Hi all,
HDTV is coming to the UK.
Can an HD ready TV only display HD signals by using an HDMI connector?
The salesperson also said that there are DVD recorders that can record and display HD signals.
How do I recognise an HD ready recorder?
Can an older TV that accepts RGB, Svideo, commponent video as well as composite video be used to display high definition signals?
HDTV is coming to the UK.
Can an HD ready TV only display HD signals by using an HDMI connector?
The salesperson also said that there are DVD recorders that can record and display HD signals.
How do I recognise an HD ready recorder?
Can an older TV that accepts RGB, Svideo, commponent video as well as composite video be used to display high definition signals?
AndrewT said:
"HD ready" generally means no digital tuner on board. But can be used as a HD monitor given the matching resolution and scan via digital inputs like DVI or HDMI.
Better to have a built in tuner for free over the air broadcasts. Generally cable and sat providers are using their own standards. So will have to get a tuner from their suppliers anyway.
T
check resolutions offered for recording and playback.
No not correctly
HD Ready!
Hi Andrew,
It is my understanding that all proposed HD Displays will use the HDMI connector for displaying HD signals.
An 'older' TV cannot, by definition (no pun intended), display an HD signal without prior down conversion to a normal definition signal. Obviously the down converter could supply the normal definition picture by any of the usual analogue connection systems - composite, S video, RGB, YUV component, etc.
The most obvious question is ... what are you going to record? To my knowledge the only source of HD material available to the domestic viewer is via various test transmissions on exotic satellite channels, and the proposed Sky HD service. Sky's own Sky+ HD box will obviously record and playback HD material (as well as SD, standard definition material).
The BBC plans to transmit an HD service on Freeview, I gather. Domestic HD recorders, either DVD or hard disc based, will, presumeably, interface to future HD Freeview boxes.
The other main source of HD material for the domestic viewer will clearly be some form of HD DVD system. There is obviously a hold up on the roll out of a domestic HD capable disc system due to the lack of ratification for the competing proposed systems - HD Dvd and BlueRay. (Everybody remembers the VHS vs Betamax thing, right?)
It's interesting to note that the vast majority of 'HD Ready' screens available to buy right now at your local Comet. Dixons, etc. are far from HD capable. Just because a screen is 'capable' of displaying a down converted HD signal doesn't mean you are going to be overwhelmed by the true HD experience.
Most 'HD Ready' screens (primarily Plasma & LCD panels) are simply re-packaged Wide XGA panels operating at a resolution of 1366 x 768 pixels. The current HD specification for future transmissions is based on a pixel resolution of 1920x1080, in various flavours of progressive (1080p) and interlaced (1080i).
The difference in quality when viewing a 1920 x 1080 picture on a native pixel screen (as opposed to a Wide XGA) is, simply, staggering. 😱
Manufacturers are slowly responding to this demand - check out these:
The Toshiba 47WLT66 lcd screen:
http://www.home-entertainment.toshi...es/lcdplasma-lcdfreeview-47wlt66?opendocument
The Toshiba 42WLT66 lcd screen:
http://www.home-entertainment.toshi...es/lcdplasma-lcdfreeview-42wlt66?opendocument
No commercial endorsement implied - there are just very few yet available.
My feeling is that there are going to be quite a number of 'HD Ready' purchasers that are going to be very disappointed/angry in the near future. 😡
Regards,
Ian
Hi Andrew,
It is my understanding that all proposed HD Displays will use the HDMI connector for displaying HD signals.
An 'older' TV cannot, by definition (no pun intended), display an HD signal without prior down conversion to a normal definition signal. Obviously the down converter could supply the normal definition picture by any of the usual analogue connection systems - composite, S video, RGB, YUV component, etc.
The most obvious question is ... what are you going to record? To my knowledge the only source of HD material available to the domestic viewer is via various test transmissions on exotic satellite channels, and the proposed Sky HD service. Sky's own Sky+ HD box will obviously record and playback HD material (as well as SD, standard definition material).
The BBC plans to transmit an HD service on Freeview, I gather. Domestic HD recorders, either DVD or hard disc based, will, presumeably, interface to future HD Freeview boxes.
The other main source of HD material for the domestic viewer will clearly be some form of HD DVD system. There is obviously a hold up on the roll out of a domestic HD capable disc system due to the lack of ratification for the competing proposed systems - HD Dvd and BlueRay. (Everybody remembers the VHS vs Betamax thing, right?)
It's interesting to note that the vast majority of 'HD Ready' screens available to buy right now at your local Comet. Dixons, etc. are far from HD capable. Just because a screen is 'capable' of displaying a down converted HD signal doesn't mean you are going to be overwhelmed by the true HD experience.
