Actually, it's neither. 😉
There is no responsibility in this instance.
There is an implied warranty that the connectors function for the purpose of an electrical and mechanical connection as a "binding post" substitute.
That's pretty much it.
(you can of course "deem" this accountability on the part of the seller when making your decision, but any real accountability on the part of the seller in this context is strictly fiction.)
I’m afraid it is you, not me, that is leading people down a path of despair.
Edgar77 in his first post #40 makes it perfectly clear that he wants to build DIY speakers, because in his words:
“I would like to build my own speakers. And I am pretty sure it should be possible to build good quality speakers for less than what high end companies charge for their speakers”.
And he then goes on to ask for some help and suggestions. And that is exactly what happens next. A few posts later Scottmoose provides him a whole list of very good ideas for where to find kits by well recognized, excellent designers.
And all of that is fine until you completely derail the conversation with post #52 by telling him that he should buy commercial speakers instead. Either the $238 pair of JBL 305/Ps or the $3600 per of JBL 705/8Ps. And that he can’t possible do any better by building his own.
Now you’ve got the guy so confused that he doesn’t know what to do anymore.
Some of us have tried to add more information and context to the discussion, but you are the one who started the path of despair.
I’m surprised that you didn’t insist that he immediately put in a 5.1 system, or a 3 speaker system at the least. That’s seems to be the only solution that you think is any good any more. Stereo according to you is passé. Gone. Kaput. No good. Why invest in the boring past instead of the exciting future? What happened to that advice, which was your mantra in the recent past?
So no, I’m afraid that it is you who is causing confusion here. Not me or any of the others who have tried to help.
Finally, you don't seem to recognize that this is a DIY forum. Instead you keep bringing commercially produced speakers into the conversation. I said before that I think you would be much happier over on one of the home theater forums where your ideas and suggestions will fit much better.
It depends on where you look. You are right that in the written product description of tube connectors on the GR Research website there is no claim of superior audio performance. They are too smart to put it there since they know it can't be proven.
But if you search for discussions of tube connectors on the GR Research paid section of the AudioCircle forum you will find glowing reviews from the fan boy club along with Danny himself claiming superior performance in multiple posts.
I don't how that translates into a legal item, but there is no doubt that he makes claims of significant sound improvement without any testing or other means of proof.
..any such claims (by him/GR Research) are just advertising drivel. You know: Marketing ******** 😀
..and just about ANY "high-end" seller/reseller does this (..and they probably wouldn't stay in business if they didn't do it.)
..and just about ANY "high-end" seller/reseller does this (..and they probably wouldn't stay in business if they didn't do it.)
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Thanks for all your comments.
Summary: I give up with DIY audio.
This thread is already a good example. A few experts and very different opinions. Over the last months I watched lot of videos and read lots of articles and lots of threads on different forums.
I am not sure if we name the others here. There is that forum with the circle and it seems many people over there are 100% sure that only listening counts. And many of them are sure they can hear the difference between mains power cables. Then there is the Science forum. Lots of measurements with very expensive devices. And lots of members who discuss if it is relevant if a tweeter is good for 35kHz and not only 25kHz. They also have their accurate scores based on measurements over there. And most members agree that some speakers with better scores don't sound as good as speakers with lower scores.
And now back to here. I am sure I would learn more if I would read many more post and if I would build many different speakers and test them with different amps, music, rooms, and and and.
Which brings me back to my summary. I give up, this is just too much. And I am sure even if I would for one year spend ever day hours learning and listening it would only end up arguing on a higher level with people who did this already for 10 or 20 years.
So probably I will buy the JBL 708P or something similar and live with them. At least then I won't have to worry about matching amps and tube connectors and which speaker cables I should buy. Will they be 100% the best for all situations? I am sure not. Will they be pretty good for most situations? I guess so. So having the choice of following arguments from lots of experts with different opinions or just deciding "that's it" I prefer the easy way out. That's it - at least for now.
Thanks!
You don't learn by listening to the arguments, you learn by doing it. Then you know the right questions to ask, and you can see when the right answers are given.
-yes, building your own audio equipment be it loudspeakers, amps, etc.. is a hobby with a significant time component.. and frankly: for most people the real hobby is just listening to music.
If it were me in the same position (with not a great deal of knowledge or experience), I'd just go to several shops near me and listen to various speakers in my price range. "See" what you like (and don't, and why) - and make your own informed decision. ..and don't feel "rushed" about it (or pressured into purchasing anything): give yourself some time to just enjoy the "shopping around" and when doing that - try to combine it with other pleasurable activities (..like eating good food out).
If it were me in the same position (with not a great deal of knowledge or experience), I'd just go to several shops near me and listen to various speakers in my price range. "See" what you like (and don't, and why) - and make your own informed decision. ..and don't feel "rushed" about it (or pressured into purchasing anything): give yourself some time to just enjoy the "shopping around" and when doing that - try to combine it with other pleasurable activities (..like eating good food out).
What do you call people who work professionally in a field for decades?
I.e. Danny is one of those experts.
Professionals, that usually means they make a living out of it. Experts is a very general term and there are plenty of self proclaimed experts.
