Hi DIYA!
Well, the topic really says it all, I'm interested in seeing what successful and really nice sounding dome and Waveguide solutions that I might have missed, that I might use for future projects. So, what easily accessible solutions is out there?
I know about severel of the more known ones, and between those I think I would go with the Seas DXT, but there may very well be some that I haven't read about that might be a better sounding and measuring one?
I have read mostly positive comments about the DXT, but I haven't heard it and I do think I prefer a soft dome over a hard dome, not really sure on that as I have heard both sounding really nice.
Almost every single speaker I have own in my life have been using a waveguide, and it seems to really only have benefits in my limited knowledge.
The intended use would be as usual, and probably in a series of speakers I have been planning and thinking about. I'm doing this mostly because I want a deeper understanding in what makes a speaker sound like it does and what knowledge and decisions that lies behind creating a nice sounding speaker. These speakers are probably going to be a series of similar speakers from a small 2-way studio monitor thru a 3-way middle sized floorstander to a large 4-way, using the same tweeter and Waveguide, and probably the same midrange in the larger ones. All eventually passive ones, although a active solution at least for the smaller ones are possible thru the creation of the speakers.
So I am most probably looking for a quite variable tweeter and Waveguide combination, with a possible crossover between 2-3khz, and should ideally be able to mate well to both a 4" and a 6,5", if possible, with a lower/higher crossover.
I also want it to have somewhat small outer circumference, as I do intend to be trying both MT and MTM arrangement, and as such want to try and keep the C-C distance somewhat reasonable. So larger ones than 6,5"- 8" is probably the limit, I guess, as I don't plan on using anything larger than 6,5" as a compliment to the tweeter. I do think I am leaning on a 4 Ohm solution, as I do want to try MTM and MT solutions.
I preferably want a combination that is known for a nice sounding sound, and something that is easily accessible over here in Europe, preferably also in USA.
So guys, what out there that sound nice and is easily accessible? Anything new? What about the SB Acoustics new one? How does the Visaton solutions hold up?
It doesn't have to be a complete package as the DXT is, but it should as mentioned be easily accessible and hopefully so for some years ahead, although that is really hard to know in beforehand.
Thank you for your help in beforehand!
Well, the topic really says it all, I'm interested in seeing what successful and really nice sounding dome and Waveguide solutions that I might have missed, that I might use for future projects. So, what easily accessible solutions is out there?
I know about severel of the more known ones, and between those I think I would go with the Seas DXT, but there may very well be some that I haven't read about that might be a better sounding and measuring one?
I have read mostly positive comments about the DXT, but I haven't heard it and I do think I prefer a soft dome over a hard dome, not really sure on that as I have heard both sounding really nice.
Almost every single speaker I have own in my life have been using a waveguide, and it seems to really only have benefits in my limited knowledge.
The intended use would be as usual, and probably in a series of speakers I have been planning and thinking about. I'm doing this mostly because I want a deeper understanding in what makes a speaker sound like it does and what knowledge and decisions that lies behind creating a nice sounding speaker. These speakers are probably going to be a series of similar speakers from a small 2-way studio monitor thru a 3-way middle sized floorstander to a large 4-way, using the same tweeter and Waveguide, and probably the same midrange in the larger ones. All eventually passive ones, although a active solution at least for the smaller ones are possible thru the creation of the speakers.
So I am most probably looking for a quite variable tweeter and Waveguide combination, with a possible crossover between 2-3khz, and should ideally be able to mate well to both a 4" and a 6,5", if possible, with a lower/higher crossover.
I also want it to have somewhat small outer circumference, as I do intend to be trying both MT and MTM arrangement, and as such want to try and keep the C-C distance somewhat reasonable. So larger ones than 6,5"- 8" is probably the limit, I guess, as I don't plan on using anything larger than 6,5" as a compliment to the tweeter. I do think I am leaning on a 4 Ohm solution, as I do want to try MTM and MT solutions.
I preferably want a combination that is known for a nice sounding sound, and something that is easily accessible over here in Europe, preferably also in USA.
So guys, what out there that sound nice and is easily accessible? Anything new? What about the SB Acoustics new one? How does the Visaton solutions hold up?
