Three say no , to OP
"So, anyone else think this? As we listen, we just get bugged by different things?"
I agree 100%. I've thought about this for a long time and it applies to the entire Chain, Horns vs Direct Radiators for one example.. It's true, LP noise doesn't bother me, I can hear into the noise floor and I clearly hear localized bass..
$6k and 2 months was spent on room acoustics, and my TT is sitting on a Bitumen damped half inch metal plate, and this rests on a 200 pound main metal stand.. all of this, has to help with the LP experience, in heavily reducing undesirable noise, from entering the cartridge..
I have the original trinity sessions on LP.. A single "Stereo microphone" was used with no mixing or overdubbing or editing.. I'll admit, the Lp sounds unique, in that it has limited stereo separation as it should with the mic used, but the LP sounds fantastic with gobs of the church reverb present.. I Haven't heard a cd transfer or any remastering of the original 2 track RDAT.. Of course, Trinity sessions revisited is a different animal.. The band sounds great live..
24bit/192khz downloads might give that satisfaction at a cost..I heard only one and it was incredible... But, I have 600 CD that are carefully selected, so getting more out of them, would be nice..
"So, anyone else think this? As we listen, we just get bugged by different things?"
I agree 100%. I've thought about this for a long time and it applies to the entire Chain, Horns vs Direct Radiators for one example.. It's true, LP noise doesn't bother me, I can hear into the noise floor and I clearly hear localized bass..
$6k and 2 months was spent on room acoustics, and my TT is sitting on a Bitumen damped half inch metal plate, and this rests on a 200 pound main metal stand.. all of this, has to help with the LP experience, in heavily reducing undesirable noise, from entering the cartridge..
I have the original trinity sessions on LP.. A single "Stereo microphone" was used with no mixing or overdubbing or editing.. I'll admit, the Lp sounds unique, in that it has limited stereo separation as it should with the mic used, but the LP sounds fantastic with gobs of the church reverb present.. I Haven't heard a cd transfer or any remastering of the original 2 track RDAT.. Of course, Trinity sessions revisited is a different animal.. The band sounds great live..
24bit/192khz downloads might give that satisfaction at a cost..I heard only one and it was incredible... But, I have 600 CD that are carefully selected, so getting more out of them, would be nice..
Hi,
The CD of the original is what it is, the LP master.
It is one of my main reference CD recordings.
FWIW my LP version / pressing was very poor.
rgds, sreten.
Revisited is a gross travesty, the original is great.
The best system I have experienced was vinyl playback. Cartridge was $5K. System was 5 times my yearly income. It was scary. Scary good to hear, scary to use. I can never hope to have this. I can come real close to the sound of lesser rigs with digital.
I miss the cover art.
I miss the ritual.
I don't miss buying another Japanese pressing of "Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" because the needle skips during "Riding the Scree". I heard that skip in my head for years while listening to the CD.
It's much more of an individual "song" thing now, rather than an album thang. I've almost made peace with that.
Having 33K songs on the server, available immediately as the mood, whim, comment, context, or inner need surfaces is quite an advantage.
Most of the stuff I listen to was never available on 180gm Virgin Vinyl. Most seemed to come with dust already imbedded.
I miss the cover art.
I miss the ritual.
I don't miss buying another Japanese pressing of "Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" because the needle skips during "Riding the Scree". I heard that skip in my head for years while listening to the CD.
It's much more of an individual "song" thing now, rather than an album thang. I've almost made peace with that.
Having 33K songs on the server, available immediately as the mood, whim, comment, context, or inner need surfaces is quite an advantage.
Most of the stuff I listen to was never available on 180gm Virgin Vinyl. Most seemed to come with dust already imbedded.
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I've found the main issue is finding a decent recording, regardless of the playback medium. So many CDs sound crap compared with the few Chesky CDs that I own - I've stopped buying CDs yet those Chesky disks are simply wonderful. My vinyl is not working right now.
Try Internet HD or HiRes downloads of masters at 24b/96+ and run them thru a BenchMark 2 USB DAC into a superior power amp and speaker system.
THx-RNMarsh
As Bigun said a couple of posts back, it all depends on the recording and mastering. My CD player doesn’t offer the best digital playback for me though. I’m running a Mac Mini through a USB to SPDIF converter into a very good DAC with valve output stage. This sounds pretty darn good playing high resolution files. Of course I have some vinyl recordings that sound pretty darn good as well, but the winner of the two is not necessarily hands down.
I'm hoping for the digital equivalent of a Nitty Gritty RCM that will suck all the bad bits of my CDs.
I modify entry level DVD players from Sony and Toshiba cost about $20.00 to $30.00 each plus my time and parts. All I can say is I have no impulse to haul out my analog deck since I mover to set it up. Even out of the box they are impressive for the cost.These are 24 bit 196KHz sample rate DAC's they also make for fine transports. With some very simple attention to detail they can sing.
