Ok, I thought I knew enough about projectors to make this look nice, but I guess I don't. I have the InFocus LP280 projector, using my computer dvd as source. Connect it over SVideo for 800x600 resolution. Overlooking the crappification from the GF4 video output chip...
It looks a mess. The picture looks out of focus, despite having the projector focused perfectly. There is a grainyness to it, sort of pixely. It looks like a 320x240 Divx basically. And it's not from the video out of the computer. I've seen this video out on a tv, and I know the crappyness it adds. This is a different crappyness. Granted, I am only projecting on the wall, which is off-white at best. But still, I should be seeing a relatively clean 800x600 image. Black is not very black if I set the white point correctly. And the tint is tweaked to the purply side when it is adjusted as close as possible to the source, which might be the projector, since it doesn't have RGB adjustments, only tint.
Am I doing something wrong here? Any things I can try different or devices to add to increase the quality? Do I need something like a line doubler? Thanks!
It looks a mess. The picture looks out of focus, despite having the projector focused perfectly. There is a grainyness to it, sort of pixely. It looks like a 320x240 Divx basically. And it's not from the video out of the computer. I've seen this video out on a tv, and I know the crappyness it adds. This is a different crappyness. Granted, I am only projecting on the wall, which is off-white at best. But still, I should be seeing a relatively clean 800x600 image. Black is not very black if I set the white point correctly. And the tint is tweaked to the purply side when it is adjusted as close as possible to the source, which might be the projector, since it doesn't have RGB adjustments, only tint.
Am I doing something wrong here? Any things I can try different or devices to add to increase the quality? Do I need something like a line doubler? Thanks!
sigh, another realizes the true limitations to DIY projectors...
first off, try projecting onto something other than a wall. you cant tell what the hell it looks like unless you have a screen. this is the ONE part of the DIY projector that shouldnt be taken for granted.
secondly, if you are using an LCD projector, you will NEVER get true blacks, even if you buy a real one. lcd's just cant do blacks.
as far as the overall image quality goes, dont expect TOO much from a DIY projector. there is a GOOD reason these things are $3K and up. been there, done that.
this goes to ALL trying to make a DIY projector. learn up on this stuff, THEN decide what needs to be done. dont do it the other way around. i see so many people trying to find an LCD first, no knowing how to use it, let alone what features it will need to have. and then complaining becuase it looks bad. you need high resolution and high contrast for a screen to really look decent. that will cost you $$$. my advise to all, go out and buy a cheap orojector on ebay. or, look into some used projecotrs on projectorcentral.com.
its like spending $500 and 100 hours to get a pair of speakers that sound like the $200 pair that you could have bought at the store down the road. i personally plan on getting an infocus X1 projector near xmas time. for those of you REALLY wanting a projector (not those just wanting a cheap TV), goto www.infocus,.com and check out the X1. great specs, better price.
you can really throw some money into this project, and get little in return. save your money and your time. im not trying to discourage anyone, but this has been going on for about a year now, and quite frankly, im still seeing the SAME posts, "will this LCD do?, "what lighting source", "where to get projection lenses", etc...
do some reading guys. i see TOO many people trying the delta projection lenses, when it has been ESTABLISHED that it will distort the image because it is made for projecting a CRT (aka curved) image. secondly, laptop lcds arent cost effective, as a suitable controller would cost around $300 and frankly they are TOO BIG. next, the reason bulbs in commercial projectors cost so much is because they are awesome! we cant substitute for them! why is it that after 1 year of thousands of people reasearching, the best we can really hope for is the real thing, OR about 100000 LED's?
there is no easy answer to this one guys... if we could all just sit down and make a front projector for $200, wouldnt you see a whole lote more "i just finished my projector, see pics!" threads? ask yourself, when is the last time you saw that? i havent in around 4 months.
first off, try projecting onto something other than a wall. you cant tell what the hell it looks like unless you have a screen. this is the ONE part of the DIY projector that shouldnt be taken for granted.
