Now then Carlos and other friends...
How does one optimise a pre-amp so that it imparts less grain and haze over the sound? (don't get me wrong, it's about the best sound I've heard, but it was much purer with no pre-amp... I just like the real dynamics and flexibility it gives)
Will improving op-amp bypass help?
Will increasing PSU capacitance help?
Will using schottky diodes help?
Will using silver wiring help?
Will using OPA627 instead of OPA2134 help?
😎
How does one optimise a pre-amp so that it imparts less grain and haze over the sound? (don't get me wrong, it's about the best sound I've heard, but it was much purer with no pre-amp... I just like the real dynamics and flexibility it gives)
Will improving op-amp bypass help?
Will increasing PSU capacitance help?
Will using schottky diodes help?
Will using silver wiring help?
Will using OPA627 instead of OPA2134 help?
😎
carlosfm said:
I had to pick you up on this because I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Why is it a problem that the wavelengths [faithfully?] reproduced are longer than the room's dimensions? It doesn't mean you can't hear them... it just means they can't be amplified in the same way by the room.
If there's learning to be done please teach me, but I didn't realise this was something one shouldn't do with bass.. I actually thought it was an advantage [as we can now use corner placement with no ill effects].
edit: my only problem with the sub in this room has been integration with the speakers [at the 50hz xover]. The speakers naturally roll-off from about 50, but the sub comes in 2nd order at 50hz, and it didn't seem to add up to even. An additional 2nd order x-over, at ~45hz, has fixed this now 🙂
SimontY said:
This is generalization.
The Epos ES14 (like Tor has) is an "old-style" big standmount with an 8" woofer.
It is bigger (in internal volume) than many floorstanders out there.
Floorstander doesn't automatically mean big.
And then there are interactions with the room and the floor that make a floorstander more demanding to position.
Some don't think about this...
SimontY said:
Precisely my point.
SimontY said:
It just doesn't sound natural.
It sounds boomy.
You may tame it down with placement, volume setting, etc, but it will not sound as good as in a large(r) place.
If there's no conditions to have some things, then don't.
I know a guy that has big speakers and two subs on a room about the same size as mine 18~20 m2.
Whatever you do to it, it doesn't sound good.
And these are the same type of "audiophiles" that spend silly amounts of money with gear to later find out the mistakes they runned into.
In the "learling process" they spend another silly amount of money with cables and room treatment to try to tame down things.
The problem is 90% of the times on the system, not the room.😎
SimontY said:
Simon, don't expect that an OPA2134 makes a good pre, because it doesn't.
Making a good preamp is one of the most demanding tasks.
The OPA627 will be better.
I have lost lots of my time (re)searching for a good pre and finally settled about 1.5 years ago on the AD815.
For how long I don't know.
But this gives me a performance that completely satisfies me, and I could put it against anything without feeling ashamed.
Possible combinations and implementations to make a pre are thousands, the hardest thing is not to muck up with the oh-so-sensitive signal.😉
But yes, the amp needs a pre.😎
Actually, my first diy speakers were large volume standmounts with 8" woofers... still needed a sub.
carlosfm said:
I find your comments interesting. I can't argue with your viewpoint, because that's all it is, and it's clearly founded upon experience. I will continue to listen 'inside the speaker' as I prefer this to having no bass at 30hz and below.
Hopefully I'll move out of my parents place quite soon, and I'll listen in a larger room if I possibly can. My room isn't live enough.
carlosfm said:
Rod Elliot clearly disagrees. He seems to love the OPA2134 as a pre-amp. But Rod Elliot also seems to do things by numbers and specifications etc. and less by a desire to hear the best. That's just my impression from reading some of his articles. I will install sockets and try different op-amps and leave my ears to be the ultimate judge, but the sound I have is very good, and quite acceptable for at least a few days.
I'm not an electronics expert, in fact I'm barely a beginner.... so forgive me when I have to ask - what is AD815? It doesn't look like an op-amp
It's also rather expensive. I'm really only looking for a 'drop-in' replacement ie. DIP op-amp for the time being.Thanks for your replies Carlos.
Carlos,
The AD815 looks a monstrious thing for a preamp output??
What do you like about it? 500mA output! Its like a small amp. Is it sonic superiour to the other smaller chips like AD8620, OPA627?
The AD815 looks a monstrious thing for a preamp output??
What do you like about it? 500mA output! Its like a small amp. Is it sonic superiour to the other smaller chips like AD8620, OPA627?
