I'm looking for a good inexpensive tweeter for a 3 way loudspeaker. I like the softdome tweeters.
I have found this Peerless and I like it because it is a wide angle and it should give me a good off axis response. I wanted to get some opinions before I go out and buy it. I'm useing HiVi M5N and M8N for the other speakers.
peerless 1" dome
Any thoughts?
I have found this Peerless and I like it because it is a wide angle and it should give me a good off axis response. I wanted to get some opinions before I go out and buy it. I'm useing HiVi M5N and M8N for the other speakers.
peerless 1" dome
Any thoughts?
I don't know that tweeter, but for a few bucks more, why not go for the Seas H1189 A.K.A. 27TDFC. It measures extremely well, according to www.zaphaudio.com and others. Zalytron has them for a few bucks less than Madisound. Just a happy frequent Zalytron customer.
Oh, and yes, I am using it and it sounds great.
Oh, and yes, I am using it and it sounds great.
guru_jeff said:
Hi-Vi K1 ought'ta do the job, it'll be happy to play with its siblings and it's better than the Peerless, yet costs less. In fact it's one of the best values on the DIY market.
Re: Re: Good inexpensive tweeter
I love soft dome tweeters but I have never tried a Peerless Tweeter.
The Hi-Vi K1 looks good and you can get it under $10 US! Thanks Willitwork, I think I may try it out too. It looks ideal for a 3-way system. See the suggested cut off point.
My all time favourite cheap dome tweeter is the Vifa D19TD0508 and it looks as though Solen may have a few left. I don't think it is in production any more. I purchased 4 extra units for future projects 'cause I love it so much.
It looks like BobEllis is recomending a very handsome unit. The 27TDFC looks very well made for a little extra cash. It's power handling is very high if that is important to you. I'd be interested if any one has listened to this tweeter?
Tweeters are usually the hardest part of a speaker to get right (for me) as I usually match the tweeter to the woofer after I have selected the woofer. When you get a poor match you know it. I have not built a 3-way speaker in many years but it may be easier than setting up a two way as you are only looking at the highest portion of the frequency response of the tweeter and ignoring the lower portion of it's response. But that too depends on the crossover frequencies you are using.
Cheers,
Shawn.
guru_jeff said:
I love soft dome tweeters but I have never tried a Peerless Tweeter.
Willitwork said:
The Hi-Vi K1 looks good and you can get it under $10 US! Thanks Willitwork, I think I may try it out too. It looks ideal for a 3-way system. See the suggested cut off point.
My all time favourite cheap dome tweeter is the Vifa D19TD0508 and it looks as though Solen may have a few left. I don't think it is in production any more. I purchased 4 extra units for future projects 'cause I love it so much.
It looks like BobEllis is recomending a very handsome unit. The 27TDFC looks very well made for a little extra cash. It's power handling is very high if that is important to you. I'd be interested if any one has listened to this tweeter?
Tweeters are usually the hardest part of a speaker to get right (for me) as I usually match the tweeter to the woofer after I have selected the woofer. When you get a poor match you know it. I have not built a 3-way speaker in many years but it may be easier than setting up a two way as you are only looking at the highest portion of the frequency response of the tweeter and ignoring the lower portion of it's response. But that too depends on the crossover frequencies you are using.
Cheers,
Shawn.
Re: Re: Re: Good inexpensive tweeter
If you order a pair of K1's you'll see why I'm convinced they are being sold way under cost, at least in North America. For some reason they are listed upwards to 59 euros on some European suppliers websites, and even at that price they're considered a bargain. The K1 is very similar to the Dynaudio D-28 both in looks and sonic character.
With regards to Vifa I spoke with someone at Solen a few weeks back and according to them Vifa drivers are being phased out by Tymphany, the company that now owns Scan Speak/Peerless/Vifa. Apparently Tymphany wants to carry only two lines of drivers: value-oriented Peerless that will be made in China and high-end Scan Speak made in Denmark. Apparently the Peerless V-line division, which is a sort of life-support for Vifa, is only temporary. Affordable Vifas are already getting scarce, the only drivers still being manufactured are the higher end Vifa Premium Line units.