secondly, if you are using an LCD projector, you will NEVER get true blacks, even if you buy a real one. lcd's just cant do blacks.
as far as the overall image quality goes, dont expect TOO much from a DIY projector. there is a GOOD reason these things are $3K and up. been there, done that.
this goes to ALL trying to make a DIY projector. learn up on this stuff, THEN decide what needs to be done. dont do it the other way around. i see so many people trying to find an LCD first, no knowing how to use it, let alone what features it will need to have. and then complaining becuase it looks bad. you need high resolution and high contrast for a screen to really look decent. that will cost you $$$. my advise to all, go out and buy a cheap orojector on ebay. or, look into some used projecotrs on projectorcentral.com.
its like spending $500 and 100 hours to get a pair of speakers that sound like the $200 pair that you could have bought at the store down the road. i personally plan on getting an infocus X1 projector near xmas time. for those of you REALLY wanting a projector (not those just wanting a cheap TV), goto www.infocus,.com and check out the X1. great specs, better price.
you can really throw some money into this project, and get little in return. save your money and your time. im not trying to discourage anyone, but this has been going on for about a year now, and quite frankly, im still seeing the SAME posts, "will this LCD do?, "what lighting source", "where to get projection lenses", etc...
do some reading guys. i see TOO many people trying the delta projection lenses, when it has been ESTABLISHED that it will distort the image because it is made for projecting a CRT (aka curved) image. secondly, laptop lcds arent cost effective, as a suitable controller would cost around $300 and frankly they are TOO BIG. next, the reason bulbs in commercial projectors cost so much is because they are awesome! we cant substitute for them! why is it that after 1 year of thousands of people reasearching, the best we can really hope for is the real thing, OR about 100000 LED's?
there is no easy answer to this one guys... if we could all just sit down and make a front projector for $200, wouldnt you see a whole lote more "i just finished my projector, see pics!" threads? ask yourself, when is the last time you saw that? i havent in around 4 months.
OK, since Delta's aren't good for flat screens, what models of lenses ARE? I've seen the brand Fujinon thrown around a few times on this forum, but not any particular models. Maybe people wouldn't keep using Delta lenses if someone who had a lot of experience with this (as you seem to) threw out some better suggestions.
I'd be willing to bet you can retrofit a standard MH bulb in place of the projector bulb. I'll be trying it in about a month
X1 ????????? the pull down screen
great price but.... wait a minute and lcd from infocus for less than $3000, less than $2000 hummmm
let's see where this comes from.
. . . .
right crap , the biggest crap you can think of
Chinese assembly, made of Korean and Malaysian parts
designed in ?? the EEC ???
ofcourse they had to come up with someting to try to compete on a price level, just as they did with the Overview 410 ohp, made by dukane, model 4003 but their sticker on the box!
I still think that a decent lcd projector should cost $4995, anything lower is just the same as a ohp plus panel.
my 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 cents exponential that is.
cowanrg said:
great price but.... wait a minute and lcd from infocus for less than $3000, less than $2000 hummmm
let's see where this comes from.
. . . .
right crap , the biggest crap you can think of
Chinese assembly, made of Korean and Malaysian parts
designed in ?? the EEC ???
ofcourse they had to come up with someting to try to compete on a price level, just as they did with the Overview 410 ohp, made by dukane, model 4003 but their sticker on the box!
I still think that a decent lcd projector should cost $4995, anything lower is just the same as a ohp plus panel.
my 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 cents exponential that is.
