I've been reading quite a bit here (boy! Is there lots of info here!) and all over the web about various single driver projects. There is a bewildering set of choices and often contradictory advice. I also notice that some of the projects have dates which are quite old and wonder whether they are outdated.
Having said that, is there such a thing as the top 10 of recommended starter projects? (better top 5! 🙂)
What am I looking for? I am assuming right from the start that I will likely end up going through several designs and probably several drivers before finding my own sweet spot. So starting with something that doesn't take too much wood working is probably a good idea for me. Also something that starts with drivers that are not too expensive. (Say, < 200$ for the pair of drivers; I did notice that there seem to be some interesting projects that use even 40$ type drivers; great! that much the better in terms of building multiple designs and comparing them head to head.)
In terms of the music I listen too. Not classic, not hard rock. Lots of lounge, chill, female vocals, Boss-nova, nu-jazz, but also the (very!) occasional acid trance and trip-hop. (If the speakers do only a certain range of things.... fine. I don't expect them to be the end-all on the first go around.)
Things I have looked at and wondered about:
- a couple of JX92S projects (I am thinking I don't want to go with JX92S on the first go around because of the price, but I like the shapes): Tobler-ONE at http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Speakers/Tobler-ONE and the MLTQWP speaker at http://www.pmillett.com/jx92s.htm
- MarkII from Planet_10 http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/fonken-tune-FE127-FS-Mk2.pdf
- Buschhorn MK2 http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/buschhorn-Mk2.gif
- Mileva/Demetri from Planet_10 (the latter has 3 possible drivers mentioned... how do I decide?)
I appreciate your patience with a noob eager to learn and experiment.
peter
Having said that, is there such a thing as the top 10 of recommended starter projects? (better top 5! 🙂)
What am I looking for? I am assuming right from the start that I will likely end up going through several designs and probably several drivers before finding my own sweet spot. So starting with something that doesn't take too much wood working is probably a good idea for me. Also something that starts with drivers that are not too expensive. (Say, < 200$ for the pair of drivers; I did notice that there seem to be some interesting projects that use even 40$ type drivers; great! that much the better in terms of building multiple designs and comparing them head to head.)
In terms of the music I listen too. Not classic, not hard rock. Lots of lounge, chill, female vocals, Boss-nova, nu-jazz, but also the (very!) occasional acid trance and trip-hop. (If the speakers do only a certain range of things.... fine. I don't expect them to be the end-all on the first go around.)
Things I have looked at and wondered about:
- a couple of JX92S projects (I am thinking I don't want to go with JX92S on the first go around because of the price, but I like the shapes): Tobler-ONE at http://www.diyaudioprojects.com/Speakers/Tobler-ONE and the MLTQWP speaker at http://www.pmillett.com/jx92s.htm
- MarkII from Planet_10 http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/fonken-tune-FE127-FS-Mk2.pdf
- Buschhorn MK2 http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/box-plans/buschhorn-Mk2.gif
- Mileva/Demetri from Planet_10 (the latter has 3 possible drivers mentioned... how do I decide?)
I appreciate your patience with a noob eager to learn and experiment.
peter
If you're as unskilled in woodwork as me, the Needles are an option:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=47403
Cheap, pretty, and easy.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=47403
Cheap, pretty, and easy.
One good project seems to be the BIBs. I don't think I have heard any negative feedback on these hardly at all. Super easy build and you can put just about any driver in them.
They are tall though. If you are looking for more WAF, perhaps a Fonken Floorstander (no angles and easy construction as well. It also works well with a pretty inexpensive driver)
Lots of things might make good first projects. I would suggest simply to stay away from anything that might still be under development until after you build one or two because until you have that experience, you might not know where to start tinkering with experimental designs. That's one reason I suggested the BIB. There have been LOTS of them built and most of the variables to make them better are "known".
Keep us posted on what you decide to try.
Take care,
Robert
They are tall though. If you are looking for more WAF, perhaps a Fonken Floorstander (no angles and easy construction as well. It also works well with a pretty inexpensive driver)
Lots of things might make good first projects. I would suggest simply to stay away from anything that might still be under development until after you build one or two because until you have that experience, you might not know where to start tinkering with experimental designs. That's one reason I suggested the BIB. There have been LOTS of them built and most of the variables to make them better are "known".
Keep us posted on what you decide to try.
Take care,
Robert
I looked at the BIB site. Indeed this seems very easy. I am surprised that such few parameters can do well in describing the speakers.musgofasa said:
There was one thing I found confusing. At the bottom of http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp it talks about how to use the stuffing to "shape" the frequency response:
"When stuffing your BIB you want to hear frequencies from approximately 300Hz down."
Meaning what? 🙂 I should hope to hear also frequencies above... 🙂
What is meant with that sentence? Where am I supposed to listen for the frequencies from 300Hz down? Will they only start appearing once i stuff? (something tells me the answer is likely obvious, but I just don't understand what I am supposed to do...)
peter
Thats 300hz and down as heard from terminus which is upward facing on a standard BiB. Out-front all is well 😉
I found building a pair of BiBs to be very rewarding.