TomWaits said:
If you order a pair of K1's you'll see why I'm convinced they are being sold way under cost, at least in North America. For some reason they are listed upwards to 59 euros on some European suppliers websites, and even at that price they're considered a bargain. The K1 is very similar to the Dynaudio D-28 both in looks and sonic character.
With regards to Vifa I spoke with someone at Solen a few weeks back and according to them Vifa drivers are being phased out by Tymphany, the company that now owns Scan Speak/Peerless/Vifa. Apparently Tymphany wants to carry only two lines of drivers: value-oriented Peerless that will be made in China and high-end Scan Speak made in Denmark. Apparently the Peerless V-line division, which is a sort of life-support for Vifa, is only temporary. Affordable Vifas are already getting scarce, the only drivers still being manufactured are the higher end Vifa Premium Line units.
HiVi K1
The Hi-Vi K1 looks good. I would be worried about the power handling capability. spec says 15Watts as compared to 130Watts of the peerless.
The Hi-Vi K1 looks good. I would be worried about the power handling capability. spec says 15Watts as compared to 130Watts of the peerless.
I have the K1's in my HT system. I find them very good value for the money. To test them, I ran some Supertramp at about 100 watts. They are crossed over at 3K with a 12 dB. I don't think you have to worry about power handling. Heck of a tweeter for the money.
The only disadvantage I see with them is that with such a large motor comes a large flange. This makes them unsuitable for multiple tweeter installations.
The only disadvantage I see with them is that with such a large motor comes a large flange. This makes them unsuitable for multiple tweeter installations.
Re: HiVi K1
We don't know how these specs are measured, so it's hard to compare. Peerless doesn't mention crossover slope and frequency range used for power handling rating, and apparently Hi-Vi doesn't publish power handling specs the same way most European and North American manufacturers do.
If you had seen the K1 you would agree that Hi-Vi obviously doesn't mean to say that it can only be used in speakers rated 15 watts or less, especially considering that even crappy portable blaster speakers can handle that nowadays. In fact the K1's have such a huge magnet and sturdiness to them that I wouldn't be surprised if Hi-Vi simply pumped 15 watts' worth of pink noise into them and seeing they survived, rated them accordingly. 😀
Now, if you throw 130 watts at the Peerless tweeter (or any tweeter) chances are pieces of dome material would be catapulted through the room with impressive velocity. Obviously this driver has been rated while operating well within its frequence range, and properly filtered.
guru_jeff said:
We don't know how these specs are measured, so it's hard to compare. Peerless doesn't mention crossover slope and frequency range used for power handling rating, and apparently Hi-Vi doesn't publish power handling specs the same way most European and North American manufacturers do.
If you had seen the K1 you would agree that Hi-Vi obviously doesn't mean to say that it can only be used in speakers rated 15 watts or less, especially considering that even crappy portable blaster speakers can handle that nowadays. In fact the K1's have such a huge magnet and sturdiness to them that I wouldn't be surprised if Hi-Vi simply pumped 15 watts' worth of pink noise into them and seeing they survived, rated them accordingly. 😀
Now, if you throw 130 watts at the Peerless tweeter (or any tweeter) chances are pieces of dome material would be catapulted through the room with impressive velocity. Obviously this driver has been rated while operating well within its frequence range, and properly filtered.
Some manufacturers rate their tweeter power handling in terms of actual dissipation, others like Seas (and probably Peerless) use the system rating with a high pass filter at a specified cutoff frequency and order, usually 2nd order.
For example, (since I have the data sheet handy) Seas rates the 27TBFC/G at 90W long term maximum power with a 3kHz 12 dB/octave filter in accordance with IEC 268-5. The IEC standard undoubtedly specifies the frequency content of the unfiltered signal.
Unless clearly spelled out how it is rated, a power rating is worthless. Even spelled out clearly, it doesn't mean much to me. I think distortion tests such as Zaph and other publish are much more meaningful. Just keep it operating in the low distortion zone.
