Hey everybody, I've been browsing some threads but haven't yet come across the exact info that I seek...
I'm a fairly competent tube amp technician, but hands-on mostly and definitely NOT an engineer. I'm looking to expand my horizons into solid-state theory and operation, and also have a need for a 400w(or so) bass amp to drive my current bass guitar gig rig. I need something large and brutish to drive an 18" Eminence woofer, while I will be using a 50 or 100w tube amp to drive one or two 15" full range drivers for mids and highs. My PAS ER1580C just wasn't pushing enough air below 60hz or so, so I'm re-arranging my setup a bit.
I'm curious what some of you solid-state wizard-types would recommend as a good kit for a noob to build a power amp capable of pushing 300w into 8 ohms, at 40hz or below with minimal THD. I may occasionally want to run the amp at 4 ohms, depending on where I'm playing and the desired speaker configuration. I'm basically looking for a power module only, as I have a couple different tube preamps that I've built that I am rather happy with.
Just hoping to get some thoughts, guidance, and some recommendations. I believe a kit would be a good place for me to start, but I am also an incorrigible tinkerer. Something versatile that would take well to future modifications would be the most desirable. I rather like the GK sound for bass(mostly bipolar, correct?), as compared to Ampeg ss gear(which I believe is mostly MOSFET, correct me if I'm wrong.) I'm open to either type though, just want something that's relatively simple and inexpensive to get started.
I'm a fairly competent tube amp technician, but hands-on mostly and definitely NOT an engineer. I'm looking to expand my horizons into solid-state theory and operation, and also have a need for a 400w(or so) bass amp to drive my current bass guitar gig rig. I need something large and brutish to drive an 18" Eminence woofer, while I will be using a 50 or 100w tube amp to drive one or two 15" full range drivers for mids and highs. My PAS ER1580C just wasn't pushing enough air below 60hz or so, so I'm re-arranging my setup a bit.
I'm curious what some of you solid-state wizard-types would recommend as a good kit for a noob to build a power amp capable of pushing 300w into 8 ohms, at 40hz or below with minimal THD. I may occasionally want to run the amp at 4 ohms, depending on where I'm playing and the desired speaker configuration. I'm basically looking for a power module only, as I have a couple different tube preamps that I've built that I am rather happy with.
Just hoping to get some thoughts, guidance, and some recommendations. I believe a kit would be a good place for me to start, but I am also an incorrigible tinkerer. Something versatile that would take well to future modifications would be the most desirable. I rather like the GK sound for bass(mostly bipolar, correct?), as compared to Ampeg ss gear(which I believe is mostly MOSFET, correct me if I'm wrong.) I'm open to either type though, just want something that's relatively simple and inexpensive to get started.
You want a "bass guitar amp"?
or
Do you want a "power amp"?
If ur a competent tech, then for the former, this might not be the ideal forum - I have no clue.
For the latter, I still have no good suggestions, since for this sort of service you want something that is more or less bulletproof. I'd sooner buy a commercial amp than try to build something that is heavy with a linear power supply and A/B outputs - you'd probably want some sort of protection circuitry.
The newer class D amps make that power in their sleep and are dirt cheap, lightweight. Old school (as you likely know) Crown MacroTech makes a serious bass amp, but weighs quite a bit. The MA1200 makes that power in stereo (iirc) and the MA600 does it in bridged.
Feel free to ignore my thinking on this...
or
Do you want a "power amp"?
If ur a competent tech, then for the former, this might not be the ideal forum - I have no clue.
For the latter, I still have no good suggestions, since for this sort of service you want something that is more or less bulletproof. I'd sooner buy a commercial amp than try to build something that is heavy with a linear power supply and A/B outputs - you'd probably want some sort of protection circuitry.
The newer class D amps make that power in their sleep and are dirt cheap, lightweight. Old school (as you likely know) Crown MacroTech makes a serious bass amp, but weighs quite a bit. The MA1200 makes that power in stereo (iirc) and the MA600 does it in bridged.
