How about push-pull 813. I think with surplus parts, USD $1500 is very close (maybe even less if you are using Euro because of the exchange rate). See
http://home.zonnet.nl/horneman/813.htm
and especially
http://www.izzy-wizzy.com/audio/powamp813.html
http://home.zonnet.nl/horneman/813.htm
and especially
http://www.izzy-wizzy.com/audio/powamp813.html
Hi,
thank you Franck ! "Cordialement" is more poetic than "cordially" 😉 🙂 but I will try. Congratulations for your french.
PP 2A3 is very good, I have try a PP2A3 http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/2a3/pp2a312w/pp2a312w.htm (with Triangle 91db loudspeakers), great for under 1500$.
An other very good amplifier in class A for under 1500$ is a 6V6, 6v6 are very close to 300B. This is an exemple in double PP http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/6v6gt/classa15w/dpp15w6v6gtclassea.htm
If you want a 300B, Audio Note Conquest 18W is very very good http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/300b/audionote.htm
Ysabban, there is a lot of good amplifiers under 1500$, but for a more 15W PP under 1500$, I recommand WAD KIT88 or KIT6550 with KT88 valves 40W Class A, great for the price. You can buy it in kit at WAD or build one with schematic they give free.
I have build one KIT88 with some modifications like I have said, and some french and belgian people have do it to after me. If you can read a little bit french, you can find some informations on my forum's site http://ptsoundlab.jexiste.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36 . If you choose KIT6550, wad have an english forum http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/forum/index.php
Don't forget that for building an amplifier at a good price, you can find KT88,6550,2A3,6V6 very good valves for less than 300B or 845 very good valves.
I don't know if in your country you will find parts at the same price, but here in europe, for 1500$ or a little bit more, a great amplifier is a SE 18W 845 http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/845/84518w/se18w845alimseparee.htm . Certainly the best for this price.
Best Regards.
Cordially 😉
Pascal.
thank you Franck ! "Cordialement" is more poetic than "cordially" 😉 🙂 but I will try. Congratulations for your french.
PP 2A3 is very good, I have try a PP2A3 http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/2a3/pp2a312w/pp2a312w.htm (with Triangle 91db loudspeakers), great for under 1500$.
An other very good amplifier in class A for under 1500$ is a 6V6, 6v6 are very close to 300B. This is an exemple in double PP http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/6v6gt/classa15w/dpp15w6v6gtclassea.htm
If you want a 300B, Audio Note Conquest 18W is very very good http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/300b/audionote.htm
Ysabban, there is a lot of good amplifiers under 1500$, but for a more 15W PP under 1500$, I recommand WAD KIT88 or KIT6550 with KT88 valves 40W Class A, great for the price. You can buy it in kit at WAD or build one with schematic they give free.
I have build one KIT88 with some modifications like I have said, and some french and belgian people have do it to after me. If you can read a little bit french, you can find some informations on my forum's site http://ptsoundlab.jexiste.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36 . If you choose KIT6550, wad have an english forum http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/forum/index.php
Don't forget that for building an amplifier at a good price, you can find KT88,6550,2A3,6V6 very good valves for less than 300B or 845 very good valves.
I don't know if in your country you will find parts at the same price, but here in europe, for 1500$ or a little bit more, a great amplifier is a SE 18W 845 http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/845/84518w/se18w845alimseparee.htm . Certainly the best for this price.
Best Regards.
Cordially 😉
Pascal.
a hybrid amplifier could be the answer
You can build a very decent en not too expensive amp that has tubes at the front and transistors and the back end. I once build an Italian kit with good result. If you don't want the best of the best and don't want to put fire on your wrong speakers......
You can build a very decent en not too expensive amp that has tubes at the front and transistors and the back end. I once build an Italian kit with good result. If you don't want the best of the best and don't want to put fire on your wrong speakers......
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Help me choose a Tube Amp. Project
where can i get pin configuration of the 437A (duncan's TDSL does not have those)? i believe i have stumbled upon these tubes from a friend of mine, but i picked up the 417As instead. i might just make one as my ultimate 300B.
edit: oh i found it Here
hi kuei yang wang,Kuei Yang Wang said:
where can i get pin configuration of the 437A (duncan's TDSL does not have those)? i believe i have stumbled upon these tubes from a friend of mine, but i picked up the 417As instead. i might just make one as my ultimate 300B.
edit: oh i found it Here
Hi kuei yang wang,
Just wondering if you have compare different WE pentode tube used as drivers? How does 437A compare to 310A (or 328A)?
