Hey all
I was reading a few of these other posts on the Heils and didn't want to hijack someone elses post, so I thought I would start my own.
I have a pair of Heils that I got out of a pair of ESS Tempest Classic Speakers that I picked up that were missing both the 10" woofers and passives out of them. They look quite a bit moe refined than the ones that you see (AMT 1's?) most commonly on the Bay for sale. I have ony seen one other set like mine separately for sale before but I was not sure they came from the same model as mine.
Does anyone know the diffs in the heils over the ages? How about which ones were the best sounding/most sought after. I am on the fence about deciding whether or not to try and find the woofs and passives to restore the speaker, or use the tweet in my own creation. The cabinets are not too bad overall and could be fairly good with a bit of TLC. The grills are in need of some glue to fix them into place with the covering. No real tips or tears, just coming apart at their seams, which I think is doable.
Crossovers are still in tack and functional. If I were to use the tweet in a separate application should I use the these original ones as is and connect (insert driver(s) of choice here) to the original driver leads as the main crossover in a DIY project or make a completely different one?
Speaking of which does anyone happen to know the woofer impedances of the original woofs?
Another choice that I was thinking was to scrap the passive and either seal/port the hole around a completely different woofer, or make it a dual woofer design matching the overall impedance that matches the original woofer. Any thoughts?
Thanks all. I really am thinking really hard to figure out that the heck I shoud do with these things and has been bugging me for a while. Any and all thoughts/comments are appreciated!!
Chris
I was reading a few of these other posts on the Heils and didn't want to hijack someone elses post, so I thought I would start my own.
I have a pair of Heils that I got out of a pair of ESS Tempest Classic Speakers that I picked up that were missing both the 10" woofers and passives out of them. They look quite a bit moe refined than the ones that you see (AMT 1's?) most commonly on the Bay for sale. I have ony seen one other set like mine separately for sale before but I was not sure they came from the same model as mine.
Does anyone know the diffs in the heils over the ages? How about which ones were the best sounding/most sought after. I am on the fence about deciding whether or not to try and find the woofs and passives to restore the speaker, or use the tweet in my own creation. The cabinets are not too bad overall and could be fairly good with a bit of TLC. The grills are in need of some glue to fix them into place with the covering. No real tips or tears, just coming apart at their seams, which I think is doable.
Crossovers are still in tack and functional. If I were to use the tweet in a separate application should I use the these original ones as is and connect (insert driver(s) of choice here) to the original driver leads as the main crossover in a DIY project or make a completely different one?
Speaking of which does anyone happen to know the woofer impedances of the original woofs?
Another choice that I was thinking was to scrap the passive and either seal/port the hole around a completely different woofer, or make it a dual woofer design matching the overall impedance that matches the original woofer. Any thoughts?
Thanks all. I really am thinking really hard to figure out that the heck I shoud do with these things and has been bugging me for a while. Any and all thoughts/comments are appreciated!!
Chris
Hello,
It seems I am the unofficial AMT historian around here, so I'll see if I can help. If memory serves, the Tempest Classic looked just like the AMT1, but with a different tweeter. It used what they called the Concept tweeter, which was typically baffle mounted but had a mounting foot welded on so it could be mounted on top of the cabinet in this installation. The AMT1 or Great Heil was always their top of the line tweeter, but I have a pair of these as well and they sound amost exactly the same. Technically, the element on the Concept tweeter was a little shorter and wider than the AMT1 element (4 11/16" x 1 3/4" vs. 5 9/16" x 1 9/16") and the Concept used 1 pair of magnets where the AMT1 used 2 pair. Technically, the AMT1 should have a lower FS, a higher efficiency and roll off on the top end a little more than the Concept. Although I've never measured my Concept tweets, they really sound pretty much the same as the AMT1s. I do have a AMT1B vintage set of tweeters, and a new set I bought from ESS last year; they measure (and sound) almost exactly the same.
What I have done with mine, is put them on top of a low Q sealed box with a couple of RS225s with a steep filter at ~1300. They sound very nice that way. Right now I'm fiddling with a couple of other options, one is using a pair of higher efficency 8s from B&C, the other is a full dipole, but that is taking a while. In any event, my best suggestion is to lose the old tech woofers, box and xover; find some 7-8" drivers you like and cross them around 1500 to your tweeters. You will be glad you did.
John
It seems I am the unofficial AMT historian around here, so I'll see if I can help. If memory serves, the Tempest Classic looked just like the AMT1, but with a different tweeter. It used what they called the Concept tweeter, which was typically baffle mounted but had a mounting foot welded on so it could be mounted on top of the cabinet in this installation. The AMT1 or Great Heil was always their top of the line tweeter, but I have a pair of these as well and they sound amost exactly the same. Technically, the element on the Concept tweeter was a little shorter and wider than the AMT1 element (4 11/16" x 1 3/4" vs. 5 9/16" x 1 9/16") and the Concept used 1 pair of magnets where the AMT1 used 2 pair. Technically, the AMT1 should have a lower FS, a higher efficiency and roll off on the top end a little more than the Concept. Although I've never measured my Concept tweets, they really sound pretty much the same as the AMT1s. I do have a AMT1B vintage set of tweeters, and a new set I bought from ESS last year; they measure (and sound) almost exactly the same.
What I have done with mine, is put them on top of a low Q sealed box with a couple of RS225s with a steep filter at ~1300. They sound very nice that way. Right now I'm fiddling with a couple of other options, one is using a pair of higher efficency 8s from B&C, the other is a full dipole, but that is taking a while. In any event, my best suggestion is to lose the old tech woofers, box and xover; find some 7-8" drivers you like and cross them around 1500 to your tweeters. You will be glad you did.