Feel free to ignore my thinking on this...
Check out some Apexaudio's designs,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/164093-100w-ultimate-fidelity-amplifier.html#post2135804
Some of these design have been expanded to higher power ranges.
Or maybe this one I just found,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...audio-amplifier-made-romania.html#post2502192
This is the latest revision,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vend...audio-amplifier-made-romania.html#post3969712
jer 🙂
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/164093-100w-ultimate-fidelity-amplifier.html#post2135804
Some of these design have been expanded to higher power ranges.
Or maybe this one I just found,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...audio-amplifier-made-romania.html#post2502192
This is the latest revision,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vend...audio-amplifier-made-romania.html#post3969712
jer 🙂
I'd recommend that for starters you concentrate on doing the preamp section and crossover as a DIY build and either use a separate pro audio power amp or a well proven pre-built Class D power amp module such as one of the Hypex ones.
luck,
--Charlie
luck,
--Charlie
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The OP has already stated~ "I'm basically looking for a power module only, as I have a couple different tube preamps that I've built that I am rather happy with."
Just so no one gets confused!!! 😉
FWIW
jer 🙂
Just so no one gets confused!!! 😉
FWIW
jer 🙂
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I didn't see things stated quite that way on first read, but I suspect you're correct anyway...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Thanks for all the responses. Let me see if I can clarify a bit more:
Looking for a power amp, basically. Something that is versatile enough to handle different input sources without coloring the tone too much. And bullet-proof is definitely a must. I looked at the GX400 but I'm not solid-state literate enough to determine if it has the requisite protection circuitry built in. I tend to drive my equipment pretty hard, and 240w into 8 ohms would be on the low end of what I'm looking for. I would basically be running it wide open for extended periods of time, and I would be concerned for it's health and welfare at that point.
I'm pretty good with tube audio, but have never bothered to learn much about solid-state. The only way I can learn it is to do it myself, so that's why I want to build my own amp this time around.
Now, I've never been a big fan of Class D, something about it just doesn't sound quite the same to me. I have ready access to suitable iron, in fact I have my eyes on a pair of tx that came from an old Crown power amp, roughly 600w or so. I figure those should do just fine. I have no problem building a tube amp with 60 lbs of iron in it, so that's not really an issue here.
If I find a suitable power amp for a good price in the used market, or if I can trade for one I may just do that. I've burned up a few QSC RMX's in my day, so definitely would want something a little more sturdy than those. As of now, the plan is still DIY because it's just more fun that way.
I'll have a look at some of those other designs, and if someone could enlighten me about the GX400 a bit more I would certainly appreciate that. Please remember: I know tube stuff, not solid-state. When you explain the technical stuff please assume that you are talking to a child. I'll pick it up, but I'm basically starting from scratch when it comes solid-state audio. That's why I'm here 🙂
Looking for a power amp, basically. Something that is versatile enough to handle different input sources without coloring the tone too much. And bullet-proof is definitely a must. I looked at the GX400 but I'm not solid-state literate enough to determine if it has the requisite protection circuitry built in. I tend to drive my equipment pretty hard, and 240w into 8 ohms would be on the low end of what I'm looking for. I would basically be running it wide open for extended periods of time, and I would be concerned for it's health and welfare at that point.
I'm pretty good with tube audio, but have never bothered to learn much about solid-state. The only way I can learn it is to do it myself, so that's why I want to build my own amp this time around.
Now, I've never been a big fan of Class D, something about it just doesn't sound quite the same to me. I have ready access to suitable iron, in fact I have my eyes on a pair of tx that came from an old Crown power amp, roughly 600w or so. I figure those should do just fine. I have no problem building a tube amp with 60 lbs of iron in it, so that's not really an issue here.
If I find a suitable power amp for a good price in the used market, or if I can trade for one I may just do that. I've burned up a few QSC RMX's in my day, so definitely would want something a little more sturdy than those. As of now, the plan is still DIY because it's just more fun that way.
