Hi all,
In relation to valve amps I must confess I am a newbie, although being a musician Im not totally stupid, when I hear a good pair of speakers or good amp, I know the difference. Im looking to finally bite the bullet and buy a decent amp, after spending $4k on speakers i really want to do them justice and buy a decent 2 channel amp. I realise that valves can go from $500-70000 and the amount of name and unknown brands is just huge, and alot of the OS brands (i am in australia) I wouldnt get the chance to hear, and therefore would be wary of buying without hearing them. My budget is around $2500 AU (940 pounds $2100 US)
I would appreciate some input into amps around that price that people would recommend, preferable integrated so that I didnt need a pre-amp as well, any websites, good sellers, brands contact information would really be appreciated guys.
thx
hyper
In relation to valve amps I must confess I am a newbie, although being a musician Im not totally stupid, when I hear a good pair of speakers or good amp, I know the difference. Im looking to finally bite the bullet and buy a decent amp, after spending $4k on speakers i really want to do them justice and buy a decent 2 channel amp. I realise that valves can go from $500-70000 and the amount of name and unknown brands is just huge, and alot of the OS brands (i am in australia) I wouldnt get the chance to hear, and therefore would be wary of buying without hearing them. My budget is around $2500 AU (940 pounds $2100 US)
I would appreciate some input into amps around that price that people would recommend, preferable integrated so that I didnt need a pre-amp as well, any websites, good sellers, brands contact information would really be appreciated guys.
thx
hyper
This is your first post, so welcome 
How efficient are your speakers? The type of amp you would need varies greatly if they're 88dB or 98dB!
Also, would you consider building one from a kit or from scratch?
I know what you mean. Valve amps aren't that common in hifi stores round here either... which is rather sad 🙁
Jason
How efficient are your speakers? The type of amp you would need varies greatly if they're 88dB or 98dB!
Also, would you consider building one from a kit or from scratch?
I know what you mean. Valve amps aren't that common in hifi stores round here either... which is rather sad 🙁
Jason
talk about buying....
I would find a good builder, tell him what I like and pay him to do it for me. Youre saving a lot that way, and it helps the DIY business.
Your budget allocation is good, %wise.
I would find a good builder, tell him what I like and pay him to do it for me. Youre saving a lot that way, and it helps the DIY business.
Your budget allocation is good, %wise.
Gossip
Choky, like it or not, you too will likely end up an old fart!
It's Mother Nature's little joke on all cocky young men😀
Brian (who achieved the state earlier than most!)
Choky, like it or not, you too will likely end up an old fart!
It's Mother Nature's little joke on all cocky young men😀
Brian (who achieved the state earlier than most!)
Reply Audiophile advice needed
Thanks guys really appreciate your input ok, here are the specs of my speakers hand made in south australia
Demensions 106hx22wx33d
impedence 6 ohms
freq response 32hz-22khz
rec amp to > 350w
weight 39kg each ( yes led lined)
distortion < 0.7 % thd 1 watt/8 ohms
inter driver time alignment 8us
BI-WIRABLE 3 way
SENSITIVITY 89db
as already mentioned in this tread australia blows for choice, uk seems to have so many more valves to have the oppurtunity to test, to answer one of the guys who replied "yes" I would love to build it myself, but sadly I know nothing about electronics myself so Im sure I would f%^k it up. Hopefully these specs might give
you more info as to what I will be running through, the brand is sonique but not many people have heard of them therefore I didnt mention it earlier
Thanks guys really appreciate your input ok, here are the specs of my speakers hand made in south australia
Demensions 106hx22wx33d
impedence 6 ohms
freq response 32hz-22khz
rec amp to > 350w
weight 39kg each ( yes led lined)
distortion < 0.7 % thd 1 watt/8 ohms
inter driver time alignment 8us
BI-WIRABLE 3 way
SENSITIVITY 89db
as already mentioned in this tread australia blows for choice, uk seems to have so many more valves to have the oppurtunity to test, to answer one of the guys who replied "yes" I would love to build it myself, but sadly I know nothing about electronics myself so Im sure I would f%^k it up. Hopefully these specs might give
you more info as to what I will be running through, the brand is sonique but not many people have heard of them therefore I didnt mention it earlier
Hi again,
Yes, I have heard of Sonique. Do you have the 7.5? I think this one uses SEAS drivers from Norway like the VAF 'Signature' series (the copper phase plugs are kinda a giveaway). And yes, Australia does "blow" when it comes to choices in valve amps if you're not building them yourself! 😀
Sonique also has their Micrex range of hybrid amps. But hybrid is heresy!