It doesn't have to be a complete package as the DXT is, but it should as mentioned be easily accessible and hopefully so for some years ahead, although that is really hard to know in beforehand.
Thank you for your help in beforehand!
Try looking at this site, lots of combinations:
Heissmann-Acoustics | Tweeter with Waveguide | reviews
Heissmann-Acoustics | Tweeter with Waveguide | reviews
Hmm, that was a new part of that site I have missed completely, interesting.
Anybody know any more sites that has several solutions tested?
Does anyone know why there is a majority of soft domes used in waveguides?
As I am (still) working on completing my Elsinores, I first thought of using the HDS and that Wg in other builds, but the waveguides aren't that cheap, and only available from Joe, so I have been looking for something of a similar performance level but more easily available. I also want to try some other tweeters, and more and more a hard dome Wg solution. I am still kind of inclined to use the DXT, it seems to be a very well regarded solution that is widely used also in commercial speakers.
I don't get why there arent more waveguides on the market from the large speaker manufacturers.. They have the technology and experience to make this happen at the highest level, but there are few of them on the market. Likewise with small face plate tweeters, the benefits are obvious.
Maybe I'm missing something?
Anybody know any more sites that has several solutions tested?
Does anyone know why there is a majority of soft domes used in waveguides?
As I am (still) working on completing my Elsinores, I first thought of using the HDS and that Wg in other builds, but the waveguides aren't that cheap, and only available from Joe, so I have been looking for something of a similar performance level but more easily available. I also want to try some other tweeters, and more and more a hard dome Wg solution. I am still kind of inclined to use the DXT, it seems to be a very well regarded solution that is widely used also in commercial speakers.
I don't get why there arent more waveguides on the market from the large speaker manufacturers.. They have the technology and experience to make this happen at the highest level, but there are few of them on the market. Likewise with small face plate tweeters, the benefits are obvious.
Maybe I'm missing something?
The XT25TG-30 and WG-300 combination from the Heissmann site seems like a really nice and fairly economic solution.. Joe used to use the XT25 in the elsinore's but changed it for the HDS as the HDS were superior in some regards but not all if I remember correctly.
From what I understand, the DXT and XT25 seems to be the best solutions on the Heissman site, right? The negative with the XT+WG300 is the size of the waveguide, far larger than the DXT. I want a versatile solution that lets me try different configurations and distances between drivers, so a small faceplate is beneficial for me.
I need a smaller near/mid field monitor, and are probably going to build something like that first, something along the lines of a 2,5-way TMM speaker with ~ 130mm midwoofers. There are plenty of options out there, and I'm leaning towards either a HDS driver or one of the SB12NRX drivers.
Don't know which one of either the HDS or SB drivers to choose thou. Not yet.
From what I understand, the DXT and XT25 seems to be the best solutions on the Heissman site, right? The negative with the XT+WG300 is the size of the waveguide, far larger than the DXT. I want a versatile solution that lets me try different configurations and distances between drivers, so a small faceplate is beneficial for me.
I need a smaller near/mid field monitor, and are probably going to build something like that first, something along the lines of a 2,5-way TMM speaker with ~ 130mm midwoofers. There are plenty of options out there, and I'm leaning towards either a HDS driver or one of the SB12NRX drivers.
Don't know which one of either the HDS or SB drivers to choose thou. Not yet.
Waveguides have been used for 40 years with "normal" tweeters. the diameter of waveguide determines how low boost wiil happen. Basic rule is that waveguide width should match the woofer it is paired with. Ellipic shape helps to get interdriver distance smaller. You can also cut the lower edge fo the waveguide.
Google is your friend! Try also "waveguide hochtöner"
Google is your friend! Try also "waveguide hochtöner"
Terve, Juhazi.
So I am googling like crazy for more nice measuring and sounding combinations, and do come across Dave Pellegrene WG's mentioned quite often, but all the links go to the site pellegreneacoustics.com that's dead, are those WG's available still and from some other site?
If so, does anyone know what site? Would like to take a closer look at the combinations he has tried, and possibly try one of them out, as I find his WG's, at least what I've found on other sites, suitably nice looking and are in suitable size for the baffle width I have in mind.
