I slightly disagree. They don't think they like or-dis like the Bose sound. That *our* frame of reference not theirs! Rather they can't tell the difference and don't care. Bose units, at leat the "Lifestyle" are relatively small, visually pleasing and look nice in a living room. Not everyone wants a pair of Revells or Magnepans plus some large Krell, Byston or even Sunfire boxes stacked up in their living room. I think the most direct competitor to Bose is B&O. If music is just for casual background listening and you only want smallish pretty things in your living area this is all perfectly rational.
Both Bose and B&O have some brand recognition (deserved in our opinion or not) which may have some value with regard to winning points from guests. How many non-audiphile guests are going to be impressed (assuming you care) with an anomymous black box that you identify as a Pass Aelph or Slone Opti-Mos? They won't know what you are talking about and at most smile politely at the nut case (you).
Here's some info on the WaveRadio,and it's EQ,etc.
http://www.mfk-projects.com/other_measurements.htm
taken from this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33795&highlight=
http://www.mfk-projects.com/other_measurements.htm
taken from this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33795&highlight=
While Henry Koss was still active at Cambridge Soundworks I thought that from a sound quality point of view he was reponsible products that actually achieved what Bose claimed. And for a reasonable cost.
Regarding the Wave Radio I recently saw a better looking FFT plot coming comming from a buzzing triac! I'm not making this up. What's intellectually interesting is that the rather odd fake stereo seems to be percieved by some as better and more than it is. My resonse was "not too bad for a table radio but not enough to spend $350." What gets me is I don't see how the spectra could be that bad unintentionally. I'm sure similar sized Tang Band drivers that don't cost any more would have a better plot. Would having cleaner sounding drivers remove some of the "effect"? If one didn't mind spending their time on this, there are some interesting questions here.
Regarding the Wave Radio I recently saw a better looking FFT plot coming comming from a buzzing triac! I'm not making this up. What's intellectually interesting is that the rather odd fake stereo seems to be percieved by some as better and more than it is. My resonse was "not too bad for a table radio but not enough to spend $350." What gets me is I don't see how the spectra could be that bad unintentionally. I'm sure similar sized Tang Band drivers that don't cost any more would have a better plot. Would having cleaner sounding drivers remove some of the "effect"? If one didn't mind spending their time on this, there are some interesting questions here.
does anyone listen to a sub-optimal system?
yes, I will admit, mea maxima culpa, to using a Sony BoomBox in my laboratory -- and most of the time it's on a.m. talk-radio --
yes, I will admit, mea maxima culpa, to using a Sony BoomBox in my laboratory -- and most of the time it's on a.m. talk-radio --
jackinnj :
Listening to news and interviews in a boom box is fine.
Paying $350 for a boom box isn't.
🙂
Price of sub-optimal equipment should be set accordingly.
Listening to news and interviews in a boom box is fine.
Paying $350 for a boom box isn't.
🙂
Price of sub-optimal equipment should be set accordingly.
jackinnj said:
we all do: we drive sub-optimal cars, live in sub-optimal houses, marry sub-optimal spouses, make sub-optimal decisions and have sub-optimal jobs.
There is even a term for it: constrained optimality.
tlf9999 said:
So as per the posters original question, there is no schematic available ?
And to the direction of this thread, BOSE sound sucks. Not because i know whats in it, i dont. It doesnt even sound good in the rooms their dealers have to build for it. Bay Bloor Radio here in toronto has a floor dedicated to it. They make it so its annoying to go all the way downstairs and listen to any other stereo somponents. Once i heard hi end home audio with 'MY' favorite music, i couldnt stand those little cubes and a cereal box they sell. I went on line to investigate and found you guys.
Get any non audiophile to listen to anything else electronics wise and THEN take them to BOSE and see if they think its all that great then. Unfortunately their wives might push for the 'lifestyle' look but if he is wearing any pants he will say, and he can quote me since i have friends that are divorce lawyers and i can hook him up.