It's a shame that the sensitivity is so low. If it were higher, I could suggest a simple single-ended amp, which would make it easier for someone who knows nothing of electronics (but can solder).
At 89dB, you're probably going to need >20W, and at that power level things get complicated. You either need push-pull (and associated greater complexity), or single-ended amps using voltages around 1000V which are terribly unsafe
I suppose a beginner could manage a PP amp, but you'd have to be pretty fearless to attempt building something like this as a first project unless you've got a kit.
The choice of new valve amps being what it is in this country, you're either going to have to get a kit, or buy an used one and attempt restoration.
Vintage amps can be hard to come by, and a bit variable in state of repair, so a kit is not such a bad option. DiyHiFi Supply has the Ella kit, which would end up costing around A$1000 (inc. delivery), and provides 40W. I have neither seen nor heard this amp, and thus have no idea of its 'sound'. (I tend to build and design my own...)
In any case, valve amps aren't usually complicated. You can see the inside of the Ella kit here.
Jason
Yes, I have heard of Sonique. Do you have the 7.5? I think this one uses SEAS drivers from Norway like the VAF 'Signature' series (the copper phase plugs are kinda a giveaway). And yes, Australia does "blow" when it comes to choices in valve amps if you're not building them yourself! 😀
Sonique also has their Micrex range of hybrid amps. But hybrid is heresy!
It's a shame that the sensitivity is so low. If it were higher, I could suggest a simple single-ended amp, which would make it easier for someone who knows nothing of electronics (but can solder).
At 89dB, you're probably going to need >20W, and at that power level things get complicated. You either need push-pull (and associated greater complexity), or single-ended amps using voltages around 1000V which are terribly unsafe
I suppose a beginner could manage a PP amp, but you'd have to be pretty fearless to attempt building something like this as a first project unless you've got a kit.
The choice of new valve amps being what it is in this country, you're either going to have to get a kit, or buy an used one and attempt restoration.
Vintage amps can be hard to come by, and a bit variable in state of repair, so a kit is not such a bad option. DiyHiFi Supply has the Ella kit, which would end up costing around A$1000 (inc. delivery), and provides 40W. I have neither seen nor heard this amp, and thus have no idea of its 'sound'. (I tend to build and design my own...)
In any case, valve amps aren't usually complicated. You can see the inside of the Ella kit here.
Jason
I'm not sure where this comes from. I am an old guy who grew up in an era when there was nothing but p-p amps (and early transistor stuff, the less said about, the better), and people still seemed to build stuff, maybe even at a greater rate than today. My first scratch-built amp was a Williamson variant (I was probably 14 or 15 then), and lots of others had the same experience.
My own opinion is, if you want an amp that tailors the sound in a certain way, building an SE can make sense. If you're looking for something more neutral, p-p is the way to go. Once you're committed to drilling, sawing, punching, snipping, and soldering, there's not that much difference in difficulty.
Thanks Jason,
really appreciate your input, does the sensitivity of my speakers, relate to quality at all? Personally ( not sales rep driven as he was trying to sell me a pair of tannoys that cost 2k more) that the sonique sounded great, i really couldnt find anything in the price range, dyneaudio, quad, epos that matched them. So Im assuming i will need something with a w rating of 30-60 then, its kinda frustrating not knowing **** about valve stereo.
