Hello, I bought a pair of Peerless SDS-160F25PR01-08 and a pair of XT25BG60-04 and I know how to build speakers cabinets but very bad designing them, somebody can help me with the xo schematics and box design please?
I am looking something like this pic.
I am looking something like this pic.
Hornresp MLTL design based on a FR driver/woofer ~38" seated ear height attached to view, modify or tell us what you want dimensionally changed.
Your Peerless woofer has almost the same specs and FR/ZMA profile as the Peerless 830657, but has more Xmax. I've done test builds with both and couldn't tell the difference sound-wise. For me, they can be regarded as interchangeable. They both need a large vented cabinet to provide good bass extension.
Here's a link to a Dutch DIY project which uses the 830657 with a different tweeter to yours, in a MLTL cabinet:
https://zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15285
And a link to a German DIY project using the 830657 in a vented cabinet. my test build was based on this design - same tweeter - but I found the standard crossover too bright and played around with a bit:
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/startairkit_en.htm
I'm not aware of any designs which use your tweeter.
Geoff
Here's a link to a Dutch DIY project which uses the 830657 with a different tweeter to yours, in a MLTL cabinet:
https://zelfbouwaudio.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15285
And a link to a German DIY project using the 830657 in a vented cabinet. my test build was based on this design - same tweeter - but I found the standard crossover too bright and played around with a bit:
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/startairkit_en.htm
I'm not aware of any designs which use your tweeter.
Geoff
I tried editing the previous post but time ran out.
I think you're looking at this project, which uses the same tweeter but the Peerless 830875 woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-830875-6-1-2-Nomex-Cone-HDS-Woofer-264-1092
https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/birthday-build/
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-SDS-160F25PR01-08-6-1-2-Paper-Cone-Woofer-Speaker-264-1146
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-830875-6-1-2-Nomex-Cone-HDS-Woofer-264-1092
Based purely on an Xsim model I made using fptrace from the supplied graphs, the 830875 and SDS160 have very similar FR and ZMA profiles. The main spec differences seem to be that the 830875 plays 2dB louder and can use a smaller vented cabinet.
How they compare sound-wise is another matter: I'm sure the Nomex cone, etc of the dearer woofer will make a difference in detail and character.
View attachment 1100397
View attachment 1100398
This does not mean that you could use the same crossover as the one on Parts Express for your project, and you don't know how that sounds anyway.
However, you could try using it as the basis and having a play with various parts values.
Please note that I know close to zero about speaker and crossover design, these are just ideas.
Geoff
I think you're looking at this project, which uses the same tweeter but the Peerless 830875 woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-830875-6-1-2-Nomex-Cone-HDS-Woofer-264-1092
https://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/birthday-build/
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-SDS-160F25PR01-08-6-1-2-Paper-Cone-Woofer-Speaker-264-1146
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-830875-6-1-2-Nomex-Cone-HDS-Woofer-264-1092
Based purely on an Xsim model I made using fptrace from the supplied graphs, the 830875 and SDS160 have very similar FR and ZMA profiles. The main spec differences seem to be that the 830875 plays 2dB louder and can use a smaller vented cabinet.
How they compare sound-wise is another matter: I'm sure the Nomex cone, etc of the dearer woofer will make a difference in detail and character.
View attachment 1100397
View attachment 1100398
This does not mean that you could use the same crossover as the one on Parts Express for your project, and you don't know how that sounds anyway.
However, you could try using it as the basis and having a play with various parts values.
Please note that I know close to zero about speaker and crossover design, these are just ideas.
Geoff
Thank you very much Geoff, I will read all the links and I see you find the exact speaker of my post, I did not know from where it was.
This is what I'm looking for, now I need help for XO modification, the SEAS 27TFF H0831 is 6 ohms and my tweeter is 4 Ohms so I imagine it will chance the XO freq.
Any advice?
Attachments
My Xsim model using traced factory graphs and using the Vifa instead of the SEAS seems to change the XO point from about 2200 to just over 2000 Hz. That's still OK for the tweeter, I think.
I attach Xsim graphs comparing the Vifa and SEAS tweeters. The red line is the Vifa and is based on a trace from the published specs, so it may not be accurate. The SEAS is taken from FRD and ZMA files from Madisound but I don't know the basis for their data.
The XO for the LVS does not seem to deal with the cone break up of the Peerless, which you can see on the third graph (again, only a sim based on my traced graphs) at around 4,000 Hz. Whether you can hear that is of course another matter.
I used a small (0.33 microfarad) cap and 10 ohm resistor across the woofer inductor in my test build to deal with that issue. My build used the Vifa BC25TG15-04, obviously a 4 ohm unit but much cheaper and with different specs to your tweeter.