Just wondering if you have compare different WE pentode tube used as drivers? How does 437A compare to 310A (or 328A)?
Konnichiwa,
Well, the 437A is a Pentode, High Transconductance type. It sounds different to pentode drivers in general. It is best employed with CL coupling to the output Valve in a design meant to employ a little Class A2 for maximum power.
I will soon build another 300B Amp which will be based either on on the WECO 91A or maybe the Shindo 300B Limited, as I have WE 310A, WE 311B, WE 300B and WE 274A Valves at hand. I'll tell you about WE Pentodes then.
Sayonara
agent.5 said:
Well, the 437A is a Pentode, High Transconductance type. It sounds different to pentode drivers in general. It is best employed with CL coupling to the output Valve in a design meant to employ a little Class A2 for maximum power.
I will soon build another 300B Amp which will be based either on on the WECO 91A or maybe the Shindo 300B Limited, as I have WE 310A, WE 311B, WE 300B and WE 274A Valves at hand. I'll tell you about WE Pentodes then.
Sayonara
Hi Ysabban,
I have a similiar current post where I list a few links to schematics. I too am looking for suggestions mainly from people that have built an amp from a "Reliable/Tested" schematic. I also listen to rock. I get the feeling 300bs are for clasical music? Pluss the cost to build that type of amp seems like alot more than what we may want or need for Rock.
Have you ever built a tube amp before? I have only built one audio amp and two guitar amps.
Rob
I have a similiar current post where I list a few links to schematics. I too am looking for suggestions mainly from people that have built an amp from a "Reliable/Tested" schematic. I also listen to rock. I get the feeling 300bs are for clasical music? Pluss the cost to build that type of amp seems like alot more than what we may want or need for Rock.
Have you ever built a tube amp before? I have only built one audio amp and two guitar amps.
Rob
Konnichiwa,
Well, I have build quite a few Amp's myself, plus helped many friends with theirs. I am familiar with Kit's from WAD, Bottlehead, DIY HiFisupply, Audio Note and Edison/Audion, plus many a scratch build unit. My tastes in sound and music seem less catholic than most, so my comments need to be seen in context.
I would suggest to avoid public endless flames from those who react badly to having their favourite 300B SE Amp (and co-incidentally also the only they build) criticised, you can send me a direct mail if you want comments from my viewpoint.
Absolutely not. They do great on Rock, Pop, Rap and all sorts, given suitable speakers.
A pair of 15" Tannoy Coaxials in suitable large (230 litre) corner cabinets (97db/1W/1m, 16 Ohm, appx. 30Hz - 18KHz +/-6db 1/3rd ocatve pink noise in room) do great with all kind of music, driven by 300B's.
You can build an amplifier on any sort of Cost level. You can build the basic Kit from DIY HiFisupply with Valve Art or Sovtek 300B's for a little over $ 1,000. But in this form the Amplifier is okay comapred to other affordable Kit's although it knocks the stuffing out of some of the less expensive commercial 300B SE Amplifier, BUT it is far from the best sound you can get from a 300B, be the music Rock, Pop or classical.
Sayonara
RMS said:
Well, I have build quite a few Amp's myself, plus helped many friends with theirs. I am familiar with Kit's from WAD, Bottlehead, DIY HiFisupply, Audio Note and Edison/Audion, plus many a scratch build unit. My tastes in sound and music seem less catholic than most, so my comments need to be seen in context.
I would suggest to avoid public endless flames from those who react badly to having their favourite 300B SE Amp (and co-incidentally also the only they build) criticised, you can send me a direct mail if you want comments from my viewpoint.
RMS said:
Absolutely not. They do great on Rock, Pop, Rap and all sorts, given suitable speakers.
A pair of 15" Tannoy Coaxials in suitable large (230 litre) corner cabinets (97db/1W/1m, 16 Ohm, appx. 30Hz - 18KHz +/-6db 1/3rd ocatve pink noise in room) do great with all kind of music, driven by 300B's.
RMS said:
You can build an amplifier on any sort of Cost level. You can build the basic Kit from DIY HiFisupply with Valve Art or Sovtek 300B's for a little over $ 1,000. But in this form the Amplifier is okay comapred to other affordable Kit's although it knocks the stuffing out of some of the less expensive commercial 300B SE Amplifier, BUT it is far from the best sound you can get from a 300B, be the music Rock, Pop or classical.