Especially being a muso, someone can play something and I can tell them exactly what chod progs they can play to resolve or be in key with what they are playing, Ive got my ac30 vox, fact I know it sounds great I listen to some **** like a pevey and I think harsh top freq heavy sh*t.
But now I am lost! Maybe I should just go the easy way out and buy the mono bloc quads, although it pains me to let go of that amount of cash when more then likely there are 100's of products that sound just as good if not better at half the price! btw where in oz are ya from??? Yeah the speakers are the 7.5se's
If i bought a kit and got stuck do u know of any good audio tech's that deal with valves in oz?
really appreciate your input, does the sensitivity of my speakers, relate to quality at all? Personally ( not sales rep driven as he was trying to sell me a pair of tannoys that cost 2k more) that the sonique sounded great, i really couldnt find anything in the price range, dyneaudio, quad, epos that matched them. So Im assuming i will need something with a w rating of 30-60 then, its kinda frustrating not knowing **** about valve stereo.
Especially being a muso, someone can play something and I can tell them exactly what chod progs they can play to resolve or be in key with what they are playing, Ive got my ac30 vox, fact I know it sounds great I listen to some **** like a pevey and I think harsh top freq heavy sh*t.
But now I am lost! Maybe I should just go the easy way out and buy the mono bloc quads, although it pains me to let go of that amount of cash when more then likely there are 100's of products that sound just as good if not better at half the price! btw where in oz are ya from??? Yeah the speakers are the 7.5se's
If i bought a kit and got stuck do u know of any good audio tech's that deal with valves in oz?
SY,
Of course Hyper could build a PP amp. It's just that they have more parts, and are a little more confusing when you don't know much about electronics.
I'm not such an old guy and the only things I had around when I was growing up were Japanese mass market SS stuff - the kind of stuff which now comes from China and litters electronic chain stores everywhere. Valves (and vinyl for that matter) were "dead" by the time I knew what they were. When I show a valve to any of my friends I have to explain what the darned thing is!
That being said, Hyper could read up a bit about valve circuits and it would then become quite easy... (I find it much easier to solder things in the right place when I know what it's doing there) but then he wouldn't be a complete beginner anymore! 😀
Hyper,
Sadly I don't know any audio techs who deal with valves in Australia. Acutally, I don't know anyone who deals with valves round here (except the people I buy the valves from). I'm sure there are some, but I don't know of any.
No, sensitivity does not measure quality in itself. It measures the amount of sound you get out for a given power input, and nothing more. It's just that the less sensitive the speakers are, the more power you will need, and hence the larger (and generally more complex and expensive) the amp will have to be.
In my opinion, you're in a bit of a bind here. You clearly want a valve amp (and who wouldn't 😉 ) but it seems like you've either got to take a little time to figure out how to build your own, or go buy one. When it comes to buying amps, I am clueless because I don't have the kind of money to buy them, so I never gave it a thought. Patrick Turner of Turner Audio in the national capital may have something. I have heard that Hugh Dean of Aspen Amplifiers might do some custom valve jobs, but I'm not completely sure. In any case, both might be outside your budget.
If you have an amp that will keep you happy for the time being, I would suggest you take a little time to learn how to build your own. Circuits look real complicated when you first see them, but they're really just pictures of how things are connected. Morgan Jones' book. Valve Amplifiers is a good place to start (I am a serial borrower of this at the local library...)
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...
Jason
Of course Hyper could build a PP amp. It's just that they have more parts, and are a little more confusing when you don't know much about electronics.
I'm not such an old guy and the only things I had around when I was growing up were Japanese mass market SS stuff - the kind of stuff which now comes from China and litters electronic chain stores everywhere. Valves (and vinyl for that matter) were "dead" by the time I knew what they were. When I show a valve to any of my friends I have to explain what the darned thing is!