So I am googling like crazy for more nice measuring and sounding combinations, and do come across Dave Pellegrene WG's mentioned quite often, but all the links go to the site pellegreneacoustics.com that's dead, are those WG's available still and from some other site?
If so, does anyone know what site? Would like to take a closer look at the combinations he has tried, and possibly try one of them out, as I find his WG's, at least what I've found on other sites, suitably nice looking and are in suitable size for the baffle width I have in mind.
Thank you pblossom, I'm going to try and get hold of Dave either there or here.
When I already have this thread, are there anyone here that have heard the XT25 mated to the WG-300 waveguide?
The DXT is a 8 ohm driver, and I think I'll need a 4 ohm and from what I've gathered this far, the XT/WG-300 solution measures best, and the XT also seems to get very good reviews from it's actual performance, so maybe that will be my final solution.
It is also a cheap solution.
When I already have this thread, are there anyone here that have heard the XT25 mated to the WG-300 waveguide?
The DXT is a 8 ohm driver, and I think I'll need a 4 ohm and from what I've gathered this far, the XT/WG-300 solution measures best, and the XT also seems to get very good reviews from it's actual performance, so maybe that will be my final solution.
It is also a cheap solution.
MIJK, see various tweeter+WG measurements on my website:
WG mereni :: Pkaudio
I used XT25+WG300 in one of my project years ago, and I remember it being much better than bare tweeter on the baffle.
There is also Satori Br dome plus their WG mentioned on Madisound, but no info on availability yet.
WG mereni :: Pkaudio
I used XT25+WG300 in one of my project years ago, and I remember it being much better than bare tweeter on the baffle.
There is also Satori Br dome plus their WG mentioned on Madisound, but no info on availability yet.
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Dave's test results for his waveguides can be found HERE.. I think Dave has gotten out of the DIY audio field as I haven't seen anything from him in several years.
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emperkins,
Thanks for the link, haven't seen that before, very interesting. Seems like XT25 is the driver most suited to waveguiding, but I haven't seen it in the Visaton 148 Waveguide yet. I think A bit too much to remember right now.
I think the WG-300 are a bit too big for me, as it would be mated to 4-5,5" driver/s. I've seen that it is possible to cut a bit of it to get the circumference down a bit, but if the XT25 works great in the Visaton 148 it would be more appropriate for what I am thinking of doing. Even 148mm is a bit large, but would work better than 170mm.
It is only a 2 cm difference between them, so not very much. If I go with using a HDS as midwoofer, I could cut the WG to match the HDS frame, for a closer C-C distance and more uniform looks.
Pida, thank you very much for the link and measurements, really nice!
Oh, I have missed that SB are releasing a Satori WG.. I've only seen the SB26 WG driver, but it seems to be very new and I can't find any independent measurements of it online. Looks to do the job, but would like to see measurements of it before buying it. It has a very small waveguide thou, and it doesn't seem to do very much at all, the DXT seems to be a better solution then, but it isn't 4 Ohm.. I wish Seas would have done 4 Ohm versions of their drivers as almost all other manufacturers does.
The reason for wanting a 4 Ohm solution is that I need it to be versatile when it comes to matching with other drivers in MTM/WWMT etc combinations and 16 ohm drivers isn't easy to find. The first speaker I am working on is a small monitor style speaker for near/misfiled listening.
I have a question about that, when using a waveguide on speaker for near field listening, does it affect the distance needed from the speaker to get a good integration and point source like sound?
If it affects it, in which way? Is a longer distance needed from the speaker or the other way around?
Thanks y'all and keep the comments coming!
Thanks for the link, haven't seen that before, very interesting. Seems like XT25 is the driver most suited to waveguiding, but I haven't seen it in the Visaton 148 Waveguide yet. I think
A bit too much to remember right now.I think the WG-300 are a bit too big for me, as it would be mated to 4-5,5" driver/s. I've seen that it is possible to cut a bit of it to get the circumference down a bit, but if the XT25 works great in the Visaton 148 it would be more appropriate for what I am thinking of doing. Even 148mm is a bit large, but would work better than 170mm.