Most 'HD Ready' screens (primarily Plasma & LCD panels) are simply re-packaged Wide XGA panels operating at a resolution of 1366 x 768 pixels. The current HD specification for future transmissions is based on a pixel resolution of 1920x1080, in various flavours of progressive (1080p) and interlaced (1080i).
The difference in quality when viewing a 1920 x 1080 picture on a native pixel screen (as opposed to a Wide XGA) is, simply, staggering. 😱
Manufacturers are slowly responding to this demand - check out these:
The Toshiba 47WLT66 lcd screen:
http://www.home-entertainment.toshi...es/lcdplasma-lcdfreeview-47wlt66?opendocument
The Toshiba 42WLT66 lcd screen:
http://www.home-entertainment.toshi...es/lcdplasma-lcdfreeview-42wlt66?opendocument
No commercial endorsement implied - there are just very few yet available.
My feeling is that there are going to be quite a number of 'HD Ready' purchasers that are going to be very disappointed/angry in the near future. 😡
Regards,
Ian
Re: HD Ready!
Very nice post Ian!
Right on the button Ian. Best advice for most people is to hold out for a another year or so for a true 1080p HD display screen of 1920x1080. This is about double the pixel density of most of the screens they pushing now.
Very nice post Ian!
D!g!TaL said:
Right on the button Ian. Best advice for most people is to hold out for a another year or so for a true 1080p HD display screen of 1920x1080. This is about double the pixel density of most of the screens they pushing now.
Hi,
thanks.
Sounds like some of the info from sales is incorrect.
If the DVD recorder system cannot cope with HD signals, then can the SKY HD box which has a hard disc recording facility built in cope with storing the full resolution?
or is SKY HD storing at a lower resolution more suited to the kid on "HD ready" TVs that do not display at 1080lines?
From what you are saying I may well be asking these questions again in 12/24months. Why, because sales are not going to be honest when a buyer asks what he/she is getting from them.
thanks.
Sounds like some of the info from sales is incorrect.
If the DVD recorder system cannot cope with HD signals, then can the SKY HD box which has a hard disc recording facility built in cope with storing the full resolution?
or is SKY HD storing at a lower resolution more suited to the kid on "HD ready" TVs that do not display at 1080lines?
From what you are saying I may well be asking these questions again in 12/24months. Why, because sales are not going to be honest when a buyer asks what he/she is getting from them.
It's still all in it's infancy, but the current state of affairs is:
Connection to the screen is via either HDMI or component connections, the new Sky+HD has both. Suitable sets have an 'HD Ready' logo which ensures compatibility, 'HD Resolution' doesn't guarantee it.
Sky are currently broadcasting HD programming ready for the launch of Sky HD in May - boxes aren't available yet, but will be a new Sky+HD, with 160Gb recording space.
The BBC will be doing tests via satellite (Astra 28.2), probably during the world cup, and the Sky+HD boxes will be able to receive these as well. FTA HD boxes should be able to receive the BBC tests as well.
The Sky+HD boxes will record the direct digital data stream, as current Sky+'s do, so the quality will be exactly the same as off-air.
Freeview! - the BBC are doing tests this summer in London only, for a VERY! small number of viewers (a few hundred or so). As for an actual service?, at the present time it's a huge problem as the bandwidth isn't available terrestrially. Personally I see no real reasoning behind terrestrial digital at all?, far better coverage and much more bandwidth via satellite.
As for recorders?, the whole point of the HDMI interface is to prevent you recording the signals - the copyright holders don't like the idea of people making HD copies of their programming.
Connection to the screen is via either HDMI or component connections, the new Sky+HD has both. Suitable sets have an 'HD Ready' logo which ensures compatibility, 'HD Resolution' doesn't guarantee it.
Sky are currently broadcasting HD programming ready for the launch of Sky HD in May - boxes aren't available yet, but will be a new Sky+HD, with 160Gb recording space.
The BBC will be doing tests via satellite (Astra 28.2), probably during the world cup, and the Sky+HD boxes will be able to receive these as well. FTA HD boxes should be able to receive the BBC tests as well.
The Sky+HD boxes will record the direct digital data stream, as current Sky+'s do, so the quality will be exactly the same as off-air.
Freeview! - the BBC are doing tests this summer in London only, for a VERY! small number of viewers (a few hundred or so). As for an actual service?, at the present time it's a huge problem as the bandwidth isn't available terrestrially. Personally I see no real reasoning behind terrestrial digital at all?, far better coverage and much more bandwidth via satellite.
As for recorders?, the whole point of the HDMI interface is to prevent you recording the signals - the copyright holders don't like the idea of people making HD copies of their programming.