I'll have a look at some of those other designs, and if someone could enlighten me about the GX400 a bit more I would certainly appreciate that. Please remember: I know tube stuff, not solid-state. When you explain the technical stuff please assume that you are talking to a child. I'll pick it up, but I'm basically starting from scratch when it comes solid-state audio. That's why I'm here 🙂
I think that it looks like a fairly stout design, if there is any question it is possible that you could always increase the number of output devices.
I just found this design and boards are just now being shipped, so there doesn't seem to be anyone whom has built and tested one yet except for the designer in this forum.
He has another forum on it as well but it is in another language (Romania?).
Ultimele produse/proiecte Tehnium Azi - Comunitatea Tehnium Azi
It does have current limiting built in to it in the forms of Q10 & Q14 on both the FET and the BJT versions.
The output devices are good heavy duty pieces for both versions as well and are both used in many of the HQ amplifier designs found here in these threads.
I am not speaking as for the designer as I am not associated with him, and, It is only from my own observations of the schematic that he has posted.
I will do some more searching of the spec's to see what I can find and you could also contact the designer via PM through DIYaudio as well for anymore questions that you may have.
If you have gone through a few QSC then there is probably a reason for it, But I do know what you mean as I am pretty hard on my amplifiers as well.
Most likely a cooling issue as I think that the QSC's I have used are a bit weak in this area
I got lucky and picked up my amps at pawn shops for really cheap!!
I have an old BGW 250 that has a channel that went bad, and, a Crown DC300a and an Ashley FTX2000 that still works great!!
I was running a 1.6 ohm load on those last two for a long time and they are still working today!! 😉
I am very interested in seeing this what this new design can do!!
All of the parts seem to be very common parts and are very available!
FWIW
jer 🙂
I just found this design and boards are just now being shipped, so there doesn't seem to be anyone whom has built and tested one yet except for the designer in this forum.
He has another forum on it as well but it is in another language (Romania?).
Ultimele produse/proiecte Tehnium Azi - Comunitatea Tehnium Azi
It does have current limiting built in to it in the forms of Q10 & Q14 on both the FET and the BJT versions.
The output devices are good heavy duty pieces for both versions as well and are both used in many of the HQ amplifier designs found here in these threads.
I am not speaking as for the designer as I am not associated with him, and, It is only from my own observations of the schematic that he has posted.
I will do some more searching of the spec's to see what I can find and you could also contact the designer via PM through DIYaudio as well for anymore questions that you may have.
If you have gone through a few QSC then there is probably a reason for it, But I do know what you mean as I am pretty hard on my amplifiers as well.
Most likely a cooling issue as I think that the QSC's I have used are a bit weak in this area
I got lucky and picked up my amps at pawn shops for really cheap!!
I have an old BGW 250 that has a channel that went bad, and, a Crown DC300a and an Ashley FTX2000 that still works great!!
I was running a 1.6 ohm load on those last two for a long time and they are still working today!! 😉
I am very interested in seeing this what this new design can do!!
All of the parts seem to be very common parts and are very available!
FWIW
jer 🙂
Parts availability is a huge plus. It also seems that some other forum members are building them, so ready support should be available. I'll send him a message.
Cooling is certainly a major concern. I had already envisioned a larger than average heatsink and an overkill fan. Is relay protection on the output a good safety feature? I've found these parts to have a high failure rate on some older bass and pro gear that I've serviced. I've replaced a couple of them in Ampeg B2R's specifically. Is there a better way to accomplish fail-safe protection? Output fuses?
Much of the discussion here is admittedly quite a bit over my head. Is there a good source to improve my technical understanding of basic solid-state theory and operation? Something like 'DIY Transistor Audio for Dummies?' 😛
I definitely appreciate the help!
Cooling is certainly a major concern. I had already envisioned a larger than average heatsink and an overkill fan. Is relay protection on the output a good safety feature? I've found these parts to have a high failure rate on some older bass and pro gear that I've serviced. I've replaced a couple of them in Ampeg B2R's specifically. Is there a better way to accomplish fail-safe protection? Output fuses?
