Hi peeps
In my uni (creative sound design course), we in a group have been assigned a project to work on a film and do some live Foley and sound effects for the film.
Now the effect we want in this project (because its mostly about impact) is serious heart wrenching bass, I mean seriously powerful bass.
we have have a few 15" subwoofer in our student bar we could use, but although they are good they aint that great.
Now because we have a good budget for this, I would like to know what hornloaded subwoofers/enclosures you would suggest.
the room size that we are using is enough to seat 200 people and is design like a cinema, but it has a dead sounding space (like a studio)
I was not keen on using dozens of subs lined up. I am really after the most efficient loudest sub/enclosure combination.
what do u guys suggest?
In my uni (creative sound design course), we in a group have been assigned a project to work on a film and do some live Foley and sound effects for the film.
Now the effect we want in this project (because its mostly about impact) is serious heart wrenching bass, I mean seriously powerful bass.
we have have a few 15" subwoofer in our student bar we could use, but although they are good they aint that great.
Now because we have a good budget for this, I would like to know what hornloaded subwoofers/enclosures you would suggest.
the room size that we are using is enough to seat 200 people and is design like a cinema, but it has a dead sounding space (like a studio)
I was not keen on using dozens of subs lined up. I am really after the most efficient loudest sub/enclosure combination.
what do u guys suggest?
If you are looking for the gut wrenching bass like at some concerts, you ought to consider PA drivers. These are efficient and are made to operate in those frequencies. A sub is not as likely to give you that same sensation.
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=plans
As good a start as any.
You need an idea of how loud you want, and how low you want before you can make a proper decision.
How big is the budget, and does it include buying amps / crossovers etc ?
Most horn designs are meant to be used in multiples to get the proper effect. Corner loading or flare extenders can 'cheat' this a bit.
Rob.
As good a start as any.
You need an idea of how loud you want, and how low you want before you can make a proper decision.
How big is the budget, and does it include buying amps / crossovers etc ?
Most horn designs are meant to be used in multiples to get the proper effect. Corner loading or flare extenders can 'cheat' this a bit.
Rob.
hi peeps
i kinda wrote that post in a hurry so il be a little more clear
im looking for something with a frequency response of around 30hz-120hz
iv seen some cervin vega PA subwoofers (folded horn design i think) that claim to produce bass upto 139db without using multiple enclosures, but im hoping to find something more powerful than that (145db plus if that is posible)
ideally we would prefere to only have to use 2-6 speaker cabinets.
we have plenty of power amp wise (Crown, Mackie and some others) so power is not an issue.
cost wise around £4 k but this is negotiable since, the equiptment is going to be use for future events over here.
iv seen many PA hornloaded designs etc and one that has caught my interest is Fitzmaurice Tuba 36 and the Labhorns. i want to build the loudest (with serious impact) system and im just interested in which speaker/enclosure combination would offer this?
i kinda wrote that post in a hurry so il be a little more clear
im looking for something with a frequency response of around 30hz-120hz
iv seen some cervin vega PA subwoofers (folded horn design i think) that claim to produce bass upto 139db without using multiple enclosures, but im hoping to find something more powerful than that (145db plus if that is posible)
ideally we would prefere to only have to use 2-6 speaker cabinets.
we have plenty of power amp wise (Crown, Mackie and some others) so power is not an issue.
cost wise around £4 k but this is negotiable since, the equiptment is going to be use for future events over here.
iv seen many PA hornloaded designs etc and one that has caught my interest is Fitzmaurice Tuba 36 and the Labhorns. i want to build the loudest (with serious impact) system and im just interested in which speaker/enclosure combination would offer this?
6 of either the labs or the tuba36's should do something special.😎 And you'd get change from the £4k.
I haven't seen many other designs that get down to 30Hz. Mind you there's many people here who know a lot more about horns than me.
Cheers,
Rob.
I haven't seen many other designs that get down to 30Hz. Mind you there's many people here who know a lot more about horns than me.
Cheers,
Rob.
The 30 Hz - 120 Hz claim by Cerwin Vega is for a stack not a single unit, they however seem to forget to mention such detail.
Also 132 dB with 1000 Watts seems to make more sense looking at size and horn aspects, as you're probably not interested in a theoretcal peak power output at a frequency not reproduced by a sub in the first place.
I've heard some over the weekend and admitt they do a good job but sometimes the marketing department just seems to have lost any contact with reality.
145 dB is completely over the top IMO and usually the output of 4 - 6 horn loaded 18" (stacked).
A single Labhorn each side 1/4 or 1/8 th space should do the trick in a space that suites 200 people. It's very room dependent, so the room size and/or measurements would be interesting to know. What kind of tops are you planning to use and what about the amplifiers/processing?
Wkr Johan
Also 132 dB with 1000 Watts seems to make more sense looking at size and horn aspects, as you're probably not interested in a theoretcal peak power output at a frequency not reproduced by a sub in the first place.
I've heard some over the weekend and admitt they do a good job but sometimes the marketing department just seems to have lost any contact with reality.
145 dB is completely over the top IMO and usually the output of 4 - 6 horn loaded 18" (stacked).
