Well if you know what it means, why not say so earlier? 🙂 It was a simple question - I just asked if you used it. Since you didn't answer, I thought you might not know what it is.
I did burn with EAC and could NOT see that it did verification. It wrote, it ejected - basta.
For those who don't know, verification usually runs like this:
You burn a CD, either audio or data. After the burn, the software reads the new CD and verifies that it matches the original on your HDD, or the original CD you copied. If it does not, then the new CD is rejected. Some CD/DVD burners are not great and often have errors. Ditto cheap media.
I was not able to check burning in DBpoweramp, because I don't have the premium version that allows burning. I have not seen Windows MP do any verification, either.
I did burn with EAC and could NOT see that it did verification. It wrote, it ejected - basta.
For those who don't know, verification usually runs like this:
You burn a CD, either audio or data. After the burn, the software reads the new CD and verifies that it matches the original on your HDD, or the original CD you copied. If it does not, then the new CD is rejected. Some CD/DVD burners are not great and often have errors. Ditto cheap media.
I was not able to check burning in DBpoweramp, because I don't have the premium version that allows burning. I have not seen Windows MP do any verification, either.
It's not trivial to me. I think you'll find there are other people to whom it's not trivial.
Don't imagine I'm going to go away, until you provide a satisfactory answer.
w
😕 I took an unplayable CD and ripped it with EAC and some cheap free ripper. I took the entire 23min of the first cut and subtracted the two as 16 bit data and got all zeros. What difference would correspond to louder?
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Scott, you do not understand. You can't compare the bits. You have to listen.
(Ask Frank Gorshin, he'll tell you it's not all black and white)
BTW - you were lucky to get a perfect rip- there are not always. Thus the programs that try and try again and verify the checksum, among other things. Most CDs, no problem. But some of them are nasty.
(Ask Frank Gorshin, he'll tell you it's not all black and white)
BTW - you were lucky to get a perfect rip- there are not always. Thus the programs that try and try again and verify the checksum, among other things. Most CDs, no problem. But some of them are nasty.
A few of different ones.
If you mean 2 files on the computer I used HDX Hex editor and WinMD5Free. I confirmed that these work by changing just 1 bit and running the checksum again.
If you mean for burned discs, then Roxio, Nero, CDburnerXP, some professional duplication software and several programs on Mac OS9 and OSX. They all read the new disc and verify it, if one chooses to do so.
For secure ripping I've used EAC and dBPoweramp.
For simple audio null then I use DiffMaker software and/or Goldwave.
If you mean 2 files on the computer I used HDX Hex editor and WinMD5Free. I confirmed that these work by changing just 1 bit and running the checksum again.
If you mean for burned discs, then Roxio, Nero, CDburnerXP, some professional duplication software and several programs on Mac OS9 and OSX. They all read the new disc and verify it, if one chooses to do so.
For secure ripping I've used EAC and dBPoweramp.
For simple audio null then I use DiffMaker software and/or Goldwave.
exactfile is another good one.
ExactFile - Make and test MD5, CRC32, SHA1, SFV, md5sum, sha1sum and other hashes, quick and easy.
I just use diff, or md5sum.
But then again I run linux.
For windows my favourite checksumming program is http://www.slavasoft.com/hashcalc/index.htm
But then again I run linux.
For windows my favourite checksumming program is http://www.slavasoft.com/hashcalc/index.htm
Mingw is free for Windows so diff works there too. The checksum thing is a red herring, a byte by byte comparison yielded nothing.
At the level of discourse in this thread, I'd suggest comparing the actual files rather than generating checksums, CRC's, hashcodes, whatever and then comparing those. While I personally have no doubt two essentially "random" files (the results of rips from audio CD's) with the same such code will turn out to be identical, it's possible to generate two different files that will come up with the same code for one of these (or perhaps several) processes, and someone is bound to argue that "the same hashcode doesn't PROVE the both files have the exact same data."
It's easy enough to do a file compare when you've got both files that I want to cut off this possible argument at the pass. And no, I'm not a moderator, just an interested observer who has seen in this very thread how cantankerous this sort of conversation can get.
It's easy enough to do a file compare when you've got both files that I want to cut off this possible argument at the pass. And no, I'm not a moderator, just an interested observer who has seen in this very thread how cantankerous this sort of conversation can get.
I thought I just said that, you are right a clever program could alter all the data and force the checksums to match. I compared every last byte, and it was good.
It'll be a DAMN clever program that leaves the music recognisable and even improved.
w
Sure. But since I changed a single 00 to a 01 and the checksum of the wave files no longer matched, I'm pretty convinced that it shows even minute differences.
Not likely I'd ever hear that tiny change, anyway. And Scott has run bit by bit comparisons.
So I have asked over and over - both here and in private correspondence - where might a i audio files difference lie that the checksum does not find it? So far, not even a theory. And would DiffMaker not find a difference if there was one?
At the level of audibility claimed, shouldn't the differences be much easier to find?