Much of the discussion here is admittedly quite a bit over my head. Is there a good source to improve my technical understanding of basic solid-state theory and operation? Something like 'DIY Transistor Audio for Dummies?' 😛
I definitely appreciate the help!
I forsee some issues...
"running them pretty hard"
What does that mean?
How does that relate to the power handling of the speaker(s)?
How many speakers?
Will you have any means to prevent the power amp from clipping on peaks, or worse - all the time?
Will you need to lug this to gigs?
"running them pretty hard"
What does that mean?
How does that relate to the power handling of the speaker(s)?
How many speakers?
Will you have any means to prevent the power amp from clipping on peaks, or worse - all the time?
Will you need to lug this to gigs?
By 'running them pretty hard' I mean that my drummer plays very loud. In order to keep up with my drummer in terms of stage volume I typically need a lot of power to hit the low notes. I also have a really aggressive style(my band ranges well into the hardcore/punk region at times.)
I've got an Eminence 18" rated at 300w 8r operation in a tuned ported cab that should be delivering a fairly flat response down into the 40hz range. The simulation I ran for box and port size with the speaker data indicated a 3db roll-off below 45-46 hz. I've used folded horn enclosures in the past but found them to be a bit honky in the mids, and the dispersion too narrow for playing bass guitar in a small to medium club. I wouldn't be able to hear the thing on stage standing next to it, but it would be tearing everybody's face off about 10-15 yards out into the audience. That was fun in it's own right, but my approach to music has mellowed some with age. The Eminence is rated at 97db/w efficiency, and I plan to keep the direct firing enclosure to get the appropriate stage volume that I need and the tone that I like. A 100w tube amp doesn't quite deliver the juice I need to drive the thing at low low frequencies. Low E on a bass is 40hz basically, and I want something that will maintain it's integrity at full power down to 40hz and below.
What I really want to do is build or get a big solid-state amp to drive the 18, and use a home-made 50 or 100w tube amp(I have several to choose from) to drive one or two 15" speakers to get the mids and highs. I've got a PAS ER1580C that I am in love with in a sealed box, and an Eminence beta 15 rated to 200w or so in a ported box(that may just get sealed here in a day or two.)
I would like something with plenty of built in protection. My QSC's would always die when running bridged, one hard clip and they were toast. Bass guitar has a lot of dynamic range to it, and it's hard to find an amp with the headroom to handle the big peaks. For a preamp, I usually just use a simple tube pre with a couple 12au7 gain stages with interstage gain control. I also tend to use a cathode-follower buffered output with a master volume on it, basically so I can control the amount of distortion that I get and overall volume level. With tube audio simpler is always better, though I know that isn't necessarily the case with transistor audio. What would be the best way to accomplish clip prevention/protection?
As far as lugging it to gigs, yes I will. I already lug large, heavy, inconvenient gear to gigs though so this isn't a huge concern. I am prepared to suffer for my art form..
I've got an Eminence 18" rated at 300w 8r operation in a tuned ported cab that should be delivering a fairly flat response down into the 40hz range. The simulation I ran for box and port size with the speaker data indicated a 3db roll-off below 45-46 hz. I've used folded horn enclosures in the past but found them to be a bit honky in the mids, and the dispersion too narrow for playing bass guitar in a small to medium club. I wouldn't be able to hear the thing on stage standing next to it, but it would be tearing everybody's face off about 10-15 yards out into the audience. That was fun in it's own right, but my approach to music has mellowed some with age. The Eminence is rated at 97db/w efficiency, and I plan to keep the direct firing enclosure to get the appropriate stage volume that I need and the tone that I like. A 100w tube amp doesn't quite deliver the juice I need to drive the thing at low low frequencies. Low E on a bass is 40hz basically, and I want something that will maintain it's integrity at full power down to 40hz and below.