Sayonara
hi
thank you for you advice
right now i have few choices
1) BLOCK MONO AUDIO NOTE CONQUEST 18W Classe A - http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/300b/audionote.htm
but then as the site says i need to have a pre-amp
and need to get a better speakers
translation to english - http://babelfish.altavista.com/babe...hemas/300b/audionote.htm&lp=fren&intl=1&tlb=1
another option is
2) Push Sweater of 6L6 - 2x40W
http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/6l6/pp40w6l6.htm
if i will choose this amp, i will need you help choosing the tube type and the other components
3) Single End Classe A de 845 2x18W sans contre reaction
http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/845/84518w/se18w8
45alimseparee.htm
but if i choose this one i guess i better choose the 300b
4) "Premier" Class A de KT88 40W
http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/kt88/classa40w/monclassakt8840w.htm
thank you
and now i can say a happy new year
🙂
thank you for you advice
right now i have few choices
1) BLOCK MONO AUDIO NOTE CONQUEST 18W Classe A - http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/300b/audionote.htm
but then as the site says i need to have a pre-amp
and need to get a better speakers
translation to english - http://babelfish.altavista.com/babe...hemas/300b/audionote.htm&lp=fren&intl=1&tlb=1
another option is
2) Push Sweater of 6L6 - 2x40W
http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/6l6/pp40w6l6.htm
if i will choose this amp, i will need you help choosing the tube type and the other components
3) Single End Classe A de 845 2x18W sans contre reaction
http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/845/84518w/se18w8
45alimseparee.htm
but if i choose this one i guess i better choose the 300b
4) "Premier" Class A de KT88 40W
http://ptsoundlab.free.fr/sectubes/schemas/kt88/classa40w/monclassakt8840w.htm
thank you
and now i can say a happy new year
🙂
Wei thinggywotsit is quite wrong : the 437A is a very high transconductance triode , similar to the British 3A/167M but with a different base (magnoval, I beleive). As to how it sounds...I've never been able to afford one!
Konnichiwa,
Just to be sure, you are aware that all your "choices" will sound drastically different to each other?
And I hope you do not mind me saying that non of the choices you list strike me as having the potential for particulary good/outstanding sound either. Of the whole lot I'd probably choose the AN PSE Amp if I absolutely HAD TO CHOOSE one of these.
But even then I think you would be miles better of building a copy of the design by Simon Shilton (SJS) PSE Amp, this is easily adapted to PSE 300B, simply change Bias and +B Voltages to suit...
To make this schematic suitable to 300B's you simply add a moderate value Input Capacitor to the two +C Supplies, to bring the +B up to 350V under load, try 2u2 for starters. Equally a small value input Capacitor would likely be apropriate for the -B voltage to bring this up so 300B Valves can be biased correctly.
However, even the designer of the above prefers an amplifer much along the lines of my own preference, as shown below:
If you cannot find the WE 437A or think it too expensive, the E810F or E55L Triode wired works great too in the same circuit, maybe with a slight adjustment of the cathode resistor. Of course, now you are down to 8..10W Output Power.
My own implementation of a similar style amplifier looks like this:
This BTW was build on the Chassis and using the main components of the Kit from DIY HiFisupply.
My personal favourite for your direct situation keeping your existing Speakers, would likely be the circuit attached below, but the output stage changed to Parallel Push-Pull with 2 or 3 Pairs of Valves Ultralinear or even better Triode, you can use both EL34 and KT88/6550 as long as you bias them right.
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/images/audio/8417a.gif
Original Power Supply:
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/images/audio/8417p.gif
You would have to scale the Supply up to provide sufficient current for 2 or 3 Pairs output Valves and you need the change some desgin items to provide for the use of KT88 instead of the originally used valves, described here:
http://www.triodeel.com/8417.htm
The result would give you a "Homebrew" Quicksilver M135 Amplifier, one of my favourite "normal" Push-Pull Valve Amp's for "normal" Speakers.
Ysabban said:
Just to be sure, you are aware that all your "choices" will sound drastically different to each other?
And I hope you do not mind me saying that non of the choices you list strike me as having the potential for particulary good/outstanding sound either. Of the whole lot I'd probably choose the AN PSE Amp if I absolutely HAD TO CHOOSE one of these.
