Howdy y'all.
I built a set of Frugelhorns last year, my first full range speakers. I was pleasantly surprised by how nice they sound. They've got me wanting to build something new. I don't know my way around the full range world, and I need some help with selecting a design to build next.
These new speakers are going into my home office, a small room about 13' by 12' with standard 8' ceilings. Room layout dictates that they be placed near the corners of the room and tight up against the rear walls. This is probably not an ideal arrangement for serious listening, but it's what I have to work with.
I vaguely remember reading about designs that somehow use wall or corner loading to some positive effect. Could that work for my arrangement?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Can you suggest a good design for me, or maybe point me in the right direction for further reading and research?
I built a set of Frugelhorns last year, my first full range speakers. I was pleasantly surprised by how nice they sound. They've got me wanting to build something new. I don't know my way around the full range world, and I need some help with selecting a design to build next.
These new speakers are going into my home office, a small room about 13' by 12' with standard 8' ceilings. Room layout dictates that they be placed near the corners of the room and tight up against the rear walls. This is probably not an ideal arrangement for serious listening, but it's what I have to work with.
I vaguely remember reading about designs that somehow use wall or corner loading to some positive effect. Could that work for my arrangement?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Can you suggest a good design for me, or maybe point me in the right direction for further reading and research?
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Most of the design benefit from being close to a wall, bass wise... At the detriment of imaging.
Best small speaker that can be placed in a corner is the TABAQ, IMHO.
You will get about the same bass extension you already have with the Frugelhorn, but in a smaller package.
Best small speaker that can be placed in a corner is the TABAQ, IMHO.
You will get about the same bass extension you already have with the Frugelhorn, but in a smaller package.
I built the Poplar for the Alpair 10.3 last year and enjoyed them -- more than the FH3 that they replaced. It is a quick and simple build and worked well off of pretty low power at my listening levels. I think the plans cost a small amount. Disclaimer, I am a hobbyist tinkerer, not an audiophile.
what amplifies have you used with the Poplar/A10.3? What would you recommend?
What are the limitations, in your experience, of this setup?
What are the limitations, in your experience, of this setup?
I tried a push pull 6l6gc with about 30W or so of power and a single-ended 2A3 with a few watts. Preferred the push pull and used it for a few months until I put bigger speakers back in the lounge. My room is bigger than yours, but I don't listen at loud volumes either.
Limitations: Lots of people rave about the bass from the 10.3, but I've been won over by WAW sort of designs. I now prefer, like many others here, a full range crossed at a few hundred Hz to a dedicated bass driver. I use a miniDSP hd and big solid-state amp modules to power the bass and tubes for the full range. I find, when speakers are right against the wall, that sealed bass with eq correction is easiest for me to get to my liking. As Perceval said, these types of designs do benefit from boundary loading.
Limitations: Lots of people rave about the bass from the 10.3, but I've been won over by WAW sort of designs. I now prefer, like many others here, a full range crossed at a few hundred Hz to a dedicated bass driver. I use a miniDSP hd and big solid-state amp modules to power the bass and tubes for the full range. I find, when speakers are right against the wall, that sealed bass with eq correction is easiest for me to get to my liking. As Perceval said, these types of designs do benefit from boundary loading.
I did some reading on BIB designs last night. They're meant to use to use wall and ceiling for bass enhancement, right? How would a giant BIB for a 6" or 8" driver sound in a small room?
How well would the Lotus design sound pushed up against the wall? That would look impressive, if nothing else.
How about a Pensil or MicroTower with a CHR-70 driver? Being small and skinny, I could probably pull them off the back wall by maybe a foot or so and still fit in the space. Would that sound better?
How well would the Lotus design sound pushed up against the wall? That would look impressive, if nothing else.
How about a Pensil or MicroTower with a CHR-70 driver? Being small and skinny, I could probably pull them off the back wall by maybe a foot or so and still fit in the space. Would that sound better?
