So I got a little off track with my first run... I'm looking to build a subwoofer for larger house parties. The music that will be played is all bass heavy electronic and hip hop. I'm basically looking for something you'll really feel, that will pound the chest and shake the foundation. So guests are like wow. No restraints on enclosure size.
I'd really like to use a plate amp and a single 18", yet I'm having trouble matching up the right combo...
Before doing more research I purchased a dayton RSS390HF-4 15" and a bash 500rms plate amp. Yet I don't think that's going to give me the output I'm looking for...
I'd really like to use a plate amp and a single 18", yet I'm having trouble matching up the right combo...
Before doing more research I purchased a dayton RSS390HF-4 15" and a bash 500rms plate amp. Yet I don't think that's going to give me the output I'm looking for...
Hi,
Maximum sub SPL is all about driver volume displacement and having
enough amplifier power to achieve it. How "loud" a given sub can go
is basically trading off bass extension for more higher output.
You'd think a 15" sub optimised for bass extension with typical hifi speakers
at modest volumes will be pretty useless with PA speakers and party levels.
Not so if you go about it the right way, which is restricting its use to the very
lowest bass and probably boosting the bass of the main PA speakers so you
can use the sub for the very lowest frequencies.
Your right though in that the Dayton goes very low and a party (PA) sub
simply is designed to be more efficient further up and go louder but with
a more restricted bass extension, say around 33Hz compared to 20Hz.
rgds, sreten.
Maximum sub SPL is all about driver volume displacement and having
enough amplifier power to achieve it. How "loud" a given sub can go
is basically trading off bass extension for more higher output.
You'd think a 15" sub optimised for bass extension with typical hifi speakers
at modest volumes will be pretty useless with PA speakers and party levels.
Not so if you go about it the right way, which is restricting its use to the very
lowest bass and probably boosting the bass of the main PA speakers so you
can use the sub for the very lowest frequencies.
Your right though in that the Dayton goes very low and a party (PA) sub
simply is designed to be more efficient further up and go louder but with
a more restricted bass extension, say around 33Hz compared to 20Hz.
rgds, sreten.
Thank you for the detailed response streten! Very informative.
So that chest thumping feel you get, the earthquake, is what your terming "louder" correct? I.E. less bass extension but more decibels. (33hz vs 20hz for example) So what exactly are you missing out on? Will it sound significantly worse? Do most rap/electro songs typically stay above 30hz?
Also, where does subwoofer size come into the mix? Does a larger diameter subwoofer allows more decibels and less punchy? So a 15" and a 21" could potentially output the same "chest thumping" sensation?
So that chest thumping feel you get, the earthquake, is what your terming "louder" correct? I.E. less bass extension but more decibels. (33hz vs 20hz for example) So what exactly are you missing out on? Will it sound significantly worse? Do most rap/electro songs typically stay above 30hz?
Also, where does subwoofer size come into the mix? Does a larger diameter subwoofer allows more decibels and less punchy? So a 15" and a 21" could potentially output the same "chest thumping" sensation?
Dance music has its peak output around 55hz, 99% is above 40hz.
I use a special PPSL design that is flat to 31hz, but it's wasted as I have only heard one song in the last couple of years that had any real 30hz content.
I would consider a TH design for a single 18 for the biggest bang for the buck, and a real pro-sound amplifier rather than a plate amplifier; many have built-in crossovers, limiters, and high-pass filters.
I use a special PPSL design that is flat to 31hz, but it's wasted as I have only heard one song in the last couple of years that had any real 30hz content.
I would consider a TH design for a single 18 for the biggest bang for the buck, and a real pro-sound amplifier rather than a plate amplifier; many have built-in crossovers, limiters, and high-pass filters.
No, it's not wasted. If you hit a 30 Hz box with 40 Hz, it's loafing and the reproduced sound will be better than if you beat a 40 Hz box within an inch of its life.
And then there is the possibility of patching in the 120A and not having anything bad happen if the SPLs are "sane". One thing that having the low bass (even if manufactured) does is give you a deep-reaching, engaging sound without the overall SPL being as damaging. To get that much excietment in the music with the low end restricted just ends up being loud and obnoxious.