Hi Nigel,
Digital is my only alternative unless I wish to keep that Austrailian in Rolls Royces and private jets.
HD reception from SKY looks like costing £700 to £800 per annum in reception fees plus the cost of sky box (£300) plus the HD tv.
I can control the HD tv and budget for it.
Sky's greed is beyond my control.
Terrestial digital is my only cheap option.
My analogue transmitter is due to go off air next year (Selkirk).
Digital is my only alternative unless I wish to keep that Austrailian in Rolls Royces and private jets.
HD reception from SKY looks like costing £700 to £800 per annum in reception fees plus the cost of sky box (£300) plus the HD tv.
I can control the HD tv and budget for it.
Sky's greed is beyond my control.
Terrestial digital is my only cheap option.
Hello Andrew,
Just get yourself a Freeview STB for now if you dont allready have one, freeview is actually quite good.
I dont have Sky TV and never will, its a rip off.
If you want HD then you will have to wait for Freeview to go HD ( you will be waiting a long time) or get yourself a satellite TV box (note not Sky) which will get u a lot of channels for free.
For more information have a look at this forum http://www.satellites.co.uk/
IF you are quick with a purchase of a HD sat box you will be able to watch the world cup in HD.
Kram
Just get yourself a Freeview STB for now if you dont allready have one, freeview is actually quite good.
I dont have Sky TV and never will, its a rip off.
If you want HD then you will have to wait for Freeview to go HD ( you will be waiting a long time) or get yourself a satellite TV box (note not Sky) which will get u a lot of channels for free.
For more information have a look at this forum http://www.satellites.co.uk/
IF you are quick with a purchase of a HD sat box you will be able to watch the world cup in HD.
Kram
AndrewT said:
That appears to be a common misconception, Freesat gives almost the same channels as Freeview and doesn't require a subscription at all. It provides quite a lot of channels that Freeview doesn't, and Freeview provides a smaller number that Freesat doesn't.
You DO require a Sky Digibox and a Freesat card (£20 one of fee) to get Ch4 and Ch5 as these are currently encrypted, or an expired Sky card works as a freesat card as well. Apart from those any FTA digital satellite box will do - but a Sky Digibox is the easiest choice.
You can also order it directly from Sky, where it costs £150, including the box, card, and installation - which is certainly losing BSkyB money (which you might enjoy?). Another option is to subscribe to Sky, so you get the free box, card and installation, with a minimum monthly subscription - this is less than £150, and after a year you cancel, and keep all the equipment (this will lose BSkyB even more money!).
TV smashing 🙂
Hi,
What are you going to watch in HDtv in the UK?
In my opinion there isn't much on tv worth watching (except for sport).
Thanks ITV for killing UK tv !
Though I read that the World cup is to be broadcast in HDtv. My thinking is that HDtv is the last gasp for the television. I'd love the bbc to start podcasting tv programmes as I really enjoy the radio shows. Allows me to bypass the crud.
Well the UK government expect tv's to be around for another 10 years!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_03_06bbc_whitepaper.pdf
Hang on what do I do with my tv when we switch over....
Hi,
What are you going to watch in HDtv in the UK?
In my opinion there isn't much on tv worth watching (except for sport).
Thanks ITV for killing UK tv !
Though I read that the World cup is to be broadcast in HDtv. My thinking is that HDtv is the last gasp for the television. I'd love the bbc to start podcasting tv programmes as I really enjoy the radio shows. Allows me to bypass the crud.
Well the UK government expect tv's to be around for another 10 years!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_03_06bbc_whitepaper.pdf
Hang on what do I do with my tv when we switch over....
Re: TV smashing 🙂
When analogue ends you either buy a new TV, or a set top box to convert your old TV, not to mention you have to do this for EVERY TV and VCR in your house!.
ash_dac said:
Hang on what do I do with my tv when we switch over....
When analogue ends you either buy a new TV, or a set top box to convert your old TV, not to mention you have to do this for EVERY TV and VCR in your house!.
Re: TV smashing 🙂
Do what everyone else does. Dump it by a railway line.
ash_dac said:Hang on what do I do with my tv when we switch over....
Do what everyone else does. Dump it by a railway line.
dnsey said:I live on the edge of a wood, and there's no line of sight for satellite reception
Put the serail on a tree top!
Hi,
I have been watching Freeview using stb for a couple of years now.
I hate digital, but they switched off the analogue transmission.
Last year I bought a couple of newer stb, picture quality and sound quality were no better. Speed of operation is much better.
A good digital picture is OK on a CRT. Digital artefacts, dropouts, freezing, pixelating, two half pictures and blank screen are the same problem as before.