What I really want to do is build or get a big solid-state amp to drive the 18, and use a home-made 50 or 100w tube amp(I have several to choose from) to drive one or two 15" speakers to get the mids and highs. I've got a PAS ER1580C that I am in love with in a sealed box, and an Eminence beta 15 rated to 200w or so in a ported box(that may just get sealed here in a day or two.)
I would like something with plenty of built in protection. My QSC's would always die when running bridged, one hard clip and they were toast. Bass guitar has a lot of dynamic range to it, and it's hard to find an amp with the headroom to handle the big peaks. For a preamp, I usually just use a simple tube pre with a couple 12au7 gain stages with interstage gain control. I also tend to use a cathode-follower buffered output with a master volume on it, basically so I can control the amount of distortion that I get and overall volume level. With tube audio simpler is always better, though I know that isn't necessarily the case with transistor audio. What would be the best way to accomplish clip prevention/protection?
As far as lugging it to gigs, yes I will. I already lug large, heavy, inconvenient gear to gigs though so this isn't a huge concern. I am prepared to suffer for my art form..
Simple and inexpensive and yet powerful and bulletproof, reminds me of a filter I had to design, lots of attenuation from 100khz up to 20GHz, ok if it does not work after a lightning strike but don't let the energy through, it does need to pass through 1/2W of signal, make it small and light, and if I can under $20 each. How does the saying go? “You can have it fast, cheap, or good – pick any two.”
Also you do not want it to color the sound, going through a 18" that is probably only reproducing under 120Hz. I am not sure how much color there is down there. If it were me I would pick up one of the 800W Class D bass amps and if I wanted to learn about analog SS amps build a 20 or 40W one and mess around with the parts. Mind you, since those amps came out there is a whole bunch of Peavey 400W linear amps around looking for a job.
But seriously, forget about having a protective circuitry kicking in because of some clipping or anything short of, well a short on the output. Protective circuitry color the sound. Get buckets full of TO-3 case style devices on the output, massive heatsinks and a good fan. Want to do some welding anyone? Low distortion? Who give a hoot. you are masking it with the signal from the 15`s. All you need is a dumb no frills amp that is not pretending to be anything else but brute force. You are only covering at most two octaves. Well, maybe some protective circuitry to protect the speaker in the event of the amp blowing up, short of that just lots of dumb power.
Thanks Printer2, there is much wisdom in what you say. I'm still a bit reluctant to go with class D because I have come across much of it that has broken down. The Ampeg Portabass series seems to have its share of issues, and I haven't come across any widely available class D gear that I would describe in any way as 'Good.' I may just decide to get one of the Chinese class D modules and build a good power supply for it(no switch mode supplies in my gear, thanks.)
The 18 is rated up to 2.5khz, but I fear it would beam terribly much above the range you described. I guess my hope was to find something that would be truly versatile enough to use for full-range if I wanted to get a second one and use it later for PA duty. Maybe my hopes are just too high.
So I guess class D output module for now, and with the money I save I can look around for a good deal on a Crown power amp. It seems like there's plenty of them sitting around in churches and such, they seem to be available in the used market with some frequency. So, as someone noted above, I should devote my time to crossover design for now. Do you know of any good suppliers for class D power modules? Something a little higher up in the quality range?
The 18 is rated up to 2.5khz, but I fear it would beam terribly much above the range you described. I guess my hope was to find something that would be truly versatile enough to use for full-range if I wanted to get a second one and use it later for PA duty. Maybe my hopes are just too high.
So I guess class D output module for now, and with the money I save I can look around for a good deal on a Crown power amp. It seems like there's plenty of them sitting around in churches and such, they seem to be available in the used market with some frequency. So, as someone noted above, I should devote my time to crossover design for now. Do you know of any good suppliers for class D power modules? Something a little higher up in the quality range?
Don't know much on the Class D other than the bass community has gone over to it in a big way. Check to see what people are saying on talkbass.com. I heard they are reasonably priced for the performance, not my cup of tea so anything more would just be me guessing. Funny thing about the Chinese stuff, some does not live up to their specs. Look into it before you jump.