"Honey, do you have a job? Do you work 50 hours a week earning money to buy things? No, you dont. I always let you get your way babe but this time this is a man thing. You said you dont care about sound. Well i do. And i am not wasting 2000 dollars on this pretty peice of junk. Lets not fight about this, save the scrap for something signifigant. I am sure 'WE' can work this out later. If not feel free to go home to your mothers.
"That should allow you to buy your speakers in piece. If not, well then do what i do. Trade in your women and make sure they go through Girlfriend training next time around.😎
Seriously though. If BOSE was priced at its performance level then it would not get so badly flamed. But they are a blantant rip off as is the B&O gear. All style no substance and laboratory measurements dont say as much as just hearing them against even the crappy Athena loudspeakers on an Onkyo surround sound system at Future Shop. Total Smack Down. In this case there is no "it sounds right for me" cop out. It isnt even close to sounds 'right'. Saying its good enough for me is a cop out.
flame off
That radio price is a scandall
This is not more clever marketing, it is a brain wash.
Adolf Hitler used to say, the more you lye, the more they believe.
Terrible that isnt'it?
regards,
Carlos
This is not more clever marketing, it is a brain wash.
Adolf Hitler used to say, the more you lye, the more they believe.
Terrible that isnt'it?
regards,
Carlos
Hello elf9999,
Just Letting you know that once and a while in this sub-optmal wolrd , you can find a optimal wife, i found mine by accident and married her after 2 and a half months. Of course she can give me the ***** like any other woman, but the thing to remember is It's the amount that counts, you can never get rid of it all together, but as long as it isn't left to build up into a stinking pile you be ok!
Any woman that lets you have a hobby and only complains once and a while, can't be to bad.
P.S she has a lovely *** (very important!) hahaha!
Just Letting you know that once and a while in this sub-optmal wolrd , you can find a optimal wife, i found mine by accident and married her after 2 and a half months. Of course she can give me the ***** like any other woman, but the thing to remember is It's the amount that counts, you can never get rid of it all together, but as long as it isn't left to build up into a stinking pile you be ok!
Any woman that lets you have a hobby and only complains once and a while, can't be to bad.
P.S she has a lovely *** (very important!) hahaha!
BOSE sound
As Pinkmouse rightly noted, nobody seems to be helpful in providing schematics but enjoy flogging the BOSE horse. Somebody said that BOSE products are a rip off using TL072s for a few hundred bucks equipment but then, I'm sure when you open up and exotic amp costing say a hundred grand, I sure the parts and research put together is very very much cheaper than the BMW or Merc you could buy for the same price, right?? Strange way people attach value for money, don't you think so??
Anyway, I'm not looking for a flaming session and to answer xplod's question, if you're talking about the BOSE 901 series, the EQ is analog. I've rebuilt my unit using better components and discovered that using better quality passive components and throwing in a regulated power supply made quite a difference for the better but substituting pin compatible modern $$$$ op amps in place for the TL072s DID NOT improve the sound in the sense of musicality. The modern LTs and AD expensive op amps did improve details and dynamics but the overall musicality was gone. The sound became hard hitting and aggressive prompting you to stop listening after a while. Probably a case of mismatch with the BOSE drivers character.
So, if Joe average likes BOSE sound, lets live and let live as I for one do not want to hear Schumacher driving a ferrari through a Krell amp in my hall!
As Pinkmouse rightly noted, nobody seems to be helpful in providing schematics but enjoy flogging the BOSE horse. Somebody said that BOSE products are a rip off using TL072s for a few hundred bucks equipment but then, I'm sure when you open up and exotic amp costing say a hundred grand, I sure the parts and research put together is very very much cheaper than the BMW or Merc you could buy for the same price, right?? Strange way people attach value for money, don't you think so??