But even then I think you would be miles better of building a copy of the design by Simon Shilton (SJS) PSE Amp, this is easily adapted to PSE 300B, simply change Bias and +B Voltages to suit...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
To make this schematic suitable to 300B's you simply add a moderate value Input Capacitor to the two +C Supplies, to bring the +B up to 350V under load, try 2u2 for starters. Equally a small value input Capacitor would likely be apropriate for the -B voltage to bring this up so 300B Valves can be biased correctly.
However, even the designer of the above prefers an amplifer much along the lines of my own preference, as shown below:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
If you cannot find the WE 437A or think it too expensive, the E810F or E55L Triode wired works great too in the same circuit, maybe with a slight adjustment of the cathode resistor. Of course, now you are down to 8..10W Output Power.
My own implementation of a similar style amplifier looks like this:
This BTW was build on the Chassis and using the main components of the Kit from DIY HiFisupply.
My personal favourite for your direct situation keeping your existing Speakers, would likely be the circuit attached below, but the output stage changed to Parallel Push-Pull with 2 or 3 Pairs of Valves Ultralinear or even better Triode, you can use both EL34 and KT88/6550 as long as you bias them right.
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/images/audio/8417a.gif
Original Power Supply:
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/images/audio/8417p.gif
You would have to scale the Supply up to provide sufficient current for 2 or 3 Pairs output Valves and you need the change some desgin items to provide for the use of KT88 instead of the originally used valves, described here:
http://www.triodeel.com/8417.htm
The result would give you a "Homebrew" Quicksilver M135 Amplifier, one of my favourite "normal" Push-Pull Valve Amp's for "normal" Speakers.
Konnichiwa,
My bad, I meant TRIODE, but somehow wrote Pentode, as the discussion was about them. Anyway, my usual lysdexia.
Sayonara
barretter said:
My bad, I meant TRIODE, but somehow wrote Pentode, as the discussion was about them. Anyway, my usual lysdexia.
Sayonara
Hi Kuei Yang Wang and Ptsoundlab
thank you for you help (and everybody else)
i will now take you advice, and read more learn the schematics
and when i iwll start to build my project i will post picture and some building log about it
thank again
thank you for you help (and everybody else)
i will now take you advice, and read more learn the schematics
and when i iwll start to build my project i will post picture and some building log about it
thank again
question for thorsten KYW
For somebody starting with building amps and with the wrong speakers a hybrid amp could be the answer. What is your opinion on this one (GY 50). I build it as a starter some years ago and it was a satisfying experience, except that it uses PCB's which are not good for changing and experimenting after building.
You can find the kit at: http://www.audiodesignguide.com/ba/index.html
There is also the proposed parallel PP amp in kit form.
Those Italians are good in tube-amps
Pipo
For somebody starting with building amps and with the wrong speakers a hybrid amp could be the answer. What is your opinion on this one (GY 50). I build it as a starter some years ago and it was a satisfying experience, except that it uses PCB's which are not good for changing and experimenting after building.
You can find the kit at: http://www.audiodesignguide.com/ba/index.html
There is also the proposed parallel PP amp in kit form.
Those Italians are good in tube-amps
Pipo
Attachments
Re: question for thorsten KYW
Konnichiwa,
Well, IF for arguments sake, you'd ask what I'd recommend as beginners Amp, hybrid and all, look at the attched. I think the resulting Amp would sound not halve bad.
Op-Amp chip of course National Semi LM3875 and yes, the whole shebang on the positive input can be replaced by a wire, if you are not worried about offset and the Amp may sound better that way. Also, you COULD return the positive input (with or without RC combo) to the 1 Ohm Resistor (negative speaker terminal) instead of ground, achieving thus not a positive output impedance of around 3R but a negative one of around 0.6 Ohm.
Or shortcircuit the 1 R resistor for a "low output impedance" option. One could fit a switch to select between -0.6R (return Op-Amp positive input to 1R resistor), appx. 0R (shortcircuit 1R), appx. 3R (schematic as shown) or appx. 6R5 (switch 1R to 2R2), depending upon speaker needs or listeners desires.
Sayonara
Konnichiwa,
Jaap said:
Well, IF for arguments sake, you'd ask what I'd recommend as beginners Amp, hybrid and all, look at the attched. I think the resulting Amp would sound not halve bad.
Op-Amp chip of course National Semi LM3875 and yes, the whole shebang on the positive input can be replaced by a wire, if you are not worried about offset and the Amp may sound better that way. Also, you COULD return the positive input (with or without RC combo) to the 1 Ohm Resistor (negative speaker terminal) instead of ground, achieving thus not a positive output impedance of around 3R but a negative one of around 0.6 Ohm.