Clearly No ! Until now Vinyl is far ahead. So far, that I believe that the digital developement or base technology requires some revolution.
My friends and me all do research on analogue and digital stuff, but more on Vinyl I admit. We invest in cartridges, built high precision tonearms, test platter bearings, compare motor units......and and .... Analogue is far ahead as I said.
On the digital side we use SSD drives, currently J River, operation system we compare in sound with individual OS tuning tools, the DAC owns many power supplies, tested different circuit and and.
Other friends do other digital projects but we actually were never impressed too.
Bottom line I never heard the realism, the sweet magic in tone, the feeling of being truely there when for e.g. a 60 or 50ty record plays or of course more modern times stuff including audiophile pressing.
As little provocation ;-) A 'cheap' 1000 Dollar Rega with cartridge carefully adjusted both techically and last bit by ear beats a digital 2K$ set up. It's my experience.
Nevertheless I wish to see a digital set up which can bring me even better performance!!
My friends and me all do research on analogue and digital stuff, but more on Vinyl I admit. We invest in cartridges, built high precision tonearms, test platter bearings, compare motor units......and and .... Analogue is far ahead as I said.
On the digital side we use SSD drives, currently J River, operation system we compare in sound with individual OS tuning tools, the DAC owns many power supplies, tested different circuit and and.
Other friends do other digital projects but we actually were never impressed too.
Bottom line I never heard the realism, the sweet magic in tone, the feeling of being truely there when for e.g. a 60 or 50ty record plays or of course more modern times stuff including audiophile pressing.
As little provocation ;-) A 'cheap' 1000 Dollar Rega with cartridge carefully adjusted both techically and last bit by ear beats a digital 2K$ set up. It's my experience.
Nevertheless I wish to see a digital set up which can bring me even better performance!!
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For me it's about the music first, format second. Which often means the better mastering trumps the format, for me. For many it seems to be the opposite though, it's vinyl so it automagically contains 'vinyl mojo'! Witness the dirth of vinyl releases of late, many cut from bog standard CD 'masters', especially by certain film soundtrack labels. We need more honesty about the masters used for many modern releases.
If I HAD to choose, I would go for CD only. I own a very nice, totally rebuilt Garrard 301, SME 309 deck, and my turntable before that was a Technics SP-10 mk.2. Love them both, but my old Naim CDI, and my current Marantz HD-DAC1 both afford me equal listening pleasure to a good LP pressing and turntable. Some people do insist on this 'my team is better than your team' mentality though, which I've never understood. I love both CD and LP. Life's too short to try an argue one over the other 🙂
John
If I HAD to choose, I would go for CD only. I own a very nice, totally rebuilt Garrard 301, SME 309 deck, and my turntable before that was a Technics SP-10 mk.2. Love them both, but my old Naim CDI, and my current Marantz HD-DAC1 both afford me equal listening pleasure to a good LP pressing and turntable. Some people do insist on this 'my team is better than your team' mentality though, which I've never understood. I love both CD and LP. Life's too short to try an argue one over the other 🙂
John
My doctor says I must exercise more, I guess getting my old turntables out would help?
Jumping up and down to lift the arm, brush and flip every 20 minutes and then being distracted by the surface noise would not work for me any more. I cannot see any nostalgia in that, it's rather like regretting the passing of the washboard and mangle.
Jumping up and down to lift the arm, brush and flip every 20 minutes and then being distracted by the surface noise would not work for me any more. I cannot see any nostalgia in that, it's rather like regretting the passing of the washboard and mangle.
Are you saying that those that claim record playback is a more accurate medium are showing luddite tenancies...🙂
I say they are plain wrong.
If they'd say that vinyl records are more pleasant to them to listen to then that may well be true though.
It's the same in a studio situation: Tape and tubes are more euphonic while digital and transistors are more accurate.
You picks your poison...
ahhh forget it
Hello Marce,
seems you're not agreeing at all 😉 - but I shoot back and claim you have no experience at all. Its soooo easy to sit in front of a great great high end system and tell the difference. Digital is really good no question - but why do all people with highest experience agree with me? Look around at fairs - the shows people rave about are Reel to Reel sources or over the top Vinyl set ups. Look at these Asian shows with old cinema speakers. I can only recommend not to become a square digital head and start overlooking the feelings that you receive while sitting in your chair, the dive into music and the overall artistic impressions. That just as a door opener for you not forget to listen before you go to specs only. "Rock n' Roll has died when we set up a douzens of microphones in the studio" Keith Richards once said. Old German Radios with tubes and Alnicos sound stunningly good - a million times better than any plastic radio. Its because the second factor apart from specifications was a natural part of developing at these days. Listening. Its using the not yet understood laws just by experience.
I haven't heard a serious person with experience claiming a Ultra High End CDP 44,1KHZ 16bit is better than equivalent Vinyl set up...sorry.
