Hi everyone
This is my first post on DIY Audio. Reading a thread about op amps on DIY Audio (search LM4562 and John), based on what John had said I decided to get some LM4562 op amps to replace the stock op amps in the Shanling. I have never made any changes to my kit and don't have much experience of electronics.
Can anyone explain to me how I should install these new op amps. I am worried about the static and handling the op amps correctly. I have a static wrist strap for computer component installation (I imagine I can also use this for installing the op amps). How should I handle them, from the side of the chip?....Also, removing the old ones, do I just gently lift them out of the sockets? I know it sounds dumb but I want to know the right way to do this.
Thanks in advance for the help of forum members.
Cristian
This is my first post on DIY Audio. Reading a thread about op amps on DIY Audio (search LM4562 and John), based on what John had said I decided to get some LM4562 op amps to replace the stock op amps in the Shanling. I have never made any changes to my kit and don't have much experience of electronics.
Can anyone explain to me how I should install these new op amps. I am worried about the static and handling the op amps correctly. I have a static wrist strap for computer component installation (I imagine I can also use this for installing the op amps). How should I handle them, from the side of the chip?....Also, removing the old ones, do I just gently lift them out of the sockets? I know it sounds dumb but I want to know the right way to do this.
Thanks in advance for the help of forum members.
Cristian
Hi mate!
Just use a pair of pliars CAREFULLY to wriggle the existing chips free - they should come out quite easily. But always a good idea to take it slowly.
Perhaps stating the obvious here but... ALWAYS MAKE SURE ELECTRICITY IS OFF FIRST AND UNPLUGGED!!!!
The new chips should go in without any trouble, though you may need to bend the legs very slightly to get them to fit. Make sure that the dot/indentation at one end of the new chip always points towards the rear of the CD player when installing in these 3 locations.
You don't to take mega care with static electricity - don't worry too much. The strap should be more than enough. Touching one of the legs by mistake shouldn't cause any trouble.
Let me know what you think. I am swinging back to the OPA2132PA actually - starting to think the LM is a bit too mechanical sounding in this CD player.... I will be interested to see what you think.
- John
Just use a pair of pliars CAREFULLY to wriggle the existing chips free - they should come out quite easily. But always a good idea to take it slowly.
Perhaps stating the obvious here but... ALWAYS MAKE SURE ELECTRICITY IS OFF FIRST AND UNPLUGGED!!!!
The new chips should go in without any trouble, though you may need to bend the legs very slightly to get them to fit. Make sure that the dot/indentation at one end of the new chip always points towards the rear of the CD player when installing in these 3 locations.
You don't to take mega care with static electricity - don't worry too much. The strap should be more than enough. Touching one of the legs by mistake shouldn't cause any trouble.
Let me know what you think. I am swinging back to the OPA2132PA actually - starting to think the LM is a bit too mechanical sounding in this CD player.... I will be interested to see what you think.
- John
John
Thanks for the reply. I would have e-mailed you but I don't have enough posts to allow me to.
I got myself an IC extraction tool and fitted them with the strap (although I had the thing completely unplugged - I am not sure the strap was actually grounded, it was attached to the chassis of the player). I touched the legs several times, it was hard not to because I had to bend the legs (against a table edge as read on the internet!) to get them in. On one chip (the left bottom one looking from the front to the back the black bit is not completely level because I bent the legs on the right more than the left but the legs all seem to have 'engaged'). However, given I am not very experienced I made a bit of a mistake because at the same time as installing the op amps I installed some new Cyro treated tubes I got from e-bay (russian valves - i looked at NOS RCA 5670 and also some other tubes but these valves had very good feedback so I took the plunge and got them).
