Hi there 😎
It all comes down to Super Audio CD handling / playback using a Sony Bluray player: UBP-X800 and an external DAC:
In my case Topping D90SE which has a HDMI / I2S, which is pin configurable as you can see here:
I intend to buy a 'HDMI to I2S box' and place it between my Sony UBP-X800 / HDMI 2 (audio only) and the DAC, connecting with two 1.4 HDMI cables.
I need to know the HDMI pin config for the Sony UBP-X800 in order to replicate the pin setting to the DAC / HDMI / I2S.
Does anyone know where I can get that information ? (Sony customer service: don't give a camel s... !!)
I am thinking a repair manual: Sony UBP-X800, for technicians, but it might not even be there !
Next question; Which box to buy ? I'm not going for the reputable boxes around 1000-1500 us $...like GEERFAB AUDIO D.BOB and the likes !
Even this one at 79€ (plus shipment) is overpriced : https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...-hdmi-mhl-to-i2s-coaxial-optical-p-13419.html
This one is more in my price range but a box with less jitter will be nice: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-blackbird-review-hdmi-audio-extractor.36478/
I appeciate any box recommandation you have testet with SACD yourself or know about first hand around 30-80 us $
Thanks...all the way 🙂
It all comes down to Super Audio CD handling / playback using a Sony Bluray player: UBP-X800 and an external DAC:
In my case Topping D90SE which has a HDMI / I2S, which is pin configurable as you can see here:
I intend to buy a 'HDMI to I2S box' and place it between my Sony UBP-X800 / HDMI 2 (audio only) and the DAC, connecting with two 1.4 HDMI cables.
I need to know the HDMI pin config for the Sony UBP-X800 in order to replicate the pin setting to the DAC / HDMI / I2S.
Does anyone know where I can get that information ? (Sony customer service: don't give a camel s... !!)
I am thinking a repair manual: Sony UBP-X800, for technicians, but it might not even be there !
Next question; Which box to buy ? I'm not going for the reputable boxes around 1000-1500 us $...like GEERFAB AUDIO D.BOB and the likes !
Even this one at 79€ (plus shipment) is overpriced : https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...-hdmi-mhl-to-i2s-coaxial-optical-p-13419.html
This one is more in my price range but a box with less jitter will be nice: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-blackbird-review-hdmi-audio-extractor.36478/
I appeciate any box recommandation you have testet with SACD yourself or know about first hand around 30-80 us $
Thanks...all the way 🙂
Some info on HDMI pinouts at:
https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/audio-video/hdmi/hdmi-pinouts-connections.php
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h5PMUBkldkpt1rCnAR4ZHYGZNeCe-vwIFyKWYMZWsX0/htmlview#
However, if you want SACD from HDMI for cheap, its rather unlikely to happen. IIRC most of the cheap HDMI converters output 48kHz PCM only, even if people don't realize it. If the original source was SACD it gets converted to 48kHz PCM inside the source device, then is sent to the 'converter' box.
Aside from that, SACDs contain DSD data. DSD is more sensitive to jitter than is PCM so good clocks matter. Moreover, SACD is typically DSD64. IIRC there are also some at DSD128. The thing with DSD is that it doesn't start sounding really good until up around DSD256 and above (DSD256 is a sweet spot for some dacs). IME a well-recorded CD converted to DSD256 and played back with low jitter clocking typically sounds better than SACD at DSD64 or DSD128. Other people may disagree on that of course, just my personal opinion.
https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/audio-video/hdmi/hdmi-pinouts-connections.php
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h5PMUBkldkpt1rCnAR4ZHYGZNeCe-vwIFyKWYMZWsX0/htmlview#
However, if you want SACD from HDMI for cheap, its rather unlikely to happen. IIRC most of the cheap HDMI converters output 48kHz PCM only, even if people don't realize it. If the original source was SACD it gets converted to 48kHz PCM inside the source device, then is sent to the 'converter' box.
Aside from that, SACDs contain DSD data. DSD is more sensitive to jitter than is PCM so good clocks matter. Moreover, SACD is typically DSD64. IIRC there are also some at DSD128. The thing with DSD is that it doesn't start sounding really good until up around DSD256 and above (DSD256 is a sweet spot for some dacs). IME a well-recorded CD converted to DSD256 and played back with low jitter clocking typically sounds better than SACD at DSD64 or DSD128. Other people may disagree on that of course, just my personal opinion.
Thanks Markw4 !
Some questions....
The spreadsheet on I2S for DAC's is interesting.
The issues as I see it comes down to if Sony UBP-X800 has a standardised HDMI (A) pin config (which, most likely, it has).
Next; does UBP-X800 send out anything but 48kHz PCM on HDMI 2 (audio only) ?
In the UBP-X800 'Audio Setup' I can choose 'DSD Output Mode' and chose 'Auto' or 'Off' for the HDMI - which indicate 'Auto' to be special - otherwise it makes no sense to give the choise in Setup.