How do I, or anybody else, see if the "right" answers are given?
Are the right answers the answers which I wanted to hear?
Or are the right answer any answers from members in this forum who do this since many years?
That seems to be, at least for me, the main problem with audiophiles. There are no right answers. There are only lots of different opinions. And different groups of people who follow and support the opinion makers.
And then there is always that argument: If you can't hear it then your system/room/hearing is just not good enough. 😉
Whether you build your own DIY speakers or buy a finished commercial product, you still need to consider things like your room size, its acoustic characteristics, your listening position, loudness expected, and type of music you listen to. The need for that analysis doesn’t change regardless of who actually builds the speaker. It’s about your listening environment, not who assembles the pieces together into a finished speaker.
And with your goal of getting it right the first time and not wanting to go through several iterations, the need for this analysis is not just desirable. It’s mandatory. Otherwise you have a very good chance of failing to meet your goal.
So you are going to have to make a substantial investment of time if your goal is to get it perfect from the start. Listening in stores is great assuming that they are open and not closed due to the virus. But the first step is really figuring out what specific type and size of speakers you want to own given that there are so many options.
And before jumping into the JBL 708/P you need to make sure that you really like the sound of a waveguide type speaker. They sound very different from the more conventional designs. Some people like that sound, but some do not. So be careful about buying something just because someone else suggested it. Particularly if you’re going to spend almost $4,000 and want get it right from the beginning.
And with your goal of getting it right the first time and not wanting to go through several iterations, the need for this analysis is not just desirable. It’s mandatory. Otherwise you have a very good chance of failing to meet your goal.
So you are going to have to make a substantial investment of time if your goal is to get it perfect from the start. Listening in stores is great assuming that they are open and not closed due to the virus. But the first step is really figuring out what specific type and size of speakers you want to own given that there are so many options.
And before jumping into the JBL 708/P you need to make sure that you really like the sound of a waveguide type speaker. They sound very different from the more conventional designs. Some people like that sound, but some do not. So be careful about buying something just because someone else suggested it. Particularly if you’re going to spend almost $4,000 and want get it right from the beginning.
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Edgar, you'll discover this in time, and as you talk with people on different levels. You will be asking specific technical questions.
If you ask for peoples opinions on what speaker sounds best, then you will get many responses.
If you ask for peoples opinions on what speaker sounds best, then you will get many responses.
X is an unknown quantity, and spurt is a drip under pressure.scottjoplin said:
I listen to almost everything from Dub reggae to full orchestral, I find a speaker that can handle the full frequency spectrum suffices for both, and everything inbetween.
I went for a shop demo of the original B&W 601 in the mid 90s and couldn't believe how terrible they were. Even my mate who had no interest in hifi turned to me a gave me a "what a load of junk" look. So not at all surprised at Danny's findings there.
That's easy. The right answers are those that are always true. The ones that predict the outcome of an experiment/test which have been widely tested and found to always hold (so far). You were taught this at school even if you have developed a tendency to put it aside in favour of passively following marketing.
Depends on the importance of the answers. When it comes to luxury goods like home audio hardware believing in magical audiophile fairy stories may bring more pleasure than cold hard reality since the downside is pretty minor.
The typical knowledge expressed here is from enthusiasts not experts. Unlike the marketing on audiocircle pushing GR-Research high margin doodads posts pointing out what is going on will be made here and not removed. This occurs because snake oil merchants degrade a hobby which upsets many that feel part of the hobby.
Directly challenging faith usually binds the tribe more strongly in resisting an attack rather than leading to any questioning of the faith. That's sort of how faith works. The result is a lot of hot air being vented and no progress weakening the faith of followers. Some forums have opted to ban all discussion of GR-Research and Danny Ritchie but I don't think this is one? There is a fair chance though that a moderator will lock the thread if it degenerates into the common high volume of venting.
Yes there are if you look to genuine expertise and not the marketing of those with a position/product to support/sell.
There are certainly those and chatting about them in the pub and on forums is a fun and rewarding activity in moderation. But facts are of course different and more valuable.
DR and GR-Research are a rather extreme example. It is rarely as clear cut as this. Having been largely driven out of most audio forums a few years ago and retreating to audiocircle it looks as if the youtube marketing push may be reversing that trend. Interesting stuff to observe.
It's is certainly an argument put forward by snake oil merchants and believers in snake oil. It is of course an invalid argument in a scientific/evidence based sense because it is an untestable hypothesis and so will be largely ignored by the informed and/or intelligent.
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It's the same issue with many consumer products; for example, which is the 'best' car? Depends on your budget, family size, performance, space, comfort and many other variables. There's no 'right answer' for that either, just opinions, well -informed or otherwise. So you read, test drive, talk to friends, etc to try and come up with a short list of what's right for you.
One thing you don't do is take advice from the showroom sales person!
Geoff
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Obsolete in his product line, but otherwise just mediocre with several flaws/compromises. 20 years ago designing wasn't as easy as today, and awareness about baffle size and smoothness of directivity has increased.
Yes, huge advantage. If something sounds bad you'll know it's the recording not the equipment so you won't be running in circles.