By the way, if I had screwed up the chips with static would this be noticeable in the sound? The actual sound seems very good even without any break in except for a new hum....(see below)
Recently I started to experiment with turning the digital volume down to about 20 and increasing the volume on my amp to 3/4 (it is a Dussun DS99 - if you like the Shanling you should give this a go, I think you got the Shanling from Ben I guess (I seem to remember the feedback on the site being about doing a review for the magazine and it was a guy named John so probably you are the same guy...) and he supplied me the Dussun and the Shanling. Increasing the volume I had read was meant to make it sound better (so I read on positive audio...). Well when I tried this with the new tube and LM4562 between the track changes I could hear a distinctive hum that I have never heard before...
Now it could be three things from my limited knowledge:
1) new tubes
2) oscillating op-amps (i read your posts on other op amps doing this)
3) overdriving the speakers....
As I was dumb enough to put two new changes in at the same time I don't know which one is causing the humming 🙂
What do you think. What is interesting is that if I put the digital volume back to 60-100 and have my Dussen up to 1/2 volume and no more the hum disappears....
If it is the 3) option I've read this can damage tweeters....I only did this for about 10 minutes and the volume was not loud - do you think this has likely damaged my tweeters?
Without any break in there is no doubt that either the new tubes or the LM4562 are doing something better. I am no audiophile but the instruments appear crisper and have more 'life' to them. I was listening to an Elton John track that has some harmonica and it was much more distinct and alive then before. It's funny though that you are switching back to something else 🙂 although luckily I got the LM4562 as free samples following your lead. I like the bass more as well and I can here what to my non audiophile ears sound like better separation with things like percussion instruments...
Any help you can give me on the humming issue would be great.
Also, for future reference when installing tubes do you just pull them straight out without holding the white plastic sockets (I just pulled them straight out - although getting the new ones did require more force than I thought with a very slight (if not excessive) PCB flex)....
Learning very slowly but learning none the less.
Thanks again for your reply
Cristian
Thanks for the reply. I would have e-mailed you but I don't have enough posts to allow me to.
I got myself an IC extraction tool and fitted them with the strap (although I had the thing completely unplugged - I am not sure the strap was actually grounded, it was attached to the chassis of the player). I touched the legs several times, it was hard not to because I had to bend the legs (against a table edge as read on the internet!) to get them in. On one chip (the left bottom one looking from the front to the back the black bit is not completely level because I bent the legs on the right more than the left but the legs all seem to have 'engaged'). However, given I am not very experienced I made a bit of a mistake because at the same time as installing the op amps I installed some new Cyro treated tubes I got from e-bay (russian valves - i looked at NOS RCA 5670 and also some other tubes but these valves had very good feedback so I took the plunge and got them).
By the way, if I had screwed up the chips with static would this be noticeable in the sound? The actual sound seems very good even without any break in except for a new hum....(see below)
Recently I started to experiment with turning the digital volume down to about 20 and increasing the volume on my amp to 3/4 (it is a Dussun DS99 - if you like the Shanling you should give this a go, I think you got the Shanling from Ben I guess (I seem to remember the feedback on the site being about doing a review for the magazine and it was a guy named John so probably you are the same guy...) and he supplied me the Dussun and the Shanling. Increasing the volume I had read was meant to make it sound better (so I read on positive audio...). Well when I tried this with the new tube and LM4562 between the track changes I could hear a distinctive hum that I have never heard before...
Now it could be three things from my limited knowledge:
1) new tubes
2) oscillating op-amps (i read your posts on other op amps doing this)
3) overdriving the speakers....
As I was dumb enough to put two new changes in at the same time I don't know which one is causing the humming 🙂
What do you think. What is interesting is that if I put the digital volume back to 60-100 and have my Dussen up to 1/2 volume and no more the hum disappears....
If it is the 3) option I've read this can damage tweeters....I only did this for about 10 minutes and the volume was not loud - do you think this has likely damaged my tweeters?
Without any break in there is no doubt that either the new tubes or the LM4562 are doing something better. I am no audiophile but the instruments appear crisper and have more 'life' to them. I was listening to an Elton John track that has some harmonica and it was much more distinct and alive then before. It's funny though that you are switching back to something else 🙂 although luckily I got the LM4562 as free samples following your lead. I like the bass more as well and I can here what to my non audiophile ears sound like better separation with things like percussion instruments...
