This will the mid in an MTM with a 12" woofer on the bottom
The tweeter is a BG Neo3.
Fully active crossover with EQ (MiniDSP 2x8)
Looking to stay in the $30-40 range.
The choices :
MCM 55-5665 - 6.5" Die Cast Woofer 8 Ohm Rubber Surround
Dayton Audio RS150P-4 6" Reference Paper Woofer 4 Ohm
Silver Flute W17RC38-04 6.5" Woofer Wool Cone 4 ohm
Hi-Vi LK6.5 6.5" Woven Kevlar Cone Woofer - 6 ohm
Hi-Vi L6-4R 6" Woven Kevlar Cone - 4 ohm
Hi-Vi F6 Kevlar/Paper Cone 7" Woofer
Or???
The tweeter is a BG Neo3.
Fully active crossover with EQ (MiniDSP 2x8)
Looking to stay in the $30-40 range.
The choices :
MCM 55-5665 - 6.5" Die Cast Woofer 8 Ohm Rubber Surround
Dayton Audio RS150P-4 6" Reference Paper Woofer 4 Ohm
Silver Flute W17RC38-04 6.5" Woofer Wool Cone 4 ohm
Hi-Vi LK6.5 6.5" Woven Kevlar Cone Woofer - 6 ohm
Hi-Vi L6-4R 6" Woven Kevlar Cone - 4 ohm
Hi-Vi F6 Kevlar/Paper Cone 7" Woofer
Or???
What is the range that you want the mid to carry? Why does it have to be so large when you already have a 12 in the system? Since you are going active, the sensitivity doesn’t matter as much, but it shouldn’t be too far off since you might like its transient response to match the ribbon(which would be harder to do with a 6.5, than say something smaller).
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Couple of reasons for the larger mid ..
1. I like the sound of a large paper mid. My current system (a JBL 4350 clone) uses a 10" mid (FaitalPRO 10FE200)
2. These are going to be a 'mini' version of the Wilson Alexandria. Each driver in its own cabinet .. all angled toward the listener. The Wilson uses 7" mids.
3. The effective range of the mid will probably be 300-3KHz
1. I like the sound of a large paper mid. My current system (a JBL 4350 clone) uses a 10" mid (FaitalPRO 10FE200)
2. These are going to be a 'mini' version of the Wilson Alexandria. Each driver in its own cabinet .. all angled toward the listener. The Wilson uses 7" mids.
3. The effective range of the mid will probably be 300-3KHz
Hello!
I heard Dayton RS150 and I have Hi-Vi L6-6R
Dayton's T/S parameters close to the manual.
I liked it, its a good choise.
I had a lot of Hi-Vi speakers:
F5, L6-6R, W6, PD6, W10
The measured T/S and between the manual there is 30-50% difference.
A Chinese joke 🙂
For Mid, I liked the L6, but it is not good for a two-way.
One vote for the Dayton.
S
I heard Dayton RS150 and I have Hi-Vi L6-6R
Dayton's T/S parameters close to the manual.
I liked it, its a good choise.
I had a lot of Hi-Vi speakers:
F5, L6-6R, W6, PD6, W10
The measured T/S and between the manual there is 30-50% difference.
A Chinese joke 🙂
For Mid, I liked the L6, but it is not good for a two-way.
One vote for the Dayton.
S
I don’t understand.
You are asking for a mid, but these are all woofers. To me, a mid is a speaker that will cover all the basic tones of all the instruments from a trumpet to the piccolo. Anything above a piccolo is tweeter range. Anything below a trumpet is bass range.
These woofers' FR’s are fairly flat to about 1.5 khz and then break up badly after that, and you want to go to 3 khz. While you said “active” you didn’t indicate the slope, so you might easily be dealing with 4000hz before it becomes inaudible to those frequencies where its far from flat and probably into its larger area of non-linear distortion.
I guess maybe you should have specified the characteristics since the Faital 10 doesn’t have a particularly flat FR except between 150 hz and 400hz. Apparently, I have a different idea of what you need that you do.
