Didn't read much of this thread, did you?
I am very happy with my digital source.
To me the big issue with analogue is the lack of resolution*, blurred speech and mushy, overblown mono bass.
*It seems the general consensus is that vinyl has a resolution comparable to 12bit. The best trained ear can distinguish up to around 20bit so 16bit for a general distribution system appears adequate.
Karajan was a very early supporter of digital audio, as a personal friend he pushed Sony's Akio Morita to pursue it as even the rough prototype was way ahead of vinyl to his ears.
Leonard Bernstein bought an early Synclavier recording system for his home studio.
Personally I am not big-headed enough to claim that my ears are better than theirs. You might feel different...
It was my point that one reason people cannot understand the situation is because of the self-protective behavior. Why protective? Because of the "mine bigger than yours" syndrome.
I don't want to hide behind a curtain just because "mine is small" but I also don't want to join every listening test just because "mine is bigger".
You just don't realize that it is you who is insecure.
Why unbelievable? You don't even understand those words. I believe that is because you don't try, not because you can't.
It was not a comment. And it has nothing to do with age or maturity.
Believe me, I am far from insecure. I'm not the one proposing illogical hypotheses. I do believe the bulk of "audiophiles" that spout this are more enamoured with their cleverness than the content of their thought. That is immature. Ask any smart *** 10 year old -- they'll twist and turn their comments around just to not be wrong, boast of their skills and put down others. Sound familiar?
Let's rephrase your hypothesis to remove the double negative into an equivalent and less "clever" sounding statement:
"even if you cannot hear distortion, it doesn't mean that you are not affected by it".
"even if you cannot hear distortion, you are affected by it."
"You are affected by distortion you cannot hear."
Riiiiight.
Let's rephrase your hypothesis to remove the double negative into an equivalent and less "clever" sounding statement:
"even if you cannot hear distortion, it doesn't mean that you are not affected by it".
"even if you cannot hear distortion, you are affected by it."
"You are affected by distortion you cannot hear."
Riiiiight.
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So what is the established threshold?
This is an honest question as I do not know.
Since doing the Klippel test I know what mine was using my speakers and amps on that day. (I've tried it a few times when I first found the Klippel test and the results varied.Haven't been able to listen to Tracy Chapman since.) I expect my electronics to measure at least one order of magnitude less, which is easily done, so I don't have to worry about that aspect of their performance.
With speakers it becomes more difficult hence I am more interested in speaker building. Not many speakers get there but I see no point in re-inventing the wheel when it comes to electronics.
There is one way to be affected by distortion you do not hear.... it's to read the specs of the unit you are listening to and *imagine* that you can hear the distortion. In other words, you can be biased.
Cool.
Yes, I'm the one, what's wrong with that 😀 So that's illogical?
Why has this anything to do with me? You have another experiences? Let's talk about those experiences 😀 But no, I have never thought anyone with an inquiry mind as immature.
Twisting just not to be wrong? Do I look like afraid of being wrong?
I have never known any 10 yo like that. Adults, yes.
I don't know why have you such an attitude towards my hypothesis 😀 🙄
You are very funny. Now I think you are immature hehe 😉
Having an inquiry mind is more like questioning own self than questioning others.
You're thinking about THD I believe. How about phase distortions? Inter-modulations? (And many others...)
So you're thinking about THD. If you cannot "prove" that you can hear beyond -48dB, does that mean -50dB and -100dB will all be the same to you? (This is related to my hypothesis mentioned previously).
Frank has more faith in you guys, I don't. He thinks, by training yourselves you can improve your ability to recognize distortions. I believe he's right, but I also believe people born different from each other.
Are you not afraid of that hypothesis: "we are measuring the wrong thing"?
There are a LOT of things to measure in an amplifier. Are you thinking about THD? There are different kind of harmonics in a THD (2nd, 3rd, and so on) with different spectrum. It can be THD at 1kHz, 10kHz, 20kHz (which one do you think is more relevant?). And if it is a THD at 1W, are you sure it is the same at your listening SPL? Then how do you relate THD with conditions before and after CLG?
Add current mirror to an amplifier (Linn) and the distortion will be reduced a LOT. Now what would be the consequences of that?
Yes, Frank is not there yet. He thinks it is all about amplifier, which most people here I believe cannot differentiate in a blind test, between $3 amp and $3000 amp.
Not quite, Jay, for me it's about the system, the sum total of all the components and the environment they're in. I'm particular sensitive to the artifacts that typically intrude when there are weaknesses in some area of this combination - they're the reason that audio systems so often sound like 'hifi', that is, sort of spectacular in certain ways, but so obviously not the real thing, and when the volume is turned up they sound ridiculous, or downright obnoxious.
Top quality speakers will improve the experience with certain types of very 'purist' recordings - a lone acoustic instrument, say - but these type of recordings are rare for me - to be blunt, I find this type of music probably the least interesting one can listen to.
What fascinates me is being able to put on very raw, "poor quality", extremely messy recordings and hearing them 'work' - they are a delight to listen to, because of the complexity of the textures of sound. And making that come across, in a convincing and satisfying way, will never happen, even with the most brilliant of speakers, if the earlier part of the chain has already done too much damage ...
Can't find the study, however I don't feel the need to test that and don't care about any music above 15k.
The test can be done with the next record I buy.
I can discriminate the vinyl distortions which are compensated by higher resolution. 2 years ago in Christmas I let the family listen to a Christmas CD and my dad's old badly wear off vinyl copy. Between the cracks and pops and among noise floor following the music (+heavy distortion) everyone preferred the higher resolution of the high pitched bells and singing vinyl.
Pray explain please. If someone is trying to sell their particular product why should you believe them?
Complex field and the field involved and the equations that describe them are complex too.
This is a typical failure of mediocre CD replay - it doesn't 'do' high pitched bells and similar well - the qualities are certainly there in the recording, but they're lost on the way to the speakers, mangled by interference linked distortions - one 'correct' replay of such a recording will demonstrate that it is all about the inadequacy of equipment otherwise used, to work properly ...
Learn to play a musical instrument properly and then listen to your audio kit...or see a live concert and then do the same when you get home.
Then you find that that said audio system is awful - analogue or digital, cheap or expensive.
Explain that scientifically if you can...
Oh, and the term ' enquiry mind ' is appalling English btw.
Perhaps ' enquiring mind ' would be more appropriate....lol
Now which mega clever sh... said it first ?
I know....😀
Just saying...
Then you find that that said audio system is awful - analogue or digital, cheap or expensive.
Explain that scientifically if you can...
Oh, and the term ' enquiry mind ' is appalling English btw.
Perhaps ' enquiring mind ' would be more appropriate....lol
Now which mega clever sh... said it first ?
I know....😀
Just saying...
The "awfulness" is because the system is not working correctly - this is distortion, pure and simple - but many 'audiophiles' don't understand that they're listening for the 'wrong' thing when trying to hear what needs to be done ...
Luckily, this is all fixable - no "scientific explanation" needed, just that one's hearing is far more "intelligent" than the thinking mind trying to dissect it all into neat, rational, pigeonholing explanations, 😛.
Simple answers ... number one, the system must be able to go loud, and number two, to be able to do that cleanly. One is easy, two is hard - but if you can knock off two then it all falls into place - then it can happen that the live concert is not as good as the home system, 😀.
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