Re: X1 ????????? the pull down screen
Uvodee,
I'm trying to put this nicely, but you don't know what you are talking about. First off, the X1 is not an LCD, its DLP, and DLP are knocking the socks off of LCD. Second, prices are falling rapidly! I borrowed a DELL DLP projector from work, took it home and watched it on a sheet, with a screen size of 100 inches and it was phenomenal! And this was from a data projector, that I wasnt even running 720P on! (of which it is capable! and 1080i) All this from a projector that costs 2100 dollars! Outstanding! About it being crap Chinese assembly, made of Korean and Malaysian parts designed in ?? the EEC ??? Well they are offering a five year waranty with that crap, so your covered for a long time! Who knows where we will be in 5 years. You'll have probably moved this one to the kids room and get a another one in that five years!
No offense dude, but I think DLP is awesome, and this projector looks pretty good!
Tboy
uvodee said:
Uvodee,
I'm trying to put this nicely, but you don't know what you are talking about. First off, the X1 is not an LCD, its DLP, and DLP are knocking the socks off of LCD. Second, prices are falling rapidly! I borrowed a DELL DLP projector from work, took it home and watched it on a sheet, with a screen size of 100 inches and it was phenomenal! And this was from a data projector, that I wasnt even running 720P on! (of which it is capable! and 1080i) All this from a projector that costs 2100 dollars! Outstanding! About it being crap Chinese assembly, made of Korean and Malaysian parts designed in ?? the EEC ??? Well they are offering a five year waranty with that crap, so your covered for a long time! Who knows where we will be in 5 years. You'll have probably moved this one to the kids room and get a another one in that five years!
No offense dude, but I think DLP is awesome, and this projector looks pretty good!
Tboy
Oh, and the specs:
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 standard; 16:9 wide
Brightness: 1000 max ANSI lumens
Contrast Ratio: 2000:1 full on/full off
Data Compatibility: SVGA, VGA, XGA, Macintosh®
Display: DLP™ by Texas Instruments: 0.55" SVGA DDR DMD
Image Size (diagonal): 2.7’ to greater than 21.6’ (0.8m to greater than 6.5m)
Light Source: 150W SHP/ 3000 hours
Native Resolution: SVGA (800 x 600)
Projection Lens: Zoom lens with manual focus and manual zoom adjust
Projection Methods: Front, rear, ceiling
Video Compatibility: NTSC, PAL, SECAM, EDTV, HDTV (1080i and 720p RBGHV)
Maximum Projection Distance : 32.3’/ 9.8m
Minimum Projection Distance: 5’/ 1.5m
Zoom Ratio: 1.2:1
LOOK AT THAT ?!!! A 400:1 Contrast ratio! OOOOHHHHH!!!!!
Tboy
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 standard; 16:9 wide
Brightness: 1000 max ANSI lumens
Contrast Ratio: 2000:1 full on/full off
Data Compatibility: SVGA, VGA, XGA, Macintosh®
Display: DLP™ by Texas Instruments: 0.55" SVGA DDR DMD
Image Size (diagonal): 2.7’ to greater than 21.6’ (0.8m to greater than 6.5m)
Light Source: 150W SHP/ 3000 hours
Native Resolution: SVGA (800 x 600)
Projection Lens: Zoom lens with manual focus and manual zoom adjust
Projection Methods: Front, rear, ceiling
Video Compatibility: NTSC, PAL, SECAM, EDTV, HDTV (1080i and 720p RBGHV)
Maximum Projection Distance : 32.3’/ 9.8m
Minimum Projection Distance: 5’/ 1.5m
Zoom Ratio: 1.2:1
LOOK AT THAT ?!!! A 400:1 Contrast ratio! OOOOHHHHH!!!!!
Tboy
dlp
lcd oops dlp
you are soo right........
i guess it's the result of the projectors i have made the last 3 months that have deluded my brains!!!!!
lcd oops dlp
you are soo right........
i guess it's the result of the projectors i have made the last 3 months that have deluded my brains!!!!!
Re: dlp
I soooo wish I had the money to buy that sort of thing. If I had my car paid off, I'd probably go get on on credit!
uvodee said:
I soooo wish I had the money to buy that sort of thing. If I had my car paid off, I'd probably go get on on credit!
um, the X1 is actually 2000:1 contrast ratio. where did you get 400:1 from?
and another reason its so cheap, it uses a next generation DLP unit, which is better, and cheaper.
and another reason its so cheap, it uses a next generation DLP unit, which is better, and cheaper.