It is only a 2 cm difference between them, so not very much. If I go with using a HDS as midwoofer, I could cut the WG to match the HDS frame, for a closer C-C distance and more uniform looks.
Pida, thank you very much for the link and measurements, really nice!
Oh, I have missed that SB are releasing a Satori WG.. I've only seen the SB26 WG driver, but it seems to be very new and I can't find any independent measurements of it online. Looks to do the job, but would like to see measurements of it before buying it. It has a very small waveguide thou, and it doesn't seem to do very much at all, the DXT seems to be a better solution then, but it isn't 4 Ohm.. I wish Seas would have done 4 Ohm versions of their drivers as almost all other manufacturers does.
The reason for wanting a 4 Ohm solution is that I need it to be versatile when it comes to matching with other drivers in MTM/WWMT etc combinations and 16 ohm drivers isn't easy to find. The first speaker I am working on is a small monitor style speaker for near/misfiled listening.
I have a question about that, when using a waveguide on speaker for near field listening, does it affect the distance needed from the speaker to get a good integration and point source like sound?
If it affects it, in which way? Is a longer distance needed from the speaker or the other way around?
Thanks y'all and keep the comments coming!
I'm surprised that no one mentioned Augerpro and his excellent work.
Open source Waveguides for CNC & 3D printing!
Open source Waveguides for CNC & 3D printing!
I got two of the W148R, the visaton waveguides since they are available in thein the USA while the W300 is not. I am torn between the XT25BG60-04 and the RST28F-4. Some people have commented that the xt25 is a little bit noisy below 2k, but other people have said that with the wavguide the distortion improves and xo goes down. The RST28F-4 seems to be universally liked. Gonir used it in his revelation wg monitor
it seems that both drivers can use simple crossovers
it seems that both drivers can use simple crossovers
I used that combination to 'upgrade' Troels C17 speakers, and I like the combination.
Troels C17 modifications
Tweeter suggestions
Vifa bc25 there are two versions to choose from. Paired with 5" Great result.
Wavecor waveguide tweeter, maybe even The tiny one?
Dxt, really Nice and touch protected. Paired it with an 8" with Great success
avoid Beyma T2030 lacking in sq and high distorsion.
Lycka till!
Vifa bc25 there are two versions to choose from. Paired with 5" Great result.
Wavecor waveguide tweeter, maybe even The tiny one?
Dxt, really Nice and touch protected. Paired it with an 8" with Great success
avoid Beyma T2030 lacking in sq and high distorsion.
Lycka till!
Don't confuse the RST28-F with the original (now NLA) RS28-F. I would say the original RS28F and RS28A were universally liked. The RST replacements are cheaper and IMO don't have the performance of the originals. YMMV.
I believe Gornir's Revelation Two – M4 WG uses the ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500 tweeter.
ernperkins said
"Originally Posted by Frabor View Post
The RST28F-4 seems to be universally liked. Gonir used it in his revelation wg monitor
Don't confuse the RST28-F with the original (now NLA) RS28-F. I would say the original RS28F and RS28A were universally liked. The RST replacements are cheaper and IMO don't have the performance of the originals. YMMV.
I believe Gornir's Revelation Two – M4 WG uses the ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500 tweeter."
my wrong. somehow, late at night, i got confused with multiple threads.
rs28f with a w300g
rst28f with a visaton w148r
so for the time the RST28-F has been eliminated of my list. What about the sb19 and the seas 27TDFC
"Originally Posted by Frabor View Post
The RST28F-4 seems to be universally liked. Gonir used it in his revelation wg monitor
Don't confuse the RST28-F with the original (now NLA) RS28-F. I would say the original RS28F and RS28A were universally liked. The RST replacements are cheaper and IMO don't have the performance of the originals. YMMV.
I believe Gornir's Revelation Two – M4 WG uses the ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500 tweeter."
my wrong. somehow, late at night, i got confused with multiple threads.
rs28f with a w300g
rst28f with a visaton w148r
so for the time the RST28-F has been eliminated of my list. What about the sb19 and the seas 27TDFC
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