But this discussion is only based on my sims and the factory supplied data, plus my very limited expertise, so please seek other opinions. Hopefully others with more knowledge and expertise will respond to your questions
Good luck
Geoff
I attach Xsim graphs comparing the Vifa and SEAS tweeters. The red line is the Vifa and is based on a trace from the published specs, so it may not be accurate. The SEAS is taken from FRD and ZMA files from Madisound but I don't know the basis for their data.
The XO for the LVS does not seem to deal with the cone break up of the Peerless, which you can see on the third graph (again, only a sim based on my traced graphs) at around 4,000 Hz. Whether you can hear that is of course another matter.
I used a small (0.33 microfarad) cap and 10 ohm resistor across the woofer inductor in my test build to deal with that issue. My build used the Vifa BC25TG15-04, obviously a 4 ohm unit but much cheaper and with different specs to your tweeter.
But this discussion is only based on my sims and the factory supplied data, plus my very limited expertise, so please seek other opinions. Hopefully others with more knowledge and expertise will respond to your questions
Good luck
Geoff
Attachments
Last edited:
Hello Geoff, thank you for taking your time on this, I have the BC25 too, but I read it needs to be cross at 3k+ and the XT25 at 2k and because Peerless consider the SDS a subwoofer I though it will be better at 2k and I guess thats what your graph show, but I'am open to use either.
If I XO at 2k what do I need to change in the LBVS XO?
(sorry for my bad english, I try my best)
Gustavo.
Attachments
I've used the BC25 in three projects, all other peoples' designs: with the 830656; SB16PFC-8; and the Dayton DC160-8.
The DC160 was in the "Classix II", which was I think crossed at about 2200 Hz, the other projects, a bit higher I think. Paul Carmody used a 'fourth order' crossover to protect the tweeter, explained on his website. I've had my Classix for years and love the sound.
My test build with the BC25 and the SDS160 was OK but there was something not quite right about the sound; could have been the crossover point, more likely my lack of design skills and measuring equipment.
At least on paper, the XT can easily cope with 2,000Hz because it has a low 'resonant frequency' compared to the BC. If you have both drivers, I'd be inclined to use the XT as from all accounts the Peerless woofer seems happier to be crossed at 2,000 than much higher and I think the XT is a higher quality, more robust tweeter anyway. I've seen projects which crossed the SDS160 at 2500 and reportedly sounded fine; however, they're designed by people who know their stuff.
In Xsim, changing the woofer inductor to 1.8mH from 1.5, and the tweeter capacitor to 8.2 from 6.8 microfarads results in a 2,000 Hz crossover point on paper, but I've no idea what it would do to the sound.
Maybe Peerless considers the driver a sub woofer because of its Xmax, but I think it works fine as a mid-woofer.
As noted, you really need someone with more expertise and experience than I to advise you about this but I'm happy to help if I can
Geoff
The DC160 was in the "Classix II", which was I think crossed at about 2200 Hz, the other projects, a bit higher I think. Paul Carmody used a 'fourth order' crossover to protect the tweeter, explained on his website. I've had my Classix for years and love the sound.
My test build with the BC25 and the SDS160 was OK but there was something not quite right about the sound; could have been the crossover point, more likely my lack of design skills and measuring equipment.
At least on paper, the XT can easily cope with 2,000Hz because it has a low 'resonant frequency' compared to the BC. If you have both drivers, I'd be inclined to use the XT as from all accounts the Peerless woofer seems happier to be crossed at 2,000 than much higher and I think the XT is a higher quality, more robust tweeter anyway. I've seen projects which crossed the SDS160 at 2500 and reportedly sounded fine; however, they're designed by people who know their stuff.
In Xsim, changing the woofer inductor to 1.8mH from 1.5, and the tweeter capacitor to 8.2 from 6.8 microfarads results in a 2,000 Hz crossover point on paper, but I've no idea what it would do to the sound.
Maybe Peerless considers the driver a sub woofer because of its Xmax, but I think it works fine as a mid-woofer.
As noted, you really need someone with more expertise and experience than I to advise you about this but I'm happy to help if I can
Geoff
Good morning Geoff, in fact I was thinking to build the Classix II with my BC25 Tweeters, I read very good things about them.
Just for curiosity, between this drivers 830656; SB16PFC-8; and the Dayton DC160-8 which one is your favorite ?
About the XO I guess is my lucky day, I have a pair of 8.2mF Clarity Caps I did not use on my Caritas speakers so it will be cheaper for me.
I don't know somebody with more expertise, so I guess I'm done, I will build it using your recommendations and blame no one if it's not perfect and just have fun and enjoy the music thru them, drivers where very cheap so I don't expect much.
I appreciate your help and effort.
Thank you very much!
Gustavo.
Just for curiosity, between this drivers 830656; SB16PFC-8; and the Dayton DC160-8 which one is your favorite ?
About the XO I guess is my lucky day, I have a pair of 8.2mF Clarity Caps I did not use on my Caritas speakers so it will be cheaper for me.