As far as linear amps I would think the SS hifi guys here would know what amp might be a good fit. I have been out of the music end of things for quite a while and only got back into guitar amps the last few years. If you have a power transformer already maybe try a linear amp. Well, sort of linear, as in my previous post if you are biamping you are more concerned it puts out power without hiccuping when push comes to shove.
Or a old workhorse from years ago. I mentioned the Peavey's, I recall us not having a problem with them when we used them for the bottom end of our PA. Still have a Yamaha amp from that time, kind of small by today's standards, 220W per channel, used them for our midrange and never had a problem with them either. They can be bridged so maybe double the power. I have a Crown chassis and transformer, nothing else left of it as it was found in a fire. Was going to build it into an amp but never had the need to. Too old for that stuff now.
We used to have 18" Cerwin Vega's in our PA and I know what you mean about them in a folded horn. We also tried them in a bass reflex cabinet for a time so I have a fair idea what they can do and what not. Maybe rent an amp for a gig or two to see if this system will work for you. I have no problem with biamping for a PA, never really liked it for instruments. If you are going to lug around stuff maybe two more 15's will do it for you. Then there is your sound guy. Is he ok with you putting out a lot of sound from the stage? I always found it harder to get a good mix when I had to drop out an instrument because the stage level was too high. Just a few more thoughts to muddy the waters some more. 😱
As far as linear amps I would think the SS hifi guys here would know what amp might be a good fit. I have been out of the music end of things for quite a while and only got back into guitar amps the last few years. If you have a power transformer already maybe try a linear amp. Well, sort of linear, as in my previous post if you are biamping you are more concerned it puts out power without hiccuping when push comes to shove.
Or a old workhorse from years ago. I mentioned the Peavey's, I recall us not having a problem with them when we used them for the bottom end of our PA. Still have a Yamaha amp from that time, kind of small by today's standards, 220W per channel, used them for our midrange and never had a problem with them either. They can be bridged so maybe double the power. I have a Crown chassis and transformer, nothing else left of it as it was found in a fire. Was going to build it into an amp but never had the need to. Too old for that stuff now.
We used to have 18" Cerwin Vega's in our PA and I know what you mean about them in a folded horn. We also tried them in a bass reflex cabinet for a time so I have a fair idea what they can do and what not. Maybe rent an amp for a gig or two to see if this system will work for you. I have no problem with biamping for a PA, never really liked it for instruments. If you are going to lug around stuff maybe two more 15's will do it for you. Then there is your sound guy. Is he ok with you putting out a lot of sound from the stage? I always found it harder to get a good mix when I had to drop out an instrument because the stage level was too high. Just a few more thoughts to muddy the waters some more. 😱
ah gee...
well look, you can not use a 2,000 watt amp on ur single 300W 18' speaker, unless you have a way to limit the power going to the speaker.
by the same token using a solid state amp that is equal to or under the power you need to drive the 18" to the point of burning the voice coil, you are likely to *clip* said amp and cause damage that way.
The other factor is *thermal* both for the speaker AND the amplifier.
If either exceeds its thermal limits (summer night, hot club?) due to insufficient air flow, and rising ambient heatsink temperature - and the same thing for the voice coil, you get flame out.
So, what is the solution?
There are no pat solutions, only ways of minimizing the issue.
The tendency for most typical bands is to "turn up", especially if ur not hearing urself well on stage and/or ur not in the monitors.
On solid state, a limiter will prevent clipping and the destruction that can come from that. BUT, if you keep turning up ur "playing in the limiter" all the time. Maybe that is not a bad thing, maybe it is, depends.
With a proper limiter you could use a much more powerful amp and let it loaf, eliminating the probability of a thermal blow out or clipping. Knowing how to set up and manage the limiter and ur rig then becomes critical.
Tubes make this much easier, since you can bang the heck out of them and just get more "tone", and usually a fairly soft clip.
The other thing you are not thinking about at all is what does that cone DO below the frequency that your port is effective? Look it up.
Ur going to need a high pass filter - it will increase ur max SPL and power handling substantially. Excursion is ur enemy.