Anyway, I'm not looking for a flaming session and to answer xplod's question, if you're talking about the BOSE 901 series, the EQ is analog. I've rebuilt my unit using better components and discovered that using better quality passive components and throwing in a regulated power supply made quite a difference for the better but substituting pin compatible modern $$$$ op amps in place for the TL072s DID NOT improve the sound in the sense of musicality. The modern LTs and AD expensive op amps did improve details and dynamics but the overall musicality was gone. The sound became hard hitting and aggressive prompting you to stop listening after a while. Probably a case of mismatch with the BOSE drivers character.
So, if Joe average likes BOSE sound, lets live and let live as I for one do not want to hear Schumacher driving a ferrari through a Krell amp in my hall!
OK - the main arguments I am hearing as to why Bose is evil
- Bose is not top quality
* I Cannot disagree with this - their sound is not to my taste, however I know others who enjoy the sound much better than my "cleaner - more pure" system.
-Bose are evil because they make huge markups on raw materials
* So do a number of other audio manufacturers - The Gaincard being a prime example of this.
-Bose does not design equipment optimaly (eg electrolytics in signal path)
* So I gather from this Blackgates are not to your taste.
To convert a Bozo - the only way is through gentle nudging toward other types of equipment. If they still like the sound of the Bose who has the right to tell them that their taste in sound is incorrect.
Captain Solo - Raise the flame shields
- Bose is not top quality
* I Cannot disagree with this - their sound is not to my taste, however I know others who enjoy the sound much better than my "cleaner - more pure" system.
-Bose are evil because they make huge markups on raw materials
* So do a number of other audio manufacturers - The Gaincard being a prime example of this.
-Bose does not design equipment optimaly (eg electrolytics in signal path)
* So I gather from this Blackgates are not to your taste.
To convert a Bozo - the only way is through gentle nudging toward other types of equipment. If they still like the sound of the Bose who has the right to tell them that their taste in sound is incorrect.
Captain Solo - Raise the flame shields
Hello DIYMAN,
You state that you have rebuild the EQ circuit and changed so opamps.
Is the Main Amp boards in your unit made up of ic's or Transistors?
You state that you have rebuild the EQ circuit and changed so opamps.
Is the Main Amp boards in your unit made up of ic's or Transistors?
BOSE Eq
Mine is a BOSE 901 Series 4 EQ. The semiconductors are all TL074 op amps. What I did was to duplicate the circuit board using a better fibreglass PCB. I incorporated an elaborate regulated PSU instead of the original sloppy transformer and zener regulation.For resistors, I used philips SFR25 series metal films(cheap and good) and for caps, I used LCR polystyrene wherever possible or Philips PPs. All the parts were stock items from Farnell. The sound improvement was actually quite noticeable. As for opamps, I found that the stock TLs actually sounded better than expensive pin for pin compatibles from Analog Devices or Linear Technologies. Though the stock TLs were not so detailed and dynamic, there is generally a feeling or naturalness or (musicality) that was replaced by a very forward and dynamic attacking sound from newer devices causing listening fatigue. I had also installed multiple inputs to accept signals directly from sources rather than taking the signal from the preamp "tape monitor out". Bipassing multiple switching in the preamp definitely helps. BTW, this EQ is purpose built for BOSE 901s ONLY. They sound TERRIBLE with other systems and likewise the BOSE 901s without it, IS TOTALLY UNLISTENABLE!!! Probably this is one of the reasons why many say the 901s are rubbish. I've seen many systems playing the 901s WITHOUT the EQ.