The most common complaint I had in the early days was "Turn it down, and turn up the BASS". Then I finally got it, and started using boxes that reached lower.
Hi,
FYI, For the lower FR end: Have a look at this suggestion using the Dayton driver:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/197297-t-line-box-idea-thoughts.html#post2725467
b🙂
FYI, For the lower FR end: Have a look at this suggestion using the Dayton driver:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/197297-t-line-box-idea-thoughts.html#post2725467
b🙂
this is a chest shaker
Hi bobo
If you can add $80 to your budget you can build two of thesehttp://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/213685-bass-my-soldier-10.html and you will get a lot of chest beating. The drivers used are b&c 18tbx100.Thanks to Oliver.
Hi bobo
If you can add $80 to your budget you can build two of thesehttp://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/213685-bass-my-soldier-10.html and you will get a lot of chest beating. The drivers used are b&c 18tbx100.Thanks to Oliver.
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Make sure you check out speakerplans.com, they are very PA focused. You are looking for a large single PA sub, and there are tons of designs out there. Scoops, tapped horns, bandpass horns, front horns........good luck.
Speakerplans.com Forums
Speakerplans.com Forums
So this gentleman made a 4x18" setup and looking to rid his 21"s.
He has a 21" 18Sound 21lw1400 for $375 shipped or 21" RCF LF21N451 for bit more.
Would a single 21" and a nice amp go beyond what I'm looking for (or should I stick to 18")? (I'm told the behringer EP4000 would be the right amp choice...)
If this is a great deal, what sub is worth it and at what price? I'd like to stick to a max of a 7cube enclosure...
He has a 21" 18Sound 21lw1400 for $375 shipped or 21" RCF LF21N451 for bit more.
Would a single 21" and a nice amp go beyond what I'm looking for (or should I stick to 18")? (I'm told the behringer EP4000 would be the right amp choice...)
If this is a great deal, what sub is worth it and at what price? I'd like to stick to a max of a 7cube enclosure...
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7 cubes is not "No restraints on enclosure size".....
Here's a 21" scoop, about 11 ft3 overall:
Speakerplans.com
21" tapped horn 18 ft3 overall:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/193418-othorn-tapped-horn.html
You could probably do a 21" 40hz TH, scoop, or BPH in under 10 cubes...
Originally was no restraint... yet now my roommates don't want such a large item in our main room.
Further I don't have the ability nor tools to build anything too intricate (horns, etc) Was just going to build a solid front facing sub and precision ports to tune to frequency.
Further I don't have the ability nor tools to build anything too intricate (horns, etc) Was just going to build a solid front facing sub and precision ports to tune to frequency.
Well....................
A normal ported design is certainly the easiest to design and get right. Nothing wrong with that. Depends on the woofer, but I'm thinking a 21" won't go all that low in 7 cubes.
Since this is for a living room, you may be able to consider a single fold tapped horn or TQWT, which results in tall enclosure with a small footprint, that fits into a corner well. For example, you could do a box 20"x24" footprint, 7 ft tall and get about 18 ft^3. That's pretty much an single folded version of the othorn linked to above, which should be very easy to build and will be insanely loud. A very basic single fold tapped horn takes about 7 pieces of wood (plus bracing), which you could get cut with a panel saw at home depot.
http://www.cowanaudio.com/th.html
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Something to consider, but they shot down my placement area because they want to use it for something else.
So basically I'm now looking at around 6-7 cubes for this smaller area left. Guessing I should ditch the idea of a 21" driver?
Otherwise, with prime shipping I could grab
Amazon.com: Eminence Kilomax Pro PA Replacement Speaker 18 Inches: Musical Instruments
and
Amazon.com: Behringer EUROPOWER EP4000 Professional 4,000-Watt Stereo Power Amplifier with Atr (Accelerated Transient Response) Technology: Musical Instruments
If they match up....