For example, (since I have the data sheet handy) Seas rates the 27TBFC/G at 90W long term maximum power with a 3kHz 12 dB/octave filter in accordance with IEC 268-5. The IEC standard undoubtedly specifies the frequency content of the unfiltered signal.
Unless clearly spelled out how it is rated, a power rating is worthless. Even spelled out clearly, it doesn't mean much to me. I think distortion tests such as Zaph and other publish are much more meaningful. Just keep it operating in the low distortion zone.
With such music and such filtering about 17W is heading towards HF on Peaks Cal. If you have some resistive attenuation before the tweeter even less. No problem for any modern 1'' tweeter.
I was a fan, it had a very pleasing sound, very musical. I vaguely remember that it had a roll off for the top end, Anyone know if it was a 3db style from 4k or am I getting it confused with the other d19 06 ? I have used the tc 20 from vifa, it too has a very pleasing but different sound for the same price as the d19, & no hi frequency roll off. Personally I have used many vifa tweeters in the past and liked them all.
I bought a box of 80mm Peerless tweeters, originally I was disapointed compared to the vifa, ultimatly through playing with the crossover design and placement they produced very nice results.
Cameron Glendin said:
I have 30 or so Vifa tweeters lying around the house or installed in various designs that I have accumulated over the last 20 years. I don't really have a favourite model, all of them sound very good when properly matched and tuned within a sanely designed system.
I preferred Vifa over similarly priced Peerless because they didn't require as much tuning and tweaking in order to "get it right" when designing crossovers for them, and matching them with other drivers --including very high-end ones-- was usually done without much of a hassle. Not as easy to cross over as Scan Speak tweeter units mind you but the second cheapest Scan Speak (D2010) used to cost over twice as much as the most expensive Vifa... but the D2010 can be crossed over with a first-order slope, unlike the Vifa. But regrdless, at their price point Vifa had no equals with regards to value.
I speak in the past tense because the arrival on the DIY market of high quality Chinese made drivers from the likes of Hi-Vi has changed the rules, it is not possible to compete in a world where $20 buys you the same quality you used to pay $100 for. It's easy to see why Tymphany has opted to transfer the production of Peerless drivers to China --I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up being better built or at least having less discrepancies between individual drivers of a same series--, but I don't really undrestand why they wouldn't do the same with Vifa instead of trashing the division.
Cameron Glendin said:
Attached is the frequency response diagram for a LSK M6 speaker with a dayton 6.5in woofer and vifa d19td on the tweeter axis at 0, 30, 45 and 60 degrees if anyone is curious. (The peak around 15k is not from my ECM8000 mic i don't think, based on the measurements of other tweeters etc i have not had this peak like many of the ECM8000 mics do.
Attachments
As I said I like the sound of the D19td0508, even bought them in bulk at one stage. They are currently installed in my home system.
On the wescomponents web site the graph clearly shows the roll off. All other vifa tweeters to 20k and some beyond! This model to 10K.
I have seen the same graph in my big folder of a vifa catalogue.
Confused me to!!! I put it down as an old style aproach though I dont know.
On the wescomponents web site the graph clearly shows the roll off. All other vifa tweeters to 20k and some beyond! This model to 10K.
I have seen the same graph in my big folder of a vifa catalogue.
Confused me to!!! I put it down as an old style aproach though I dont know.
cameron i'll have to look at my cattledog later but could it be possible that the other tweeters are showing graphs to 20khz or something and the d19 is showing it to 40khz?
http://www.wagner.net.au/speakers/46-Vifa.pdf
No it clearly says 10K, I still love the tweeter but.
Graph goes to 40k
PS I do want to be proved wrong,
how come I prefere it?
surely I would hear it!!!!!
not notice it on a graph years later!
No it clearly says 10K, I still love the tweeter but.
Graph goes to 40k
PS I do want to be proved wrong,
how come I prefere it?
surely I would hear it!!!!!
not notice it on a graph years later!
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