A single Labhorn each side 1/4 or 1/8 th space should do the trick in a space that suites 200 people. It's very room dependent, so the room size and/or measurements would be interesting to know. What kind of tops are you planning to use and what about the amplifiers/processing?
Wkr Johan
Check out Wayne Parham's 12pi bass horn. It is based on the lab, same drivers but its bigger and includes innovations to increase the power handling, reduce distortion further, and doesn't need as many cabs.
Nothing wrong with having "over the top" output capability. This means even lower distortion.
Also keep in mind that driver excursion can get out of control below tuning. LFE use with high power amps can kill the drivers down low. Waynes horn can take 1.6kw per cab, but I'd expect that any subsonic content could make a mess of the drivers with much less than that if not filtered.
Nothing wrong with having "over the top" output capability. This means even lower distortion.
Also keep in mind that driver excursion can get out of control below tuning. LFE use with high power amps can kill the drivers down low. Waynes horn can take 1.6kw per cab, but I'd expect that any subsonic content could make a mess of the drivers with much less than that if not filtered.
anything in the 30hz and up range woudl be EXTREMELY unpleasant. It would hurt, cause permanent hearing damage and could even rupture an eardrum if you are close enough to the drivers.
If i were doing the same as you, i would go for maybe 2 enclosures of 4 or 8 18s (the daytons at partsexpress are a great candidate) in a bass reflex tuned to 35-40hz. That should be MORE than enough for a room that fits 200 people.
With a room that big youre not going to get alot of room gain so you should probably aim to get loud in the 40-50hz rand instead of aiming to get lower. Remember the subs will still have output down lower, just not much, but it will still give a good rumble effect.
Look at the types of setups alot of theatres have, even the ones with the huge screens and massive audiences, dont aim to go much lwoer than 40hz. Most of the bass that you really feel hit you is in that range, and a CLEAN 40hz sounds alot lower than one might think.
If i were doing the same as you, i would go for maybe 2 enclosures of 4 or 8 18s (the daytons at partsexpress are a great candidate) in a bass reflex tuned to 35-40hz. That should be MORE than enough for a room that fits 200 people.
With a room that big youre not going to get alot of room gain so you should probably aim to get loud in the 40-50hz rand instead of aiming to get lower. Remember the subs will still have output down lower, just not much, but it will still give a good rumble effect.
Look at the types of setups alot of theatres have, even the ones with the huge screens and massive audiences, dont aim to go much lwoer than 40hz. Most of the bass that you really feel hit you is in that range, and a CLEAN 40hz sounds alot lower than one might think.
like i mentioned above guys, the amplification that i am using would either be Crown or Mackie most likely. i dont know the exact specs of the amps avalible to us but they are pretty powerful, and heavy.
also we have a stack of them at our disposal, ill have a closer look when i get the chance at uni.
im not really just after rumble-like bass at 30hz, but rather heart pounding bass (which im assuming is around 40-70hz?), the few subs we already have here go fairly deep, but they tend to just rattle the room with little punch at all.
i understand hornloaded is the way to go like i said, but no one has really mentioned what drivers work well with some of these horn designs, i know a fair amount about subs but my knowleage on PA woofers and PA box/driver is limited.
also we have a stack of them at our disposal, ill have a closer look when i get the chance at uni.
im not really just after rumble-like bass at 30hz, but rather heart pounding bass (which im assuming is around 40-70hz?), the few subs we already have here go fairly deep, but they tend to just rattle the room with little punch at all.
i understand hornloaded is the way to go like i said, but no one has really mentioned what drivers work well with some of these horn designs, i know a fair amount about subs but my knowleage on PA woofers and PA box/driver is limited.
riddlah said:
All the diy horns mentioned have recommended drivers on their plans / sites. A search on google will pull up all the info you need on any of them. All the horns on the speakerplans.com link I posted earlier have recommended drivers on the plans too.
Look at the punisher horn too.
Rob.
thanks for the info
the other reason why i ask aswell is i wanted to hear from DIY'ers/audio guys real world experiances too, most sites seem to boast about their designs etc and are of course a little biased towards their own.
it would be nice to hear experianced peep's opinions that have used many different combinations PA driver/enclosure combinations, and what their opinions is on what they felt was the most impressive etc
the other reason why i ask aswell is i wanted to hear from DIY'ers/audio guys real world experiances too, most sites seem to boast about their designs etc and are of course a little biased towards their own.
it would be nice to hear experianced peep's opinions that have used many different combinations PA driver/enclosure combinations, and what their opinions is on what they felt was the most impressive etc
riddlah said:
Build four '1850' horns or four WSX horn clones at speakerplans.com and you should be happy. A few kilowatts into a 108dB/1watt/1metre system@ 45hz is bound to impress.
Mike.e
The lab horn seems a pretty sure bet. There are comments from Rob on another thread on his pair, and I've never heard anything bad about them.
I have a couple of fitz tuba 18's. Love 'em.
I can only imagine a couple 36's would disassemble a house.
I can only imagine a couple 36's would disassemble a house.
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