My 2 cts
Mine is a BOSE 901 Series 4 EQ. The semiconductors are all TL074 op amps. What I did was to duplicate the circuit board using a better fibreglass PCB. I incorporated an elaborate regulated PSU instead of the original sloppy transformer and zener regulation.For resistors, I used philips SFR25 series metal films(cheap and good) and for caps, I used LCR polystyrene wherever possible or Philips PPs. All the parts were stock items from Farnell. The sound improvement was actually quite noticeable. As for opamps, I found that the stock TLs actually sounded better than expensive pin for pin compatibles from Analog Devices or Linear Technologies. Though the stock TLs were not so detailed and dynamic, there is generally a feeling or naturalness or (musicality) that was replaced by a very forward and dynamic attacking sound from newer devices causing listening fatigue. I had also installed multiple inputs to accept signals directly from sources rather than taking the signal from the preamp "tape monitor out". Bipassing multiple switching in the preamp definitely helps. BTW, this EQ is purpose built for BOSE 901s ONLY. They sound TERRIBLE with other systems and likewise the BOSE 901s without it, IS TOTALLY UNLISTENABLE!!! Probably this is one of the reasons why many say the 901s are rubbish. I've seen many systems playing the 901s WITHOUT the EQ.
My 2 cts
This Bose appliances are very problematic, as very registered that is made in the USA
And it is very hard, to US. Citizens Pride, to observe, to recognize, to say and even to evaluate bad this Icon of the USA.
This thread is very difficult, will never find some solution related the brand...if good or not.
A very delicated subject.
I heard once..... but will not tell nothing about, as i can do that, bose is not really a diy equipment, so...i can scape from that.
I heard once.... did not heard twice...i heard once!
regards,
Carlos
And it is very hard, to US. Citizens Pride, to observe, to recognize, to say and even to evaluate bad this Icon of the USA.
This thread is very difficult, will never find some solution related the brand...if good or not.
A very delicated subject.
I heard once..... but will not tell nothing about, as i can do that, bose is not really a diy equipment, so...i can scape from that.
I heard once.... did not heard twice...i heard once!
regards,
Carlos
I wish someone had been able to answer the original post. I'm getting curious to see what the schematics look like.
Hello DIYMAN,
Your comment about the sound being clearer with the better quality opamps you tried before going back to the cheap original ones, because of listener fatique, I was told the same thing when I built the JLH 10W Class A, Everyone prefered my Class B which isn't as clear and sharp sounding, I think this is because this is the sound they are used to listening too everywhere they go and their ears are use to the sound of Class B. Maybe this is the reason that Bose sells so many of their Amps.
Also something else that comes to mind is one day my niece's were visiting and got bored and were listening to their favorite music in their parents car outside and had the sound turned up fully and the distortion sounded like it must have been at 20%. You couldn't listen to it, but they were singing away to it and i asked them how can you listen to that and they said what's wrong with it, the sound could have been coming out of half stuffed speaker and they still wouldn't have cared. As long as they can here their favorite song, that's all they seem to care about.
Your comment about the sound being clearer with the better quality opamps you tried before going back to the cheap original ones, because of listener fatique, I was told the same thing when I built the JLH 10W Class A, Everyone prefered my Class B which isn't as clear and sharp sounding, I think this is because this is the sound they are used to listening too everywhere they go and their ears are use to the sound of Class B. Maybe this is the reason that Bose sells so many of their Amps.
Also something else that comes to mind is one day my niece's were visiting and got bored and were listening to their favorite music in their parents car outside and had the sound turned up fully and the distortion sounded like it must have been at 20%. You couldn't listen to it, but they were singing away to it and i asked them how can you listen to that and they said what's wrong with it, the sound could have been coming out of half stuffed speaker and they still wouldn't have cared. As long as they can here their favorite song, that's all they seem to care about.
I have the intentions to search to see the speaker insides.
The speaker enclosure may have a long curved tunel.
Some of you have the speaker enclosure internal diagram?
I am very curious related those Bose.
regards,
Carlos
The speaker enclosure may have a long curved tunel.
Some of you have the speaker enclosure internal diagram?
I am very curious related those Bose.
regards,
Carlos
I already found a big thread, in our Speaker forum, about Bose.
Here is the link, if you need some information:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=107470#post107470
And here is some images you will found there:
regards
Carlos
Here is the link, if you need some information:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=107470#post107470
And here is some images you will found there:
regards
Carlos
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