What do you think ?
If all output was PCM 48 KHz - why give this choise ?
Is the conversion to PCM 48 KHz in itself a game stopper to get the I2S signal to the DAC ?
Some people has been fortunate with some OPPO DVD/Bluray models - .....so they must ouput differently !!
Thanks
Some questions....
The spreadsheet on I2S for DAC's is interesting.
The issues as I see it comes down to if Sony UBP-X800 has a standardised HDMI (A) pin config (which, most likely, it has).
Next; does UBP-X800 send out anything but 48kHz PCM on HDMI 2 (audio only) ?
In the UBP-X800 'Audio Setup' I can choose 'DSD Output Mode' and chose 'Auto' or 'Off' for the HDMI - which indicate 'Auto' to be special - otherwise it makes no sense to give the choise in Setup.
What do you think ?
If all output was PCM 48 KHz - why give this choise ?
Is the conversion to PCM 48 KHz in itself a game stopper to get the I2S signal to the DAC ?
Some people has been fortunate with some OPPO DVD/Bluray models - .....so they must ouput differently !!
Thanks
https://www.sony-asia.com/electronics/support/articles/00206001
https://www.whathifi.com/advice/hdmi-arc-and-hdmi-earc-everything-you-need-to-know
http://www.aes-media.org/sections/uk/Conf2011/Presentation_PDFs/14 - john dawson - Audio Transport over HDMI - AES 2011.pdf
Basically most of the cheap converters don't have the (presumably licensed) firmware to receive/decode protected content. So the source device may only send about like what is described in the first link above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
https://www.whathifi.com/advice/hdmi-arc-and-hdmi-earc-everything-you-need-to-know
http://www.aes-media.org/sections/uk/Conf2011/Presentation_PDFs/14 - john dawson - Audio Transport over HDMI - AES 2011.pdf
Basically most of the cheap converters don't have the (presumably licensed) firmware to receive/decode protected content. So the source device may only send about like what is described in the first link above.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection
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I would still like to hear from anyone who has first hand experience with inexpensive 'HDMI to I2S box' and audio signal transfer from Bluray / HDMI to external audio DAC.
I2S over HDMI is not to be confused with anything that complies with the HDMI spec as the Sony output would. They are two very different animals.
hmm.....Sony are excelling in false product declaration....with that 'Audio Menu' in UBP-X800 !!
It's useless as I see it.
So GEERFAB AUDIO D.BOB is the only box that actually works in terms of DSD, with an external DAC ?
https://www.stereophile.com/content/geerfab-audio-dbob-digital-breakout-box.
I'm glad that I at least know how to get the DSD accessable over the network and onto a PC harddisk as a big file !!
It's useless as I see it.
So GEERFAB AUDIO D.BOB is the only box that actually works in terms of DSD, with an external DAC ?
https://www.stereophile.com/content/geerfab-audio-dbob-digital-breakout-box.
I'm glad that I at least know how to get the DSD accessable over the network and onto a PC harddisk as a big file !!
You might dry dropping a CD rip into the following program to produce a DSD256 file (then select/highlight the file to convert and hit the convert button): https://pcmdsd.com/Software/PCM-DSD_Converter_en.html
See how that sounds on a dac as compared to the CD rip wav file. Might sound better than DSD64 from an SACD.
See how that sounds on a dac as compared to the CD rip wav file. Might sound better than DSD64 from an SACD.
Some (but not all) of the chinese dealers here are warning against noise with chip DAC ES9038 (see their black photo text).:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1312&_nkw=i2s&_sacat=0
Like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2840969068...FjX1Fgy7+5AbmDskfFQmibo30=|tkp:Bk9SR6jCkoPaYA
Some are close to 50 US$ and some are close to 100 US$ - are there any technical differnce ? - that matters ?
Which resembles this one a lot from https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-....html?search_query=HDMI to I2S&fast_search=fs
I have audio DAC Topping D90SE with eight chips ES9038PRO - should I avoid theses boxes for the same reason ? - or just change audio DSD output from Bluray Sony UBP-X800, to PCM instead of 'Auto' ?
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1312&_nkw=i2s&_sacat=0
Like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2840969068...FjX1Fgy7+5AbmDskfFQmibo30=|tkp:Bk9SR6jCkoPaYA
Some are close to 50 US$ and some are close to 100 US$ - are there any technical differnce ? - that matters ?
Which resembles this one a lot from https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-....html?search_query=HDMI to I2S&fast_search=fs
I have audio DAC Topping D90SE with eight chips ES9038PRO - should I avoid theses boxes for the same reason ? - or just change audio DSD output from Bluray Sony UBP-X800, to PCM instead of 'Auto' ?
Regarding the Chinese boards, there are some claims that the ones with the decoder chip mounted at a 45-degree angle on the PCB actually seem to work. However, I haven't seen any supporting evidence of bit-perfect passthrough. Not clear everyone can get them to work either.