Also the Alexandria uses dome tweeters and two 13 and 15 inch woofers. Anything smaller than those “Hulking Bears” could be considered a mini to them. Perhaps you meant that you were going to make a system that moved the speakers in their boxes so that listening is always on axis, not in the qualities of the speakers themselves.
You are asking for a mid, but these are all woofers. To me, a mid is a speaker that will cover all the basic tones of all the instruments from a trumpet to the piccolo. Anything above a piccolo is tweeter range. Anything below a trumpet is bass range.
These woofers' FR’s are fairly flat to about 1.5 khz and then break up badly after that, and you want to go to 3 khz. While you said “active” you didn’t indicate the slope, so you might easily be dealing with 4000hz before it becomes inaudible to those frequencies where its far from flat and probably into its larger area of non-linear distortion.
I guess maybe you should have specified the characteristics since the Faital 10 doesn’t have a particularly flat FR except between 150 hz and 400hz. Apparently, I have a different idea of what you need that you do.
Also the Alexandria uses dome tweeters and two 13 and 15 inch woofers. Anything smaller than those “Hulking Bears” could be considered a mini to them. Perhaps you meant that you were going to make a system that moved the speakers in their boxes so that listening is always on axis, not in the qualities of the speakers themselves.
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I have had them for a few years now and its time to try something different. They sound fantastic .. but have a very narrow sweet spot (in part due to the large mid). It is also crossed really high (4K) .. but having all the vocal in one driver does something really special.
I am now looking at 5" mids for the new project. A lot more options.
I am now looking at 5" mids for the new project. A lot more options.
I agree. My line arrays are built that way. But instead of doing it with one driver, I do it with 24 per side.
The one I’m currently building for the downstairs has 24-2.5 inch midranges, covering the range from 550 to about 5000. This is a 4 way system with a 100-550 mid woofer and a 27-100 sub. It also has 30- 1 inch tweeters. It is also actively crossed(24 db/octave L-R), and has four separate amps for each range.
No crossovers in the middle of the mid range.
My upstairs lie array has 17 3.5 inch mids covering that range: 125 hz to 3000hz.
Zaphs ZA14 is hard to beat but it's all kinds of wrong if you want paper and the option for a really high cross.
From your list, I'd take the RS150P, but if you open up the budget a little, I'm a big fan of the Dynavox 6.5" driver at $50. Smooth and detailed and doesn't suffer power compression with the giant 3" voice coil. It's weakness is bass output (still not bad, just not a leader at this price point), but that won't be an issue using them as mids.
Dan
Dan
15 years ago....
....It seemed that you could find a lot of speakers labeled as a midrange. But I believe that DIYers have moved more to 2 way speakers. You see a lot of them. And you see a lot less three ways and four ways.
For that and other reasons, manufacturers have stopped calling these midranges by what they are, and more likely started calling them Full ranges.
And so if you want to find a mid-range at Madisound or PE, you have to look in the Full Range section.
....It seemed that you could find a lot of speakers labeled as a midrange. But I believe that DIYers have moved more to 2 way speakers. You see a lot of them. And you see a lot less three ways and four ways.
For that and other reasons, manufacturers have stopped calling these midranges by what they are, and more likely started calling them Full ranges.
And so if you want to find a mid-range at Madisound or PE, you have to look in the Full Range section.
SB Acoustics SB16PFC25-4 6" Paper Cone Woofer - 4 ohm
SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, 6.5" Woofer
these seem like they'd fit the bill. Both come in 4 or 8 ohm.
SB Acoustics SB17NRXC35-4, 6.5" Woofer
these seem like they'd fit the bill. Both come in 4 or 8 ohm.
Just a heads up -- MTM with the BG3 is going to leave you with a pretty substantial separation between the woofers (lobing).
Mind that in your design. 🙂
Mind that in your design. 🙂
After seeing that you also use a minidsp as crossover, a b-g neo3 planar and multi-amping, I sensed our criteria for good sound reproduction were aligned. My recommendation would be SEAS Excel W15CY-001 (E0015) 5.5" magnesium Cone Woofer .