Send check in mail.
_-_-
PS. you run something like a Behringer iNuke kW power range class D amp and I doubt it will ever blow up (unless there is a component defect), IF it is run as I suggested above - it will hardly be working, the distortion will be pretty low too...
well look, you can not use a 2,000 watt amp on ur single 300W 18' speaker, unless you have a way to limit the power going to the speaker.
by the same token using a solid state amp that is equal to or under the power you need to drive the 18" to the point of burning the voice coil, you are likely to *clip* said amp and cause damage that way.
The other factor is *thermal* both for the speaker AND the amplifier.
If either exceeds its thermal limits (summer night, hot club?) due to insufficient air flow, and rising ambient heatsink temperature - and the same thing for the voice coil, you get flame out.
So, what is the solution?
There are no pat solutions, only ways of minimizing the issue.
The tendency for most typical bands is to "turn up", especially if ur not hearing urself well on stage and/or ur not in the monitors.
On solid state, a limiter will prevent clipping and the destruction that can come from that. BUT, if you keep turning up ur "playing in the limiter" all the time. Maybe that is not a bad thing, maybe it is, depends.
With a proper limiter you could use a much more powerful amp and let it loaf, eliminating the probability of a thermal blow out or clipping. Knowing how to set up and manage the limiter and ur rig then becomes critical.
Tubes make this much easier, since you can bang the heck out of them and just get more "tone", and usually a fairly soft clip.
The other thing you are not thinking about at all is what does that cone DO below the frequency that your port is effective? Look it up.
Ur going to need a high pass filter - it will increase ur max SPL and power handling substantially. Excursion is ur enemy.
Send check in mail.
_-_-
PS. you run something like a Behringer iNuke kW power range class D amp and I doubt it will ever blow up (unless there is a component defect), IF it is run as I suggested above - it will hardly be working, the distortion will be pretty low too...
Same but different... Since Class D is itself a switching mode power amp, so whether you use a SMPS or not is moot.
Yep, as I already recommended, Hypex. Use their 1200 watt SMPS with a single 700 watt module, that will put you right in the ballpark for your specified 8 ohm needs. If you insist on using an old school power supply they can set you up for that as well.
Someone mentioned Talkbass.com. There have been many well proven DIY 2-way and 3-way cab solutions presented there, and a few DIY amp builds that I have personally heard and that I feel sound great for real world gigging situations. I've been gigging a few times a week with an ICE 1000ASP module for over six years now with no hint of reliability issues yet. Just finished up an integrated amp build with the 500ASP, and having owned many Crowns, QSCs, Haflers, etc., I would never remotely consider reverting to what amounts to a lot of extra dead weight for my purposes. I'm no hard rocker though, so your mileage may vary considerably.
First, on the SMPS's, the units I have encountered have been the run-of-the-mill consumer level variety. Won't name any names, but from some of the large Designed-in-USA, Made-in-China companies. I've found them to be either excessively noisy, excessively failure-prone, or both. Never played around with a good one, but with ready access to iron and large ps capacitors salvaged from other equipment it's basically a given that I would build my own power supply around a transformer or two.
I looked briefly at the Hypex stuff earlier, will send an email to them for more info tomorrow. Thanks for that suggestion, looks like pretty decent stuff. The class D amplifiers that I've played around with to date, mostly standard consumer-level stuff(though some on the upper end of that range) have left me unimpressed. I am however willing to lay aside prejudice and do some more investigation.
Clip limiters and high pass filters. Good power amps have these built in. If I were to somehow buld my own, could you direct me to some good resources to study up on these? My experience with current limiters is basically the home-made variety using incandescent light bulbs in series with a load. Not sure if that's the most ideal setup for a live sound application...