That being said, Hyper could read up a bit about valve circuits and it would then become quite easy... (I find it much easier to solder things in the right place when I know what it's doing there) but then he wouldn't be a complete beginner anymore! 😀
Hyper,
Sadly I don't know any audio techs who deal with valves in Australia. Acutally, I don't know anyone who deals with valves round here (except the people I buy the valves from). I'm sure there are some, but I don't know of any.
No, sensitivity does not measure quality in itself. It measures the amount of sound you get out for a given power input, and nothing more. It's just that the less sensitive the speakers are, the more power you will need, and hence the larger (and generally more complex and expensive) the amp will have to be.
In my opinion, you're in a bit of a bind here. You clearly want a valve amp (and who wouldn't 😉 ) but it seems like you've either got to take a little time to figure out how to build your own, or go buy one. When it comes to buying amps, I am clueless because I don't have the kind of money to buy them, so I never gave it a thought. Patrick Turner of Turner Audio in the national capital may have something. I have heard that Hugh Dean of Aspen Amplifiers might do some custom valve jobs, but I'm not completely sure. In any case, both might be outside your budget.
If you have an amp that will keep you happy for the time being, I would suggest you take a little time to learn how to build your own. Circuits look real complicated when you first see them, but they're really just pictures of how things are connected. Morgan Jones' book. Valve Amplifiers is a good place to start (I am a serial borrower of this at the local library...)
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...
Jason
Jason, a strong "ditto" on Jones. The functions of classic circuits will become much clearer. And everything that one can find by Norman Crowhurst. Later on, one can go to the Ur-sources like RDH and Valley/Wallman.
But I would still argue that the delta difference in difficulty between p-p and SE isn't large compared to the difference in the sound and the types of speakers most suitable. The decision on which way to go ought, IMHO, to be more influenced by the desired results than the process. I might be influenced a bit by my fear, dislike, and total lack of talent for metalworking...
BTW and OT, I claim priority over the use of "boring" in a user profile!😉
But I would still argue that the delta difference in difficulty between p-p and SE isn't large compared to the difference in the sound and the types of speakers most suitable. The decision on which way to go ought, IMHO, to be more influenced by the desired results than the process. I might be influenced a bit by my fear, dislike, and total lack of talent for metalworking...
BTW and OT, I claim priority over the use of "boring" in a user profile!😉
You might check with Joe Rassmussen. He's in your corner of the word. He has some hybrid stuff, but may have a line on tube gear too.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~joeras/index.html
Sheldon
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~joeras/index.html
Sheldon
SY said:
I would also think that P-P would probably be more suitable for his speakers anyway, and yes - I do admit the difference in difficulty is not that great.
Delta difference? You need to get out more 😀
SY said:
Perhaps you just are fearful, dislike and have no talent for metalwork with poor tools.
SY said:
OK, not quite as boring as you 😛
talking bout ella..
I dont find that kit too apealing. Is just another mass-amp which sings. Not worthy being matched with your speakers.
Like what I said: find a good builder and get him to custom-make something for you. You save a lot, and dont have to get your hands dirty.
I dont find that kit too apealing. Is just another mass-amp which sings. Not worthy being matched with your speakers.
Like what I said: find a good builder and get him to custom-make something for you. You save a lot, and dont have to get your hands dirty.
Re: talking bout ella..
That's part of the problem right there. Check out Turner Audio's site, which I posted earlier. It would probably cost twice his budget.
skyraider said:
That's part of the problem right there. Check out Turner Audio's site, which I posted earlier. It would probably cost twice his budget.
Thanks for all the helps guys, well with my budget its somewhere in between a manley and a shanling, yes a chinese made valve but i went and had a listen the other day and to my surprise it was a great sounding unit (for the price) about $2700 aus. So Im going to look around for another week or so and make my decision, im trying to track down somewhere to get a listen to the manley.
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