Lately I am testing and testing(UCD sound against MOSFET(Crescendo) and NAD C272) and tested my NAD C162 preamp against my DIY passive preamp, and guess what, they always use the phrase....a passive lacks bass...is absolutely not true. It has exactly the same bass properties but what the passive has extra.....enormous space around the speakers, the voice is soooo clear,clean. The active sounds OK but doing an A-B switchover, relay switching, the passive always wins. It has all the goodies of the C162 but + space, depth. And the voice has much more emotion on the passive. The UCD amps have this quality also.
Bass, impact and dynamics were the things that appeared out of the blue when I started using a pre-amp! I guess it all depends on what source you have.
Purity, liquidity, smoothness all went downhill using a pre-amp.
Overall I think I prefer it with the pre, and of course it will be upgraded 😀
Purity, liquidity, smoothness all went downhill using a pre-amp.
Overall I think I prefer it with the pre, and of course it will be upgraded 😀
Re: Re: Es14
Carlos, you are not alone! I`m very happy!! There must be something about the ultra simple crossover because the sound is so "natural" and the midrange are to die for.😀 😀
I can`t waith to finish my new lm3886 amp. But unfortunally I`m very busy at the moment, so it takes time.
Ok, maybe I should have written " I don`t need a sub with thees speakers." I don`t care about movie sound, and I don`t have much music with church organs in them, so I don`t need flat response down under 20Hz. In my room (not so big room) they have very impressive bass! 🙂 I`m happy!😀
I`m sorry I got this threat off track again.
Tor Martin
🙂
carlosfm said:
Carlos, you are not alone! I`m very happy!! There must be something about the ultra simple crossover because the sound is so "natural" and the midrange are to die for.😀 😀
I can`t waith to finish my new lm3886 amp. But unfortunally I`m very busy at the moment, so it takes time.
IanAS said:
Ok, maybe I should have written " I don`t need a sub with thees speakers." I don`t care about movie sound, and I don`t have much music with church organs in them, so I don`t need flat response down under 20Hz. In my room (not so big room) they have very impressive bass! 🙂 I`m happy!😀
I`m sorry I got this threat off track again.
Tor Martin
🙂
We'r all happy your happy Tor. no stress, OT talk is what makes the thread interesting you know 🙂
PKS, yes, sub amps benefit greatly from large amounts of capasitans.
..got some caps if you need them.. if i remember correctly, you have some opa627's? 😎
BTW: AnthonyAsh, what's I\V?
I'm hopefully getting some opa627's, better make them bp then?
-Marius
another edit:
What opamps from national is included in their soundplus series?
i know the 134 is, but what others?
PKS, yes, sub amps benefit greatly from large amounts of capasitans.
..got some caps if you need them.. if i remember correctly, you have some opa627's? 😎
BTW: AnthonyAsh, what's I\V?
I'm hopefully getting some opa627's, better make them bp then?
-Marius
another edit:
What opamps from national is included in their soundplus series?
i know the 134 is, but what others?
Bgt said:
Yes, it is superior.
It's not the 500ma output current that appeals me.
It's a video current-feedback op-amp, with very good specs.
Current-feedback op-amps, and specially those made for video are very good for audio.
They are not easy to use, though.
Years ago I've heard the Jeff Rowland Coherence pre and fell in love with it.
It uses the AD815.
SimontY said:
It depends on the amp you use.
If it has an input buffer it may work well with a passive pre, with short cables.
SimontY said:
Using that preamp.
There are many variables besides the op-amp used.
PSU bypass and layout can make a whole of a difference, and the OPA2134 is very picky about that.
It is a good op-amp, but there is better if you wanna stick with 8-leg voltage feedback thinggies.🙂
Try the LM6172 and the AD827.
SimontY said:
Me too.
But you also have problems with standspeakers if you don't use good stands.
In each type of speakers you always have to make same considerations...
In my opinion, you can have the best standspeakers or floorstanding in the market but if you don't have the knowledge to place them, you will not get the most of them!
carlosfm said:
Ah, well my LM3886 has no buffer, and there is baffle step correction, so it's perhaps no surprise it doesn't like being fed straight from the cdp.
Yes, I meant this particular pre, sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm stuck with the layout as I intend to leave it on the PCBs. The psu bypass can be improved easily enough, might even get onto that today...
I have LM6172 waiting to be tried 😎 AD827 will have to go on a shopping list 🙂
😎
That's right, I use the passive preamp with the UCD's.
The high input impedance makes it a perfect match.
And I just cannot part from the passive, the honesty of the sound is overwhelming when a good source is used.
And the dynamics are the same as the NAD C162/C272 combo.
Tuff choice.
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