My sight has deteriorated but when a slow pan across human face has different parts of the face holding steady and other parts moving then it all catches up in the next frame and some other visual feature accelerates or decelerates changing the face shape.
My brain tells me this is not what we should be seeing.
Up to date.
I have bought two HD stb and one HD HDD recorder.
Speed of operation is still good.
All the digital artefacts are still there, although maybe not quite so often. When the weather does not suit signal, the picture is almost unwatchable and the sound drops out or "chirps" loudly as it stops. Unfortunately, I have had to return 3 of the 4 HD receivers due to faults.
Now the better news.
HD programming definitely shows as better quality picture on old widescreen CRTs. 28" and 36" show a clearer more detailed picture when displaying the HD program.
I don't know how these CRT versions of HD picture compares to a "real HD TV" But I am pleased with picture quality.
What can be done about the digital artefacts. Last night when it was raining and fairly windy, the film I was watching became so bad I gave up and went to bed.
I have been watching Freeview using stb for a couple of years now.
I hate digital, but they switched off the analogue transmission.
Last year I bought a couple of newer stb, picture quality and sound quality were no better. Speed of operation is much better.
A good digital picture is OK on a CRT. Digital artefacts, dropouts, freezing, pixelating, two half pictures and blank screen are the same problem as before.
My sight has deteriorated but when a slow pan across human face has different parts of the face holding steady and other parts moving then it all catches up in the next frame and some other visual feature accelerates or decelerates changing the face shape.
My brain tells me this is not what we should be seeing.
Up to date.
I have bought two HD stb and one HD HDD recorder.
Speed of operation is still good.
All the digital artefacts are still there, although maybe not quite so often. When the weather does not suit signal, the picture is almost unwatchable and the sound drops out or "chirps" loudly as it stops. Unfortunately, I have had to return 3 of the 4 HD receivers due to faults.
Now the better news.
HD programming definitely shows as better quality picture on old widescreen CRTs. 28" and 36" show a clearer more detailed picture when displaying the HD program.
I don't know how these CRT versions of HD picture compares to a "real HD TV" But I am pleased with picture quality.
What can be done about the digital artefacts. Last night when it was raining and fairly windy, the film I was watching became so bad I gave up and went to bed.
Sounds like you need a better aerial, try a log periodic - specifically the Log40 in the link below - which is more resistant to interference. I recommend getting their recommended cable and rewiring too.
Online TV FM DAB Aerial sales
Online TV FM DAB Aerial sales
I have bought from that shop before and the information on the site is really good.
Have a look on ebay for belden double screened coaxial cable. I bought a role of 250m that was cheaper than most places sell the 100m roles for.
Also have a look at mast head amplifiers, I can only get a good signal on 2 properties using a mast head amp, oh and make sure its a variable gain one as well, too much boost can be worse than none at all.
Good luck.
Have a look on ebay for belden double screened coaxial cable. I bought a role of 250m that was cheaper than most places sell the 100m roles for.
Also have a look at mast head amplifiers, I can only get a good signal on 2 properties using a mast head amp, oh and make sure its a variable gain one as well, too much boost can be worse than none at all.
Good luck.
The aerial installation was specifically put in to suit the Digital change over.
The mast head amp is very close to the aerial. the al foil and copper screen is a low loss type well suite to ch68 and beyond. The 1in 4out distribution box that also powers the amp must give some loss of signal level.
The stb reports good quality and good levels.
I don't think it is the receiving end giving the digital artifacts.
I think it is the transmission system chosen that is the cause of the problem.
I further think that the improved picture quality that comes with the HD programming shows that the standard DVB signal could not and does not match that available through analogue. Analogue was a more robust transmission system that simply degraded picture quality rather than freeze and no picture.
I also wonder why the ultra low population density areas were switched over upto 4 years ahead of the densely populated conurbations.
I'll suggest it was to reduce complaint levels giving the authorities 4extra years to try to design out the problems.
The mast head amp is very close to the aerial. the al foil and copper screen is a low loss type well suite to ch68 and beyond. The 1in 4out distribution box that also powers the amp must give some loss of signal level.
The stb reports good quality and good levels.
I don't think it is the receiving end giving the digital artifacts.
I think it is the transmission system chosen that is the cause of the problem.
I further think that the improved picture quality that comes with the HD programming shows that the standard DVB signal could not and does not match that available through analogue. Analogue was a more robust transmission system that simply degraded picture quality rather than freeze and no picture.
I also wonder why the ultra low population density areas were switched over upto 4 years ahead of the densely populated conurbations.
I'll suggest it was to reduce complaint levels giving the authorities 4extra years to try to design out the problems.
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