John
I have just been reading about the Heils Interesting article here:
http://home.comcast.net/~neilandbarbaradavis/DIYHeil/ART.pdf
http://home.comcast.net/~neilandbarbaradavis/DIYHeil/ART.pdf
I'm sure they sound wonderful, but that has to be one of the ugliest speakers I have ever seen! 🙂
Oh no Al, you haven't seen ugly yet. The one's I'm listening to right now are on the right. Big and ugly are the only way to describe them. For a sense of scale, they are 40" tall and 30" wide, like dressers on either side of my TV. And you know, they sound good enough to make up for how they look. 24" woofers are cool.
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Hey John,
Sorry it took me so long to reply, been really busy lately.
Yep, Them's the beasts. I really like the sound of these tweets. Super fast and very open. Definitely different then anything I have heard before. I am not sure yet how I wanted to impement them into a speaker design yet, but I have a few ideas that are coming to mind. I guess that due to the fact that these tweets seem to radiate sound from behind also, they are best placed on top of a box for best results and greater dispersion.
I always wanted to have a pair of these tweeters for my collection. I get a phonecall one day by my girlfriend one day from Value Village (giant thrift store chain) and she says "Hey there are a pair of speakers here that looks like something that you would drag home. They have a funny looking tweeter that I thought that you might be interested in, but it doesn't have any woofers in it."
I asked her what kind they were and she said that they didn't say on them. I told her to look closer. Then she spotted a little name badge in the corner of one of the grilles "Oh wait, here it says "E-S-S Tempest Classic - Heil Air Motion Tra..."
"It's got the Heils?!" I interupted. "The Heil Air Motion Transformers! That's those funny looking tweeters that you are looking at. Get em! Do not let your eyes off them."
"Oh great. Another big old ugly pair of speakers as if you don't already have enough sitting around. I don't know even why I called you. I knew you were going to want them. Why was I even looking at speakers anyways? I guess that your speaker obsession starting to rub off on me now. Just great..." She said as I could literally hear her eyes rolling back into her head. "You're pick'in 'em up though!"
With that being said I was already half way there and for $17.99 plus tax I (well, she actually paid for them) was the proud owner of a pair of woofer challenged ESS Tempest Classics. She still insists that they are HER Heils and says she's taking them if we ever split.
I just thought I would share that story because it made me think of it when Pinkmouse referred to them as ugly.
One other thing, coincidently we got them the same night as we were going to a Hallowe'en party at a friend's house. I didn't really have a costume to wear and wasn't planning to dress up. When we got there and half way up the driveway I ran back to the car and grabbed the grille assembly off one of the speakers. It was a bit of a snug fit and a bit awkward to walk around in, but you should have seen the looks on the faces of the people when an ESS Tempest Classic Heil Air Motion Transformer speaker came walking in...
True story. It was just this past hallowe'en that it happened. Those speakers will always remind me of that halloween party and my girlfriend. Who knows, they may eventually be responsible for the two of us getting married. When you find true love like that, you would want to hang onto it forever. Even if it means keeping her around too. 😉
Chris
PS: I really don't think they are THAT ugly... I dunno, I think they are actually kinda cool...
Sorry it took me so long to reply, been really busy lately.
Yep, Them's the beasts. I really like the sound of these tweets. Super fast and very open. Definitely different then anything I have heard before. I am not sure yet how I wanted to impement them into a speaker design yet, but I have a few ideas that are coming to mind. I guess that due to the fact that these tweets seem to radiate sound from behind also, they are best placed on top of a box for best results and greater dispersion.
I always wanted to have a pair of these tweeters for my collection. I get a phonecall one day by my girlfriend one day from Value Village (giant thrift store chain) and she says "Hey there are a pair of speakers here that looks like something that you would drag home. They have a funny looking tweeter that I thought that you might be interested in, but it doesn't have any woofers in it."
I asked her what kind they were and she said that they didn't say on them. I told her to look closer. Then she spotted a little name badge in the corner of one of the grilles "Oh wait, here it says "E-S-S Tempest Classic - Heil Air Motion Tra..."
"It's got the Heils?!" I interupted. "The Heil Air Motion Transformers! That's those funny looking tweeters that you are looking at. Get em! Do not let your eyes off them."
"Oh great. Another big old ugly pair of speakers as if you don't already have enough sitting around. I don't know even why I called you. I knew you were going to want them. Why was I even looking at speakers anyways? I guess that your speaker obsession starting to rub off on me now. Just great..." She said as I could literally hear her eyes rolling back into her head. "You're pick'in 'em up though!"
With that being said I was already half way there and for $17.99 plus tax I (well, she actually paid for them) was the proud owner of a pair of woofer challenged ESS Tempest Classics. She still insists that they are HER Heils and says she's taking them if we ever split.
I just thought I would share that story because it made me think of it when Pinkmouse referred to them as ugly.
One other thing, coincidently we got them the same night as we were going to a Hallowe'en party at a friend's house. I didn't really have a costume to wear and wasn't planning to dress up. When we got there and half way up the driveway I ran back to the car and grabbed the grille assembly off one of the speakers. It was a bit of a snug fit and a bit awkward to walk around in, but you should have seen the looks on the faces of the people when an ESS Tempest Classic Heil Air Motion Transformer speaker came walking in...
True story. It was just this past hallowe'en that it happened. Those speakers will always remind me of that halloween party and my girlfriend. Who knows, they may eventually be responsible for the two of us getting married. When you find true love like that, you would want to hang onto it forever. Even if it means keeping her around too. 😉
Chris
PS: I really don't think they are THAT ugly... I dunno, I think they are actually kinda cool...
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