HELP!! high end mastering speakers

[aswhitehead]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone could help me find a high end speaker kit suitable for mastering audio. I am building a mastering room and was wanting to get some large super high end speakers but the prices scare me (duntech, dunlavy, ect...) I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of a kit or plans for a speaker of this calibre. Would really appreciate it.

Thanks
Scott

 

[Super]

Just wondering, how much do you have to spend approximately? http://www.zalytron.com was recently mentioned in a prior post as a place to get high quality, "audiophile grade" speaker kits. Remember, bigger isnt necessarily better. There's a lot more to getting the "best" sound out of speakers than just building a quality pair. You can spend hundreds, even thousands of hours tweaking your speakers, but this is all effected by your other components and listening area.

 

[vdi_nenna]

I have a magazine with 19 high end designs. 2 were studio monitors: one used Seas drivers and the other used Scan-Speak drivers. The tweeter was the Revelator and the 6 1/2" woofer was an 85xx. I can't remember exactly. Complete construction w/ x-over, and sound description.

If you want the magazine, you can pick it up from http://www.audioXpress.com. It was about $10. I could email the 2 articals if you'd like.

Vince

I just checked the site and they sold out.
Speaker Builder Projects #1

[Edited by vdi_nenna on 08-14-2001 at 09:59 PM]

 

[Eric]

While I have not purchased kits from either of these two, I have been researching this for a future project. It seems that two of the best kit manufacturers around are <a href="http://www.northcreekmusic.com/">NorthCreek</a> and <a href="http://www.bamberglab.com/pr_home.htm">Bamberg Labs</a>. Both of these kit makers primarily uses Scan-Speak drivers and can hand match drivers and cross over components to within 1% or 0.5% or something like that. Top kits from each source run about $1500 per pair.

Its important to note that neither of these two designs will produce deep bass down into the last octave. If this is important, you may want to look elsewhere or consider adding a sub. Be sure to check out the kits over at <a href="http://www.snippets.org/ldsg/sect-16.php3">LDGS</a>


[Edited by Eric on 08-15-2001 at 10:04 AM]

 

[haldor]

Hi Eric,

You might want to check out what the guys at http://www.prorec.com/ have to say about mixdown and mastering monitors. The key to getting a good mix is not using the most perfect speakers possible, but rather to be able to hear the sound the way the buying public is going to hear it. Unfortunately this includes car stereo's and boom boxes. Most of your customers aren't going to be using audiophile quality gear and if you mix for that market you are going to go out of business very quickly.

The most popular studio monitor (based on the number of speakers installed in working studio's) is the Yamaha NS-10. This is actually a pretty crappy speaker with poor bass response, but that doesn't really matter since just about any pro mix engineer can use them to get a usable mix.

The key is to train your ears to be able to get a usable mix with your monitors. That means listening to the result on a range of systems and figuring out what you have to be carefull with. If you are planning on making a career in the recording industry then it would pay to pick something that is already popular in the industry so you can be productive when you walk into someone else's studio.

Genelec, Tanoy, Mackie and Yamaha all make well respected studio monitors. If you are going to spend any real money you should look at them.

Phil

 

[vdi_nenna]

The requirements for recording and mixing are different. In either case you need a reference speaker that tells you exactly that's going on in the mix. NS-10 are never the main monitors. To get an idea on what a real mastering studio uses, look at the ultimate system Bob Ludwig uses.

 

[Sawzall]

Pick up a copy of Mix

It will tell you the market. Having just heard just about all of them at NAB this year, IF I had the money, I would stick with the Genelec. It played just about everybodys stuff equally well. Secondly, having heard about 80 different audio broadcast mixes (at studio, not over the air) over them recently, they work pretty well with all of it. Near field and mid field.

They ain't cheap. But if I was buying, there would be it.

 

[haldor]

NS-10 are never the main monitors. To get an idea on what a real mastering studio uses, look at the ultimate system Bob Ludwig uses. [/B]

I have certainly seen a lot of NS-10's in recording studios. Why would people spend the money to buy them and the time to install them if they don't use them?