A BiB and a Pensil are pretty simple builds. You buy a driver that would work in both and try each one to see which one you like better. Mark Audio drivers are built specifically as a full-range driver. You really can't go wrong with them. What kind of budget are you thinking?
Mike
Mike
I don't have a firm budget. Let's say no more than $500.
I think most of the designs I've seen would come in well under that.
I think most of the designs I've seen would come in well under that.
Tabaq is a good should. Maybe take that principle and design your own? Plenty of good drivers about. Maybe try a different cone material from MA? We can all help in the design process.
What is the design principle that makes Tabaq work?
To my uneducated eye it's a tall skinny box with a slotted port at the bottom and the driver about 1/3rd down from the top. Pensil looks the same, except maybe the driver is a bit higher up in the box.
I assume the height of the box is significant to the design. And the volume. And the port size/shape. Driver size and parameters determine all of these, yes?
TABAQ is an MLTL, designed using software from the TL master himself, Martin King. Read his papers on the subject. Basic concept in my limited understanding is that the TL carries the 180° out of phase output from the back of the driver away from the driver, and damping in the cabinet soaks up the highs and mids, reducing phase cancellation at those frequencies. The lower frequencies are then output from the port with a delay, putting them back in phase with the output from the front of the driver, giving an amount of low frequency boost. That's very simplistic, there are many others on this forum that can explain the details better than me.
The TABAQ design is for small full range drivers, which tend to be a bit shrill, so a BSC is often added. However, with my builds with the FaitalPro 3FE22/3FE25, I use no BSC, and find that placing them on the floor and against a wall gives me a pleasing amount of bass considering the tiny driver, wiht very honest, clear highs and mids. A friend of mine did a build with the Tang Band W5-2143, and those quite simply sound amazing.
If you really need more bass, add a sub. Another friend recently built me a nice active sub, which works great with my Denon RCD-M39, but I am between TABAQ builds unfortunately, and my mains are currently 2-ways (heresy), but I can tell that when I get around to building my next set, it will make a great little system.
So upshot is I'm giving a +1 to the TABAQ to be your next build.
The TABAQ design is for small full range drivers, which tend to be a bit shrill, so a BSC is often added. However, with my builds with the FaitalPro 3FE22/3FE25, I use no BSC, and find that placing them on the floor and against a wall gives me a pleasing amount of bass considering the tiny driver, wiht very honest, clear highs and mids. A friend of mine did a build with the Tang Band W5-2143, and those quite simply sound amazing.
If you really need more bass, add a sub. Another friend recently built me a nice active sub, which works great with my Denon RCD-M39, but I am between TABAQ builds unfortunately, and my mains are currently 2-ways (heresy), but I can tell that when I get around to building my next set, it will make a great little system.
So upshot is I'm giving a +1 to the TABAQ to be your next build.
The TABAQ is a design that was gracefully offered by Bjorn, which is the DIY version of his commercial offering.
It is, as mentioned above, a transmission line, 1/4 wave design.
There are many benefits to it than simply a tall box with a hole at the bottom!
The driver is placed lower to get rid of some unwanted resonances.
The bass extension has to be heard to be believed... Many friends that came over thought the sub was on, and were surprised when I showed them it was turned off. It's not house shaking, of course, but it is quite enough for many people. Parts of it has to do with the low bass delay that the design offers, compared to a simple vented box.
The design also lowers the impedance of the whole system, making it easier to drive them for some amps.
It is, as mentioned above, a transmission line, 1/4 wave design.
There are many benefits to it than simply a tall box with a hole at the bottom!
The driver is placed lower to get rid of some unwanted resonances.
The bass extension has to be heard to be believed... Many friends that came over thought the sub was on, and were surprised when I showed them it was turned off. It's not house shaking, of course, but it is quite enough for many people. Parts of it has to do with the low bass delay that the design offers, compared to a simple vented box.
The design also lowers the impedance of the whole system, making it easier to drive them for some amps.