Any help you can give me on the humming issue would be great.
Also, for future reference when installing tubes do you just pull them straight out without holding the white plastic sockets (I just pulled them straight out - although getting the new ones did require more force than I thought with a very slight (if not excessive) PCB flex)....
Learning very slowly but learning none the less.
Thanks again for your reply
Cristian
Impossible to say what the problem is, but the solution is easy:
Replace the op-amps with the originals again, and see if the hum is still there with the new tubes still in place.
If not you have a problem using those chips for some reason.
If it's still humming then replace the tubes with the stock items. Again if hum goes you know it's the tubes.
Did you make sure you pressed the chips firmly into the sockets, and same for the tubes?
Cheers,
- John
Replace the op-amps with the originals again, and see if the hum is still there with the new tubes still in place.
If not you have a problem using those chips for some reason.
If it's still humming then replace the tubes with the stock items. Again if hum goes you know it's the tubes.
Did you make sure you pressed the chips firmly into the sockets, and same for the tubes?
Cheers,
- John
"What do you think. What is interesting is that if I put the digital volume back to 60-100 and have my Dussen up to 1/2 volume and no more the hum disappears...."
Sorry missed this first time around. Frankly I would leave your Shanling at it's MAX volume level. That's how I use mine. The only time I'd use the digital volume control is when running it directly into a power amp. If the hum is gone like this then problem solved!
Re. valve bases yep just pulling the tubes out is fine. Again just take it slowly and wriggle them around slightly. A little bit of PCB flex is normal (mine does this to).
Enjoy the music - the Shanling is a great player!
- John
Sorry missed this first time around. Frankly I would leave your Shanling at it's MAX volume level. That's how I use mine. The only time I'd use the digital volume control is when running it directly into a power amp. If the hum is gone like this then problem solved!
Re. valve bases yep just pulling the tubes out is fine. Again just take it slowly and wriggle them around slightly. A little bit of PCB flex is normal (mine does this to).
Enjoy the music - the Shanling is a great player!
- John
Thanks and one last question
John
I thought you might say try one than the other 🙂. It is after all the logical thing to do.
For now I'll stick to the volume on max as you say as the hum is gone although when I get round to it I will try and swap the tubes as you say.
One last thing, when I opened up the case, i notice a funny green deposit on both the digital output and the pcb connector leading away from the on button (photos here:
http://www.mediamax.com/ccm7800/Hosted/DSCF0046.jpg
http://www.mediamax.com/ccm7800/Hosted/DSCF0047.jpg
)
f you (or any other readers) can tell me what this is I would appreciate it.
Once again, thanks and yes, I loved my Shanling before and hopefully with the mods I will love it even more.
For you info, setup is: Dussun DS99, Shanling CD-T80 and Rega R3 speakers (I felt this sounded great for �450..)
Cristian
John
I thought you might say try one than the other 🙂. It is after all the logical thing to do.
For now I'll stick to the volume on max as you say as the hum is gone although when I get round to it I will try and swap the tubes as you say.
One last thing, when I opened up the case, i notice a funny green deposit on both the digital output and the pcb connector leading away from the on button (photos here:
http://www.mediamax.com/ccm7800/Hosted/DSCF0046.jpg
http://www.mediamax.com/ccm7800/Hosted/DSCF0047.jpg
)
f you (or any other readers) can tell me what this is I would appreciate it.
Once again, thanks and yes, I loved my Shanling before and hopefully with the mods I will love it even more.
For you info, setup is: Dussun DS99, Shanling CD-T80 and Rega R3 speakers (I felt this sounded great for �450..)
Cristian
Re: Thanks and one last question
You are looking at glue to prevent the connectors from loosening.
Nothing abnormal.
/Hugo
ccm7800 said:
You are looking at glue to prevent the connectors from loosening.
Nothing abnormal.
/Hugo
Hi Cristian.
This may be of interest to you.
