. Because the cabinet materials consist of aluminium and stainless steel there is no magnetic radiation to the components inside the amplifier.
The eAR amplifiers contain a completely oversized capacitor "bank", which is designed to hold up in continuous operation. This is not only the 80 Volt capacitor bank, which is oversized, but the small signal voltage capacitor bank is extremely oversized too - minimum five times more than recommended. The eAR amplifier has build-in DC filter to avoid hum from the high quality transformer too.
The cabinet of the eAR amplifier is a heat sink itself - even when it is not necessary. The eAR amplifier is ice-cold on very high volumes.
With all the described improvements you cannot compare the sound of the eAR amplifier to any evaluation board. It is certainly not a DIY product, but SMD components are used everywhere too. The sound performance of the eAR amplifiers is true audiophile and you will hear attack and details that you have never heard before. The sound performance of the eAR amplifier compared to the evaluation boards is like day and night. After more than a year of development and listening tests we do feel it is time to release the eAR power amplifiers.
Remember:
If our customers are not 100% satisfied, then they can return the amplifier. We have full money back guarantee.
Kind regards
www.Acoustic-Reality.com
Edited: Some spelling errors removed (twice).
dc said:
I can only say that i have the same feeling as brad. A lot of times when K Madsen writes, it is only negative words about other companies.
Maybe you should look at your posting from the last half year K Madsen. The only things you got out of this is a lot of people who does not like you at all.
I think when you go looking at LC audio pages you will not find comment about other companies "creditcard size" Class D amps! You know what i am talking about!
Sonny
Enough!!!
Since I'm the one that originally started this thread, I think I can spend a couple of words to terminate this futile dispute between commercial product manufacturers and redirect this discussion.
I don't really care what these two guys might be saying about their own products and/or competitors'. It's quite clear that their opinions are biased if not argumentative at best. I'll start considering these products when unbiased members of this board and/or internationally renowned magazines will express their opinions on them (possibly in a widely spoken/understood language - no offense to anybody, but HiFi magazines in Swahili are not really popular around the world).
Look at the kind of prestige, worldwide recognized expertise and authority Mr. Pass is enjoying. Certainly this doesn't come from petty discussions with competitors over whose IC sounds best.
This leads me to a comparison with the Tripath boards. At least, some commercial products based on this board have been tested and reviewed by very well-known magazines. One of these amps is actually based on the evalution board with very few modifications. This is the reason why I started this project.
Getting now to the original subject of this thread, here are the news.
Since I don't have all the equipment needed to perform some of the procedures that were suggested by real contributors (thank you all, BTW!), I've now sent the whole amp to the company in the UK which I bought the board from.
They've been very cooperative and helpful from day first, and I do hope they'll be able to sort things out for me.
Once the amp will be working, I'm planning to compare it against the other two power amps I own, an MBL and a Classé. I'll post the impressions on this board, should anybody be interested (I'm not involved with any of these brands - rest assured!
BTW, my amp has some more tweaks on the top of RLJones implementation. Based on what I had read around, I decided to build an overkill power supply, and here are the components:
a) two 600VA each heavily shielded toroidal transformers putting out 54 V AC
b) Two rectifying bridges (one for each rail) built with discrete ultra fast, soft recovery diodes from IR, each paralleled with a Wima cap
c) One big capacitor (22,000uF) per rail immediately after the rectifying section feeding into
d) the chokes advised by RLJones and, finally,
e) Five 10,000 capacitors per rail, each of which bypassed by a small Wima cap.
IMHO this should be the best possible setup...too bad it doesnt work (yet!)
Since I'm the one that originally started this thread, I think I can spend a couple of words to terminate this futile dispute between commercial product manufacturers and redirect this discussion.
I don't really care what these two guys might be saying about their own products and/or competitors'. It's quite clear that their opinions are biased if not argumentative at best. I'll start considering these products when unbiased members of this board and/or internationally renowned magazines will express their opinions on them (possibly in a widely spoken/understood language - no offense to anybody, but HiFi magazines in Swahili are not really popular around the world).
Look at the kind of prestige, worldwide recognized expertise and authority Mr. Pass is enjoying. Certainly this doesn't come from petty discussions with competitors over whose IC sounds best.
This leads me to a comparison with the Tripath boards. At least, some commercial products based on this board have been tested and reviewed by very well-known magazines. One of these amps is actually based on the evalution board with very few modifications. This is the reason why I started this project.
Getting now to the original subject of this thread, here are the news.
Since I don't have all the equipment needed to perform some of the procedures that were suggested by real contributors (thank you all, BTW!), I've now sent the whole amp to the company in the UK which I bought the board from.
They've been very cooperative and helpful from day first, and I do hope they'll be able to sort things out for me.
Once the amp will be working, I'm planning to compare it against the other two power amps I own, an MBL and a Classé. I'll post the impressions on this board, should anybody be interested (I'm not involved with any of these brands - rest assured!
BTW, my amp has some more tweaks on the top of RLJones implementation. Based on what I had read around, I decided to build an overkill power supply, and here are the components:
a) two 600VA each heavily shielded toroidal transformers putting out 54 V AC
b) Two rectifying bridges (one for each rail) built with discrete ultra fast, soft recovery diodes from IR, each paralleled with a Wima cap
c) One big capacitor (22,000uF) per rail immediately after the rectifying section feeding into
d) the chokes advised by RLJones and, finally,
e) Five 10,000 capacitors per rail, each of which bypassed by a small Wima cap.
IMHO this should be the best possible setup...too bad it doesnt work (yet!)
How did you do it?
Having spoken to Profusion folks (extremely helpful and courteous), they told me that most likely the board in my stup were self-oscillating, thus driving themselves into self distruction by blowing the output devices.
In their opinion, this has to do with the length of the cables from the power supply and/or the fact that the wires out of the input transformer were too long and not shielded.
RLJones and anybody that implemented this board, how did you do it?
In my setup the length of the cables out of the filter capacitor bank is a 2-3 inches longer than the cables that were originally attached to the board.
I've twisted together the wires coming out of the input transformers, but other than that I haven't shortened them, nor have I found a way for shielding them.
I've got both balanced and unbalanced inputs. Following Jensen's folks suggestion, I've connected the "ground" of the RCA connector neither to the chassis ground nor to pin 1 of the balanced connector, but to one of the two "live" pins of it, where the input wires of the transformer are connected. The live (central) pole of the RCA is connected to the other live pin of the balanced input connector.
Do you think this is fine? Is this the way you did it? Any suggestions?
Thanks to anybody who can help!
Having spoken to Profusion folks (extremely helpful and courteous), they told me that most likely the board in my stup were self-oscillating, thus driving themselves into self distruction by blowing the output devices.
In their opinion, this has to do with the length of the cables from the power supply and/or the fact that the wires out of the input transformer were too long and not shielded.
RLJones and anybody that implemented this board, how did you do it?
In my setup the length of the cables out of the filter capacitor bank is a 2-3 inches longer than the cables that were originally attached to the board.
I've twisted together the wires coming out of the input transformers, but other than that I haven't shortened them, nor have I found a way for shielding them.
I've got both balanced and unbalanced inputs. Following Jensen's folks suggestion, I've connected the "ground" of the RCA connector neither to the chassis ground nor to pin 1 of the balanced connector, but to one of the two "live" pins of it, where the input wires of the transformer are connected. The live (central) pole of the RCA is connected to the other live pin of the balanced input connector.
Do you think this is fine? Is this the way you did it? Any suggestions?
Thanks to anybody who can help!
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