I'm still lost on the best setup to choose from 🙁 I just need the maximum earthquake feeling for techno/hip hop/dance music (without sounding shitty or distorted).
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I'd disagree.
Check out excursion vs frequency charts for ported boxes - excursion is large above port tuning, as well as below. A cabinet tuned for 40Hz performance will have lower distortion (due to reduced excursion) at 40Hz when compared to a similar system designed for 30Hz extension (still playing 40Hz), where the port (or quarter wave/whatever) resonance won't provide much loading for the cone.
Chris
As far as I know the amp is a common choice, should be fine. No idea on the sub. Read the comments here:
Eminence Kilomax Pro-18A 18" Cast Frame Driver 290-434
Also, be aware that 2x 15" drivers will be about 35% larger in cone area than a 18", and typically have more xmax. For example:
Dayton Audio TIT400C-4 15" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-420
One of those will move more air than the 18" due to twice the xmax, 2 of those 15's will move 2.5x the air of the 18". So if they model well in your enclosure size.....
Dayton Audio TIT400C-4 15" Titanic Mk III Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-420
One of those will move more air than the 18" due to twice the xmax, 2 of those 15's will move 2.5x the air of the 18". So if they model well in your enclosure size.....
If you want to build a beastly party sub, I can seriously recommend building a tapped horn. Especially since you pulled back on your "size no concern" point (otherwise I would have suggested a front loaded horn).
There are several good horn designs on this forum, for music/party you're not going to need to go lower than 35 or 40Hz. This design by XoC1 is pretty badass, but it's rather big (1m tall) and you'll need a ~350$ driver and about 2 sheets of 18mm ply (which is about 200 bucks where I live).
If that's too extreme, there's this design by jbell which used to be a real bargain with a 150$ driver, but due to neodymium price increases, it is currently a 250$ driver. Still, it only needs 1 sheet of 12mm ply, which is only 75 bucks here.
It plays down pretty solidly to 40Hz, and a single one will get you major kick indoors, placed in a corner, and you could probably even run it off the Bash amp you have, doesn't need more than 500W. it's about 75cm tall, so I doubt a 18" vented box would be much smaller.
It won't go as deep as a big 18" in a vented box, but will probably play louder with less power. And I assure you, the build complexity is very manageable, I built one without any angled cuts, so it's no more complicated than a sealed box, except that you need to cut 12 pieces instead of 6.
There are several good horn designs on this forum, for music/party you're not going to need to go lower than 35 or 40Hz. This design by XoC1 is pretty badass, but it's rather big (1m tall) and you'll need a ~350$ driver and about 2 sheets of 18mm ply (which is about 200 bucks where I live).
If that's too extreme, there's this design by jbell which used to be a real bargain with a 150$ driver, but due to neodymium price increases, it is currently a 250$ driver. Still, it only needs 1 sheet of 12mm ply, which is only 75 bucks here.
It plays down pretty solidly to 40Hz, and a single one will get you major kick indoors, placed in a corner, and you could probably even run it off the Bash amp you have, doesn't need more than 500W. it's about 75cm tall, so I doubt a 18" vented box would be much smaller.
It won't go as deep as a big 18" in a vented box, but will probably play louder with less power. And I assure you, the build complexity is very manageable, I built one without any angled cuts, so it's no more complicated than a sealed box, except that you need to cut 12 pieces instead of 6.
Thank you to everyone posting.
That Jbell design is very interesting... will definitely consider it. What's the advantage of building a tapped horn over a standard front facing driver with precision ports?
At the moment I'd like to do something in 6.5 cubes. If I can fit a single 18" driver/amp combo in that for under $650, great. I just don't know which combo to go with for max output.
Otherwise I shall consider 2 15"s..
That Jbell design is very interesting... will definitely consider it. What's the advantage of building a tapped horn over a standard front facing driver with precision ports?
At the moment I'd like to do something in 6.5 cubes. If I can fit a single 18" driver/amp combo in that for under $650, great. I just don't know which combo to go with for max output.
Otherwise I shall consider 2 15"s..
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