Digital will be better one day? Yes for sure - this technology is not limited yet.Stop.
Hello Marce,
seems you're not agreeing at all 😉 - but I shoot back and claim you have no experience at all. Its soooo easy to sit in front of a great great high end system and tell the difference. Digital is really good no question - but why do all people with highest experience agree with me? Look around at fairs - the shows people rave about are Reel to Reel sources or over the top Vinyl set ups. Look at these Asian shows with old cinema speakers. I can only recommend not to become a square digital head and start overlooking the feelings that you receive while sitting in your chair, the dive into music and the overall artistic impressions. That just as a door opener for you not forget to listen before you go to specs only. "Rock n' Roll has died when we set up a douzens of microphones in the studio" Keith Richards once said. Old German Radios with tubes and Alnicos sound stunningly good - a million times better than any plastic radio. Its because the second factor apart from specifications was a natural part of developing at these days. Listening. Its using the not yet understood laws just by experience.
I haven't heard a serious person with experience claiming a Ultra High End CDP 44,1KHZ 16bit is better than equivalent Vinyl set up...sorry.
Digital will be better one day? Yes for sure - this technology is not limited yet.Stop.
I can not really say, since my records are played trough digital amplifiers.
But i almost enjoy more the sound from vinyl than CD or Digital Radio.
The CDs are stored on Olive 4HD Music Server going digital into the Tact.
Analog rig is *Silver Spirit* MC from MicroMagic, on Thales Simplicity Tonearm , on EMT 930 St Turntable, via FM Acoustics FM 222 Phonostage, into TacT 2.2 X Digital Preamp, feed the two TacT 2150 Digital Amps, Speaker are Apogee *Duetta* Planar Ribbons and a pair of Tact Corner Woofers with,a ll with Room Correction.
But i almost enjoy more the sound from vinyl than CD or Digital Radio.
The CDs are stored on Olive 4HD Music Server going digital into the Tact.
Analog rig is *Silver Spirit* MC from MicroMagic, on Thales Simplicity Tonearm , on EMT 930 St Turntable, via FM Acoustics FM 222 Phonostage, into TacT 2.2 X Digital Preamp, feed the two TacT 2150 Digital Amps, Speaker are Apogee *Duetta* Planar Ribbons and a pair of Tact Corner Woofers with,a ll with Room Correction.
The answers to this question will not only be subjective, but completely dependent on people's respective digital and vinyl setups.
I enjoy both about equally - maybe a slight edge to the turntable. To put this in perspective, my turntable is a Technics SL-10 with an AT122-EP into a VSPS and my digital setup is CM6631A to WM8740 and out through LME49720HA.
If I play a really well-mastered, excellent pressing that is in mint condition, I think the turntable has a slight edge in "sweetness, realism, etc." - nothing that could be measured. In fact the turntable likely measures worse.
My "digital" setup certainly does a decent job of not sounding too digital, though. I've heard plenty of CD players that are much, much worse.
I enjoy both about equally - maybe a slight edge to the turntable. To put this in perspective, my turntable is a Technics SL-10 with an AT122-EP into a VSPS and my digital setup is CM6631A to WM8740 and out through LME49720HA.
If I play a really well-mastered, excellent pressing that is in mint condition, I think the turntable has a slight edge in "sweetness, realism, etc." - nothing that could be measured. In fact the turntable likely measures worse.
My "digital" setup certainly does a decent job of not sounding too digital, though. I've heard plenty of CD players that are much, much worse.
I'm guessing you must have a Doctor's letter?Hello Marce,
seems you're not agreeing at all 😉 - but I shoot back and claim you have no experience at all. Its soooo easy to sit in front of a great great high end system and tell the difference. Digital is really good no question - but why do all people with highest experience agree with me? Look around at fairs - the shows people rave about are Reel to Reel sources or over the top Vinyl set ups. Look at these Asian shows with old cinema speakers. I can only recommend not to become a square digital head and start overlooking the feelings that you receive while sitting in your chair, the dive into music and the overall artistic impressions. That just as a door opener for you not forget to listen before you go to specs only. "Rock n' Roll has died when we set up a douzens of microphones in the studio" Keith Richards once said. Old German Radios with tubes and Alnicos sound stunningly good - a million times better than any plastic radio. Its because the second factor apart from specifications was a natural part of developing at these days. Listening. Its using the not yet understood laws just by experience.
I haven't heard a serious person with experience claiming a Ultra High End CDP 44,1KHZ 16bit is better than equivalent Vinyl set up...sorry.
Digital will be better one day? Yes for sure - this technology is not limited yet.Stop.
I haven't heard a serious person with experience claiming a Ultra High End CDP 44,1KHZ 16bit is better than equivalent Vinyl set up...sorry.
No True Scotsman. 😀
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