I don't know somebody with more expertise, so I guess I'm done, I will build it using your recommendations and blame no one if it's not perfect and just have fun and enjoy the music thru them, drivers where very cheap so I don't expect much.
I appreciate your help and effort.
Thank you very much!
Gustavo.
Attachments
Last edited:
Do you have any simulation software, such as Xsim? I'm surprised someone else hasn't commented on this project and crossover apart from GM. You could draw up your proposed XO and post it for members' comments.
If no-one else has any suggestions or if you can't find any reviews, you could buy and wire up the parts to test, but buy another few resistors - which are cheap even in Oz - to play with the tweeter output. Don't solder anything until you're happy with the sound.
The cabinet is relatively large and costly to build, so I would get some cheap scraps and make up a test box first; I do that all the time as I can get free MDF and scrap ply from a nearby timber workshop.
The various drivers I've used - all in other peoples' projects - each have pros and cons: the Peerless 830657/SDS160 sounds very nice, has good bass but needs a large cabinet to give its best. It has the most 'Xmax' (cone excursion) of those drivers, plus you don't need to router out the mounting, you just need to cut a hole and screw it on, which is a real plus. Looks cool, too.
The SB (used in Michael Chua's 'Lark SM') also sounds really nice, but has a weird frame shape which is a pain to flush mount. Has a slightly more detailed and cleaner sound than the DC160.
The DC160 has great bass and sounds very good in Paul's Classix but it lacks a little detail compared to the SB and won't play quite as loud - although the Classix 2.5 deals with that issue, would love to build them. If you had the Daytons already I'd suggest building the 2.5s as you know they will sound great.
It's worth emphasising that these drivers all sound good because the designers really know their stuff: any or all of them could sound poor in the wrong cabinet or with the wrong crossover.
Geoff
If no-one else has any suggestions or if you can't find any reviews, you could buy and wire up the parts to test, but buy another few resistors - which are cheap even in Oz - to play with the tweeter output. Don't solder anything until you're happy with the sound.
The cabinet is relatively large and costly to build, so I would get some cheap scraps and make up a test box first; I do that all the time as I can get free MDF and scrap ply from a nearby timber workshop.
The various drivers I've used - all in other peoples' projects - each have pros and cons: the Peerless 830657/SDS160 sounds very nice, has good bass but needs a large cabinet to give its best. It has the most 'Xmax' (cone excursion) of those drivers, plus you don't need to router out the mounting, you just need to cut a hole and screw it on, which is a real plus. Looks cool, too.
The SB (used in Michael Chua's 'Lark SM') also sounds really nice, but has a weird frame shape which is a pain to flush mount. Has a slightly more detailed and cleaner sound than the DC160.
The DC160 has great bass and sounds very good in Paul's Classix but it lacks a little detail compared to the SB and won't play quite as loud - although the Classix 2.5 deals with that issue, would love to build them. If you had the Daytons already I'd suggest building the 2.5s as you know they will sound great.
It's worth emphasising that these drivers all sound good because the designers really know their stuff: any or all of them could sound poor in the wrong cabinet or with the wrong crossover.
Geoff
No, I don't,
With your help and GM is more than enough, I received more than expected.
Thanks for the advice, I will do that.
My original plan was buying a kit from GR Research but I saw the Peerless good price and decided to give them a chance.
Maybe my next proyect will be a kit with SBA drivers or Classix 2.5, I see several speakers with Peerless drivers from Ampslab.
thanks for your comments and help, I really apreciated.
Gustavo,
Attachments
Maybe combine ( adjust etc. )
XT25 tweeter from
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...-overall-best-sounding-speaker-design-details
woofer from
edos LBVS
XT25 tweeter from
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...-overall-best-sounding-speaker-design-details
woofer from
edos LBVS
Hello ChrisABC
This one looks cool, I find the GBS-85N25PR03-04 in Digikey $22.59 usd, I have the TC9 and gives excellen midrange unbeateble by a 6.5" so with 3 vias I imagine will sound terrific.
I guess I can use my XT25BG60-04 Tweeter and adjust the level resistor sensitivity XT25SC90-04 86.8 vs 88.6 XT25BG60-04. everything else are almost the same.
Thank you!
This MTM looks cool too, better high midrange from a 51/4 woofer and less money for the XO I just don't know if having 2 woofers sharing the same frequency its good for image and stage, but they win, they must be very good.
MTMs can have the woofers in the same cabinet, sharing the same space and all those I've seen do; they're doing the same job and dealing with the same bits of sound and air; that's my rather basic understanding, anyway. I've built two, one of which came a very close second in that Iron Driver competition.
The German 3-way project looks very interesting, although it has (to me) a very complicated filter on the tweeter. Someone who knows much more than I do would need to explain it! Your tweeter looks easier to work with.
Geoff
The German 3-way project looks very interesting, although it has (to me) a very complicated filter on the tweeter. Someone who knows much more than I do would need to explain it! Your tweeter looks easier to work with.
Geoff