After months and months of listening and trying out different op-amps I have finally settled on the OPA2132PA! Decided the LM4562 - while a great op-amp - isn't so good in the Shanling's circuit AS IS. The circuit was designed with the OPA2604 which is a very different beast.
The OPA2132PA has a very natural, and full-bodied sound. It's particularly great with reproducing the sonic character of instruments, particularly in classical music. Decay of a piano or violin strings is quite superb. Piano in particular sounds FAR more realistic than I have ever heard before - with a satisfying weight to the sound. With Rock or Dance the bass performance is very well extended - probably the best I've yet heard from CD - you can actually hear a bass guitar being played rather than some woolly sounding 'one note' rendition which is quite often the case. For perhaps the first time bass on CD (for me) has a solid 'foundation' to the sound, much in the same way that a good vinyl system has. Vocals are very smooth and grain free - very natural sounding. It's a very musical sounding device now. It's not QUITE as detailed sounding as the LM4562, but overall to my ears it's a much better match for the Shanling's circuit design.
The LM4562s are undoubtedly a superior op-amp on paper, but in the context of the Shanling's circuit design (and here I'm referring to a circuit designed to maximise the stability and performance of the OPA chips) I think the OPA2132PA performs better. I really do feel like I'm getting the most out of the units sound now.
I like it so much I finally took out the op-amp sockets last night and soldered in the OPA2132PAs. They're there to stay now - one less variable/component to tweak now 😉
Let me know how you get on with your Shanling.
Cheers,
- John
This may be of interest to you.
After months and months of listening and trying out different op-amps I have finally settled on the OPA2132PA! Decided the LM4562 - while a great op-amp - isn't so good in the Shanling's circuit AS IS. The circuit was designed with the OPA2604 which is a very different beast.
The OPA2132PA has a very natural, and full-bodied sound. It's particularly great with reproducing the sonic character of instruments, particularly in classical music. Decay of a piano or violin strings is quite superb. Piano in particular sounds FAR more realistic than I have ever heard before - with a satisfying weight to the sound. With Rock or Dance the bass performance is very well extended - probably the best I've yet heard from CD - you can actually hear a bass guitar being played rather than some woolly sounding 'one note' rendition which is quite often the case. For perhaps the first time bass on CD (for me) has a solid 'foundation' to the sound, much in the same way that a good vinyl system has. Vocals are very smooth and grain free - very natural sounding. It's a very musical sounding device now. It's not QUITE as detailed sounding as the LM4562, but overall to my ears it's a much better match for the Shanling's circuit design.
The LM4562s are undoubtedly a superior op-amp on paper, but in the context of the Shanling's circuit design (and here I'm referring to a circuit designed to maximise the stability and performance of the OPA chips) I think the OPA2132PA performs better. I really do feel like I'm getting the most out of the units sound now.
I like it so much I finally took out the op-amp sockets last night and soldered in the OPA2132PAs. They're there to stay now - one less variable/component to tweak now 😉
Let me know how you get on with your Shanling.
Cheers,
- John
Thanks to the post from Hugo on the green deposit (just found it a bit odd that only in two places....
..............................
John
Thanks for the insight.
I love my vocals so if these op amps are better in your opinion they are worth a try. I have seen that the 2132 can be got in P or PA form. I have read that PA is the poorer cousin. Have you tried the 2132P's??
Also, how do you think is the best way to get these for free (samples from TI??)
Cristian
..............................
John
Thanks for the insight.
I love my vocals so if these op amps are better in your opinion they are worth a try. I have seen that the 2132 can be got in P or PA form. I have read that PA is the poorer cousin. Have you tried the 2132P's??
Also, how do you think is the best way to get these for free (samples from TI??)
Cristian
Mine are PAs and they sound fantastic - more than happy (and I'm difficult to please haha!). Soldered them into place now so no more op-amp upgrades for me - want to get back to enjoying the music 😉
I paid for mine alas via www.rswww.com
- John
I paid for mine alas via www.rswww.com
- John
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