Dammit, I lost a considerable amount of work in one of those excised posts. And a particularly funny remark.
So, a.wayne, SandyK, TerryO,
What about the evidence? The longer you carry on without producing any, the more it looks like you can't produce any. You all claim to believe this stuff about ripping to SS producing identical files that sound different. But you can't demonstrate it. How long do you think you can carry on and expect to be believed? Realistically?
I tried it. Nonsensical though I think it is.
I took the 4G SD card out of my Canon G9 and put it in the card reader, put an immaculate (it belongs to my wife) copy of The Beatles' Abbey Road in the Sony DVD writer (which is the best optical drive in this machine) and ripped a lossless .wav, first to the SD card, then to an 8G USB stick and then to the 250G WD hard drive. I then did an MD5 checksum on all 3 files using WinMD5Free with the following result: 4614643b634199ba5330ea789f9fa14d The result was identical for all 3 files. The track was 'She's so Heavy'
I then listened to all 4 files including the CD.
The files were played on this computer without removing the SS cards from the card reader or USB port. I listened to the files using the M-Audio PCI Audiophile 2496 installed in this machine through a Behringer Xenyx 802 Mixer as headphone amplifier with final output through a pair of Shure E2C in-ear phones. The OS was WinXP. The player was Foobar with ASIO.
I couldn't hear any differences between the files.
You may carry on believing, but how long do you think you can carry on, without any evidence, and expect to be given a tolerant hearing? We're not talking about a matter of religious conviction here, this is something that you could end all argument about, by simply partaking in a test that satisfies us all. If your belief is based on fact, you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
I'm keeping my part of the bargain, I listened. When are you going to ante up?
w
So, a.wayne, SandyK, TerryO,
What about the evidence? The longer you carry on without producing any, the more it looks like you can't produce any. You all claim to believe this stuff about ripping to SS producing identical files that sound different. But you can't demonstrate it. How long do you think you can carry on and expect to be believed? Realistically?
I tried it. Nonsensical though I think it is.
I took the 4G SD card out of my Canon G9 and put it in the card reader, put an immaculate (it belongs to my wife) copy of The Beatles' Abbey Road in the Sony DVD writer (which is the best optical drive in this machine) and ripped a lossless .wav, first to the SD card, then to an 8G USB stick and then to the 250G WD hard drive. I then did an MD5 checksum on all 3 files using WinMD5Free with the following result: 4614643b634199ba5330ea789f9fa14d The result was identical for all 3 files. The track was 'She's so Heavy'
I then listened to all 4 files including the CD.
The files were played on this computer without removing the SS cards from the card reader or USB port. I listened to the files using the M-Audio PCI Audiophile 2496 installed in this machine through a Behringer Xenyx 802 Mixer as headphone amplifier with final output through a pair of Shure E2C in-ear phones. The OS was WinXP. The player was Foobar with ASIO.
I couldn't hear any differences between the files.
You may carry on believing, but how long do you think you can carry on, without any evidence, and expect to be given a tolerant hearing? We're not talking about a matter of religious conviction here, this is something that you could end all argument about, by simply partaking in a test that satisfies us all. If your belief is based on fact, you have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
I'm keeping my part of the bargain, I listened. When are you going to ante up?
w
The way to bring it down a notch, pano, is for the moderation team to intervene a bit quicker with posts like #203.
I'm entitled to make my points without being subjected to jeering. You're operating a double standard.
w
Well yes, theoretically, it's possible, as in Black, Cochran and Highland, but in actual everyday usage the likelihood is infinitesimally small, on the order of 1/ (2^128). Nothing wrong with doing a byte by bye compare though, if it suits your fancy. CPU cycles are cheap.
Waki - I asked nicely. And you've done plenty of jeering yourself, so no double standard.
Perhaps you should stay out of the thread if it makes you so angry. That would be a good idea.
Perhaps you should stay out of the thread if it makes you so angry. That would be a good idea.
Pano is giving you sound advice, Waki. I'm staying out of this thread for the time being as the guys who claim that this makes an audible difference are either suffering from placebo effect and aren't prepared to admit it (their problem), or they're deliberately trying to wind us up (their problem). Either way, it's not our problem.
I've sent a moderator a brief guide I wrote some time ago relating to ABX testing with Foobar2000 to have a play with. That's as far as I'm prepared to get involved as 'the new kid on the block' because I've been in this exact situation many times before on other forums and don't want the ridicule and vitreol focussed on me as the local noob.
Sit back and chill. The truth is out there... as if we don't know what it is already. 😉
I've sent a moderator a brief guide I wrote some time ago relating to ABX testing with Foobar2000 to have a play with. That's as far as I'm prepared to get involved as 'the new kid on the block' because I've been in this exact situation many times before on other forums and don't want the ridicule and vitreol focussed on me as the local noob.
Sit back and chill. The truth is out there... as if we don't know what it is already. 😉
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