As far as bi-amping, I've never been a fan of typical bi-amp setups for bass. They typically use a small amp for the highs, perhaps in an effort to keep the highs clear from intermodulation distortion when the amp is driven hard. With tube amps, they do tend to sound better when pushed to the limit. Not quite as much for bass as they do for guitar though. I like moderate distortion in the mids, basically just a mild growl with a bit of compression, but distortion on the lows just sounds like elephant farts. Not my cup of tea. All of my years of experience has now led me to this new idea: To take the sound that I like, that I have dialed in above 80-100hz, and augment that with something big and ugly to give me the gut-punching lows that I want. I'm not absolutely certain it would work, so that's why I want to maintain the versatility. I'm honestly not too impressed with much modern consumer-level bass gear, though there are some GK heads that I thought sounded pretty good. I do know somebody with a couple of those old Peavey rack-mount power amps, and he may be interested in a trade of some sort. That would probably work, I suppose. It would depend on proper filtering, and they could maybe be modified a bit to improve cooling capacity.
On the topic of stage volume and sound guys, it's rare where I play to actually encounter a competent sound guy or a decent sound system. They invariably want to run the bass direct, and slaughter the tone in the mains. In the smaller clubs I can easily get away with bypassing the PA altogether. I just set the bass level to the drums and go. I'm not playing high-end venues where there are extended sound checks, just dive bars and small to medium rock clubs. I like to have as much control over my sound as possible without having to rely on the sound guys to make it sound ok. No offense to good sound guys intended, just that I rarely get to work with any. I know sound guys typically get blamed for everything, and I do not want to open that can of worms now, in this forum.
Mr. Passinwind, could you perhaps refer me specifically to the threads you describe from talkbass? The DIY amps you've heard? That sounds like the kind of info that I'm looking for.
Thanks again for the advice, everyone.
I looked briefly at the Hypex stuff earlier, will send an email to them for more info tomorrow. Thanks for that suggestion, looks like pretty decent stuff. The class D amplifiers that I've played around with to date, mostly standard consumer-level stuff(though some on the upper end of that range) have left me unimpressed. I am however willing to lay aside prejudice and do some more investigation.
Clip limiters and high pass filters. Good power amps have these built in. If I were to somehow buld my own, could you direct me to some good resources to study up on these? My experience with current limiters is basically the home-made variety using incandescent light bulbs in series with a load. Not sure if that's the most ideal setup for a live sound application...
As far as bi-amping, I've never been a fan of typical bi-amp setups for bass. They typically use a small amp for the highs, perhaps in an effort to keep the highs clear from intermodulation distortion when the amp is driven hard. With tube amps, they do tend to sound better when pushed to the limit. Not quite as much for bass as they do for guitar though. I like moderate distortion in the mids, basically just a mild growl with a bit of compression, but distortion on the lows just sounds like elephant farts. Not my cup of tea. All of my years of experience has now led me to this new idea: To take the sound that I like, that I have dialed in above 80-100hz, and augment that with something big and ugly to give me the gut-punching lows that I want. I'm not absolutely certain it would work, so that's why I want to maintain the versatility. I'm honestly not too impressed with much modern consumer-level bass gear, though there are some GK heads that I thought sounded pretty good. I do know somebody with a couple of those old Peavey rack-mount power amps, and he may be interested in a trade of some sort. That would probably work, I suppose. It would depend on proper filtering, and they could maybe be modified a bit to improve cooling capacity.
On the topic of stage volume and sound guys, it's rare where I play to actually encounter a competent sound guy or a decent sound system. They invariably want to run the bass direct, and slaughter the tone in the mains. In the smaller clubs I can easily get away with bypassing the PA altogether. I just set the bass level to the drums and go. I'm not playing high-end venues where there are extended sound checks, just dive bars and small to medium rock clubs. I like to have as much control over my sound as possible without having to rely on the sound guys to make it sound ok. No offense to good sound guys intended, just that I rarely get to work with any. I know sound guys typically get blamed for everything, and I do not want to open that can of worms now, in this forum.
Mr. Passinwind, could you perhaps refer me specifically to the threads you describe from talkbass? The DIY amps you've heard? That sounds like the kind of info that I'm looking for.
Thanks again for the advice, everyone.
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