Tboy said:
even better? hehe, thats one of the highest on the market! entry level or otherwise. amazing deal really. curious to see review about it. even if it gets mediocre reviews, its still WELL worth the price.
however, i feel, as prices of projectors drop, the DIY community for projectors will drop as well.
however, i feel, as prices of projectors drop, the DIY community for projectors will drop as well.
Tboy said:
cowanrg said:
The problem with commercial projectors even if the price is very low is that the lamp replacement costs are sky high. A lamp for a unit like the one above will cost you between $300-$500 US which is almost a third of the price of the projector itself and the usable life is rated at 2000 hrs not accounting for the color shifting and darkening that occurs to these types of lamps over their usable life. When lamp replacements costs go down I'll take a more serious look at commercial projectors. I'd even be willing to buy a low lumen model if the lamps had a more reasonble replacement cost say of $50-$120 even if it used more electricity than the current batch.
Re: Re: X1 ????????? the pull down screen
ok that is why i watched, should i say tried to watch Spiderman on a LCD (no DLP) projector.. laughed myself all the way home..... $2,995. the movie is 3/4 in the dark : it is useless and money thrown in the garbage bag.....
some here have told me that i don't know what i am talking about, that is fine with me, but i always try to follow up by doing real stuff like getting after info and seeing with my own eyes, and making 3 diy projectors !!!!!!!! and selling them my dear!
Tboy said:
ok that is why i watched, should i say tried to watch Spiderman on a LCD (no DLP) projector.. laughed myself all the way home..... $2,995. the movie is 3/4 in the dark : it is useless and money thrown in the garbage bag.....
some here have told me that i don't know what i am talking about, that is fine with me, but i always try to follow up by doing real stuff like getting after info and seeing with my own eyes, and making 3 diy projectors !!!!!!!! and selling them my dear!
its almost like no one here went and ran the numbers yet...
let's all play the math game. the projector life is 3000 hours. lets assume you use it 2 whole hours a day (this is quite a bit really, for me anyway). at this rate, the bulb would last 4.1 years. lets just say that it will only last 1/2 that long (which would be stupid, but hey, why not?). if so, it would still last over 2 solid years of using it 2 hours a day!
you guys MUST be kidding when you are talking about lamp life... color shifting? so you recalibrate it once a year, big deal. chances are, under normal use, it would last 3 years. and after 3 years the bulbs might be like $40! or, worst case, you sell the projector to someone on ebay. either way, you get a projector that doesnt look like absolute sh** and you dont have to spend countless hours in a forum coming to the same dead-end conclusion.
sorry to sound negative everyone, but i just think with the price coming down on projectors, its a brain-dead decision. im gonna see how this unit looks in person, but ive seen some of the others, and they look great! the new DLP's are looking good.
let's all play the math game. the projector life is 3000 hours. lets assume you use it 2 whole hours a day (this is quite a bit really, for me anyway). at this rate, the bulb would last 4.1 years. lets just say that it will only last 1/2 that long (which would be stupid, but hey, why not?). if so, it would still last over 2 solid years of using it 2 hours a day!
you guys MUST be kidding when you are talking about lamp life... color shifting? so you recalibrate it once a year, big deal. chances are, under normal use, it would last 3 years. and after 3 years the bulbs might be like $40! or, worst case, you sell the projector to someone on ebay. either way, you get a projector that doesnt look like absolute sh** and you dont have to spend countless hours in a forum coming to the same dead-end conclusion.
sorry to sound negative everyone, but i just think with the price coming down on projectors, its a brain-dead decision. im gonna see how this unit looks in person, but ive seen some of the others, and they look great! the new DLP's are looking good.
checker said:
cowanrg said:
You sound like a projector salesman. I can't speak for everyone, but I think I do speak for the majority here when I say I want my projector to replace my living room TV and computer display. For me (and most people) that means 3 - 6 hours of use per day.