The reason I like this speaker and the neo 3 tweeter is because for their respective frequency ranges their output has a "clean" waterfall plot. To me, the last bastion of obfuscation of the clarity of the audio waveform that cannot yet be corrected by known technology is the distortion that occurs when a speaker doesn't behave like a piston perfectly following the source signal. Other speakers do worse in that they leak out energy in certain spectral ranges after the source has gone quiet. My impression of speakers that do this is that they sound "boxy" or like a piece of wood or a curtain in the way between the listener and the music. The ideal would be a glass window pane of perfect transparency.
So, I have nothing to offer in the paper category. I do realize some people value certain sound characteristics for reasons that are subjectively important though of course not everyone shares the same sentiments.
The reason I like this speaker and the neo 3 tweeter is because for their respective frequency ranges their output has a "clean" waterfall plot. To me, the last bastion of obfuscation of the clarity of the audio waveform that cannot yet be corrected by known technology is the distortion that occurs when a speaker doesn't behave like a piston perfectly following the source signal. Other speakers do worse in that they leak out energy in certain spectral ranges after the source has gone quiet. My impression of speakers that do this is that they sound "boxy" or like a piece of wood or a curtain in the way between the listener and the music. The ideal would be a glass window pane of perfect transparency.
So, I have nothing to offer in the paper category. I do realize some people value certain sound characteristics for reasons that are subjectively important though of course not everyone shares the same sentiments.
Faital 5FE120
FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 5FE120
BMS 5S117
http://www.bmsspeakers.com/index.php?id=bms_5s117
BMS publishes distortion curves but bear in mind that it is measured at 100W rather than 1W.
The 5" SB15MFC30 uses a poly-plastic cone for smooth extended frequency response even with a crossover up to 3kHz. Both 4-ohm and 8-ohm available. ~$44 USD
If you decide after some research NOT to build an MTM topology, then consider a TM using the 6" Satori MR16P-4 midrange with 92db sensitivity with the SB26STCN-C000-4 dome tweeter with 92.5db sensitivity and 72mm diameter mounting plate, which can be trimmed for even shorter Center-to-Center spacing on a flat baffle. Your MiniDSP can manage time alignment, but not lobbing.
=====
Save the Whales!
Save the JBL 4350!
Have you experimented with a 1.5k Hz crossover between a horn-tweeter and your Faital 10FE200? At 1.5Khz the 10FE200 should generate an 80-90 degree polar pattern. If you use passive crossovers, there are short horns which can closely match the physical time offset between TM.
PRV Audio WG35-25-B waveguide. (I use this with Faital HF108 CD)
SEOS12 or SEOS15 waveguide.
18Sound XT120
If you decide after some research NOT to build an MTM topology, then consider a TM using the 6" Satori MR16P-4 midrange with 92db sensitivity with the SB26STCN-C000-4 dome tweeter with 92.5db sensitivity and 72mm diameter mounting plate, which can be trimmed for even shorter Center-to-Center spacing on a flat baffle. Your MiniDSP can manage time alignment, but not lobbing.
=====
Save the Whales!
Save the JBL 4350!
Have you experimented with a 1.5k Hz crossover between a horn-tweeter and your Faital 10FE200? At 1.5Khz the 10FE200 should generate an 80-90 degree polar pattern. If you use passive crossovers, there are short horns which can closely match the physical time offset between TM.
PRV Audio WG35-25-B waveguide. (I use this with Faital HF108 CD)
SEOS12 or SEOS15 waveguide.
18Sound XT120
Attachments
The more I look at the Dynavox 6.5" ... the more I like it.
Any experience with it in a 2 way or as a mid?
Any experience with it in a 2 way or as a mid?
At a lower price-point while emulating the Alexandria with larger paper cones (SB Acoustics), the choice is pretty obvious:
6" SB16PFC25-8 :: SB Acoustics
I'd probably stick to no more than 2.5 kHz cross-point however (..and considering your crossover capability, likely 2 kHz).
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