The point I was trying to make is that audio perfection is not the primary goal in a studio monitor. It is very easy to get fooled by speakers that are dramatically better than what the listening public is using. The mix has to sound good on all kinds of sound equipment. The advice I saw was to go for a high end audiophile speaker system and that's not what's correct for this task.

The issue isn't money, a good pair of powered studio monitors (like Genelec, they are the best) can run you several thousand dollars, but I doubt if very many of the readers of this board would consider them the ultimate in sound quality. What they do provide is an extremely accurate and consistant sound reproduction at a wide range of sound levels with a minimal amount of coloration.

I know engineers who can mix with headphones (I can't), I also know engineers who listen to mix on a a pair of NS-10's and make minor adjustments I can barely hear that make the sound come alive when played through a boom box. The point is that a monitor is only usefull after you have spent a lot of time educating your ears to be able to understand the sound it provides. Unless you are planning on never working outside of your little home studio, it doesn't make sense to spend that much time learning a speaker system that you will never see anywhere else.

Phil

 

[vdi_nenna]

They are used more than any other monitor, but they are not usually the main monitors. They are a standard, but not a reference. Someone somewhere, sometime said wow, these are good for mixing and they catch on. Soon enough everyone had them as a standard. It's like Lexicon is a standard for reverb, or sm-57 or 58 is for guitar mike and vocals.

There are probably 100 better mikes but they are a standard because they are studio and touring proven.

Mastering is not the same as recording tracks and put them into a mix. But you probably know this anyway.

I interned for 2.5 years in a large studio in Philadelphia while I worked on my undergrad. Every studio had NS-10 or some flavor of it. But ALL had main monitors where the majority of the work is done. NS-10 give you another perspective. The studio I interned for directly used 3 monitors. KRK's, Genelecs, and NS-10's for near-field montoring. Studio 1 had some gigantic set of mons and NS-10's and they had an old time radio w/ one 4" speaker that ran a mono mix for a completely different perspective. All connected to a Neve board that cost 1.5 million dollars at the time, because there were only 3 like it in the country.

It's all about perspective. What's the final mix going to sound like. But to lay down good tracks and to finally put it all together, you need a really good reference.

Scott wrote, "help me find a high end speaker kit suitable for mastering audio" If he would have said, "I need a recommendation on a set of mix speakers? What should I look at? I would have said, KRK, Genelec, Event, JBL, And Yamaha. But that's not what he wrote.

Just for fun, take a look at http://www.wilsonaudio.com

I don't disagree w/ NS-10's. I would get a set too if I were setting up my studio.

 

[haldor]

Hi vdi_nenna,

I can buy that. The SM58 is one of my least favorite vocal mics and it is absolutely everywhere. Although I do confess to a weakness for an SM57 on the snare, along with about 10,000 other engineers. ;^)

I confess I don't know much that much about mastering. The few times I've tried it on my own mixes I've ended up regretted it. By the time I've got a track ready for mastering I've listened to it far too many times to be objective anymore. This is something I farm out to one of my buddies now.

Sorry if I came off sounding bull headed. I'm not Gods gift to the recording studio (I find I'm doing more live sound now anyways), but I have seen too many guys thinking equipment can make up for experiance and training. In the end it's not the monitors that are important, it's knowing what the sound you are hearing in the monitors means (and what to do about it) that matters.

Peace

Phil

 

[vdi_nenna]

There is no substitute for well recorded tracks. Without it, everything else falls apart. Fixing it in the mix is a joke when your foundation is garbage.

This is why I'm into DIY. So I can hear what the mix engineer heard when the session was done. Can't buy the high priced gear, and won't now. It's the reason I like simple circuits. Shortest path from my cd to the speakers.

It easy to understand why people develope preferences and opinions when you examine your own obsessions for an art like this.

Vince