Or shortcircuit the 1 R resistor for a "low output impedance" option. One could fit a switch to select between -0.6R (return Op-Amp positive input to 1R resistor), appx. 0R (shortcircuit 1R), appx. 3R (schematic as shown) or appx. 6R5 (switch 1R to 2R2), depending upon speaker needs or listeners desires.
Sayonara
Attachments
Hello Schematic Seeker!
After reading through so many interesting follow-ups, I have my 2 cents worth (yup, another opinion!)
If you want the most neutral SE output transformers available today, choose the one's from UK's Audio Note. This iron gets the best reviews as compared to other esoteric types.
Money-no-object, then the venerable Tamura iron is the de-facto choice for success, as is the Magnequest transformers Mike LaFevre is winding.
As far as topology and power for a given speaker, you will need to know if your particular speaker is 'tube-friendly'.
Efficiency alone is not the holy-grail for good low power SE sound. A particular speaker must exhibit a benign Phase and Impedance characteristic. Just because a speaker puts out 100 dB at 1m/1w does not imply single ended success.
The whole subject of single ended low power has ended up as a hype driven subject with people who recommend stuff they truly know will only work after being tested, not because a specification implies a good match.
My recommendation is to buy the best SE output transformers, Choke and Power Transformer possible, then you begin to develop your design around these parts.
The 30 dollar coupling caps mean nothing is the circuit is not up to par. I see so many DIY aficionados spending hundreds on esoteric parts for equipment which inherently will never see the likes of a Stereophile Testing review. One will really only know if the design stands up when 0.90 cent NTE coupling caps sound about as good as 30 dollar Copper Foil Paper-in-oil.
Start cheap, listen, then upgrade.
To spend allot on parts is not the best for DIY. Get the amp built with the best transformers and you will the be rewarded with 98% of the sound. The other 2% will be in that 30 dollar capacitor.
As far as NFB designs are concerned, they never measure well, but can sound great with the right speakers.
If you are worried about a good 6 Ohm match, simply have your transformers wound with a 6 Ohm and 8 Ohm set of taps. That way you can be sure about your experiment with what sounds best.
I like the PSE 2A3 schematic, this looks like a promising design.
Myself, I built the original Kismet 2A3 and with some tweaks have an amp that some say rivals OEM designs in sound quality.
BR/
Rich
After reading through so many interesting follow-ups, I have my 2 cents worth (yup, another opinion!)
If you want the most neutral SE output transformers available today, choose the one's from UK's Audio Note. This iron gets the best reviews as compared to other esoteric types.
Money-no-object, then the venerable Tamura iron is the de-facto choice for success, as is the Magnequest transformers Mike LaFevre is winding.
As far as topology and power for a given speaker, you will need to know if your particular speaker is 'tube-friendly'.
Efficiency alone is not the holy-grail for good low power SE sound. A particular speaker must exhibit a benign Phase and Impedance characteristic. Just because a speaker puts out 100 dB at 1m/1w does not imply single ended success.
The whole subject of single ended low power has ended up as a hype driven subject with people who recommend stuff they truly know will only work after being tested, not because a specification implies a good match.
My recommendation is to buy the best SE output transformers, Choke and Power Transformer possible, then you begin to develop your design around these parts.
The 30 dollar coupling caps mean nothing is the circuit is not up to par. I see so many DIY aficionados spending hundreds on esoteric parts for equipment which inherently will never see the likes of a Stereophile Testing review. One will really only know if the design stands up when 0.90 cent NTE coupling caps sound about as good as 30 dollar Copper Foil Paper-in-oil.
Start cheap, listen, then upgrade.
To spend allot on parts is not the best for DIY. Get the amp built with the best transformers and you will the be rewarded with 98% of the sound. The other 2% will be in that 30 dollar capacitor.
As far as NFB designs are concerned, they never measure well, but can sound great with the right speakers.
If you are worried about a good 6 Ohm match, simply have your transformers wound with a 6 Ohm and 8 Ohm set of taps. That way you can be sure about your experiment with what sounds best.
I like the PSE 2A3 schematic, this looks like a promising design.
Myself, I built the original Kismet 2A3 and with some tweaks have an amp that some say rivals OEM designs in sound quality.
BR/
Rich
- Status
- Not open for further replies.