Secondly, you're lucky if your projector has a 3000 hour bulb life. Most are 2000 or less, and I've seen many that are only 1000. So realistically, you're going to be replacing bulbs every 6 - 12 months with a typical commercial projector used in a home entertainment system.
3-6 hours a day at least? go outside or get a job 🙂 im not even really home that much! (when im awake anyway)
i guess my thing is this, if you watch so much tv, why not go out and BUY a good tv? for ~$1,500 you can get a decent rear projection big screen. you can surely MAKE your own projector, but we all know it will end up looking, well, homemade.
i guess my thing is this, if you watch so much tv, why not go out and BUY a good tv? for ~$1,500 you can get a decent rear projection big screen. you can surely MAKE your own projector, but we all know it will end up looking, well, homemade.
I don't know why your so negative about this. First of all, 3-6 hours a day is not much when you consider that it's for computer use as well as TV and movies. I'd say a lot of people spend 3 hours a day watching TV and using a computer. One football game is almost 3 hours. Now consider the fact that maybe more than one person uses it. Maybe an entire family.
But despite all that I agree with you that a bulb replacement isn't something to worry too much about. Even if it only lasts a year, it would still be worth it. It's just uncalled for to tell someone to "go outside" when you don't know how it will be used. And I still think buying a low-end projector like the X-1 is inferior to what could be acomplished DIY.
The X-1 is $1700. That's still a lot of money for something that's not that good. Sure, it's bright, and it's black levels are awesome, but it's probably made from the cheapest parts available, and worst of all, it has a native resolution of 800x600. That sucks- badly. SVGA looks like crap on a 17" monitor. 80" would be dreadful. It's fine for people spending $200 on a panel projector, but not for $1700.
How can you say a $1700 projector is cheap while saying that a $300 controller card is too expensive? Personally, I think using a laptop screen for 800x600 or 1024x768 is a waste of time and money since there are projection panels available that already do that. But a DIY projector using a native SXGA or UXGA panel would be worth $1000- even if it was only good for dark rooms.
Despite what people keep repeating, it is very difficult to find basic information in this forum. If the FAQ was updated and more informative, you'd see a lot less of the same thing being repeated. Getting a bare LCD to work with a computer is by no means rocket science because I did it 3 years ago.
But despite all that I agree with you that a bulb replacement isn't something to worry too much about. Even if it only lasts a year, it would still be worth it. It's just uncalled for to tell someone to "go outside" when you don't know how it will be used. And I still think buying a low-end projector like the X-1 is inferior to what could be acomplished DIY.
The X-1 is $1700. That's still a lot of money for something that's not that good. Sure, it's bright, and it's black levels are awesome, but it's probably made from the cheapest parts available, and worst of all, it has a native resolution of 800x600. That sucks- badly. SVGA looks like crap on a 17" monitor. 80" would be dreadful. It's fine for people spending $200 on a panel projector, but not for $1700.
How can you say a $1700 projector is cheap while saying that a $300 controller card is too expensive? Personally, I think using a laptop screen for 800x600 or 1024x768 is a waste of time and money since there are projection panels available that already do that. But a DIY projector using a native SXGA or UXGA panel would be worth $1000- even if it was only good for dark rooms.
Despite what people keep repeating, it is very difficult to find basic information in this forum. If the FAQ was updated and more informative, you'd see a lot less of the same thing being repeated. Getting a bare LCD to work with a computer is by no means rocket science because I did it 3 years ago.
is it true that comercial lcd projectors are limited by the fact you can't have it on for more than a couple of hours continuously (2-3 hours i think).
delusion602, I too want it to replace my tv.
delusion602, I too want it to replace my tv.
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