7/10
I found building a pair of BiBs to be very rewarding.
7/10
I think I just found the answer. Ideally only 300Hz and below should come out the top. Stuff until this is the case.schro20 said:
Is that understanding correct?
peter
Yup,
The speaker on the front can play all frequencies as you will most likely use a full range driver. The whole point of the enclosure is to reinforce the bass frequencies. You wouldn't want the high frequencies coming out the top end of the box and muddying up the sound in the room. The bass frequencies are more omni-directional and need some support to be loud enough to be even with the higher frequencies that the driver can play on it's own.
Hence, a good benchmark is to play a tone generator through the system and stuff the enclosure until you really don't hear anything coming out of the "mouth" of the horn except the stuff below 300 hz. Of course, I believe this could be subjective as some people likely prefer more or less, but that is what makes the tweaking fun is finding what works best for your taste and your room
Take care,
Robert
The speaker on the front can play all frequencies as you will most likely use a full range driver. The whole point of the enclosure is to reinforce the bass frequencies. You wouldn't want the high frequencies coming out the top end of the box and muddying up the sound in the room. The bass frequencies are more omni-directional and need some support to be loud enough to be even with the higher frequencies that the driver can play on it's own.
Hence, a good benchmark is to play a tone generator through the system and stuff the enclosure until you really don't hear anything coming out of the "mouth" of the horn except the stuff below 300 hz. Of course, I believe this could be subjective as some people likely prefer more or less, but that is what makes the tweaking fun is finding what works best for your taste and your room
Take care,
Robert
schro20 said:
I have just started sending out an updated version of the FS Mk II document (adding a couple more options to the same basic build)
Buschhorn is a quite old design. For about the same amount of effort a Frugel-Horn Level 0 is a better box (and gets better as you go to levels 1, 2, 3)
The Pioneer B20 likely works in the Demetri as well... if you are going to consider B20 (with options open to upgrade drivers later, G Chang, Curvy Chang, and particularily for a 1st project Half-Chang are good candidates
Nothing will produce bottom like a BIB, but you end up with a very large box and trade the bass for more ripple in the midrange than designs that don't try to extract as much bass.
dave
Dave,
Thank you. Very useful. I had not looked at the Changs.
On a related note: what is required to take measurements after the build? I will use my ears, but I also want to take actual measurements as I go through design iterations (stuffing, different drivers, etc.). I see a lot of diagrams shown, some of which come from simulation but others from measurement. Though I don't seem to find much info on how to set up a reasonably cost effective measurement setup. I figured a good mic and the right software ought to be one path. Or maybe even just a Radio Shack SPL meter?
Any advice on how to do this? I want to compare the simulations with the measurements.
Peter
Thank you. Very useful. I had not looked at the Changs.
On a related note: what is required to take measurements after the build? I will use my ears, but I also want to take actual measurements as I go through design iterations (stuffing, different drivers, etc.). I see a lot of diagrams shown, some of which come from simulation but others from measurement. Though I don't seem to find much info on how to set up a reasonably cost effective measurement setup. I figured a good mic and the right software ought to be one path. Or maybe even just a Radio Shack SPL meter?
Any advice on how to do this? I want to compare the simulations with the measurements.
Peter
A Radio Shack meter and a 1/3 octave pink noise CD will give reasonable results without sending you to the poorhouse.
The warble tone Cd works well also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...go=DR&its=S%2BI%2BSS&itu=ISS%2BUCI%2BSI&otn=4
The warble tone Cd works well also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...go=DR&its=S%2BI%2BSS&itu=ISS%2BUCI%2BSI&otn=4
Here might be a cheap(er) option.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=107225&highlight=
The drivers are currently $27 each, but they are nice.
I'm still a newb, but these replaced some Bose 101s (thank gawd the ONLY bose I have ever owned) and they blew them out of the water. In range and in detail.
This spring I am going to do a passive woofer to help with some low end. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-826
I had gotten that for a computer 2.1 system, but I got some TB 5.25 drivers on sale to replace it. IMO the 5" will work better as a passive sub because it's not really a sub woofer and it's SLP is really close to my main drivers.
I'm not a expert, but I think the W4-1052SD is sort of a sleeper driver. It sounds REALLY good for the price. TB suggest using it as a car driver, but I'm currently running it without any filters at all, and it doesn't have any nasty peaks that the ear can pick up. I'm going to go back and double check stuff this year when I do the passive woofer, but it does work well with just a driver.
I am running a SI baby t amp tho and it has a slight bass roll off, so that might be part of the reason it works so well without any filters. The amp I'm using is sorta it's own bass blocker.
It's my bed room system, but it sounds better then what I hear in most peoples houses.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=107225&highlight=
The drivers are currently $27 each, but they are nice.
I'm still a newb, but these replaced some Bose 101s (thank gawd the ONLY bose I have ever owned) and they blew them out of the water. In range and in detail.
This spring I am going to do a passive woofer to help with some low end. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-826
I had gotten that for a computer 2.1 system, but I got some TB 5.25 drivers on sale to replace it. IMO the 5" will work better as a passive sub because it's not really a sub woofer and it's SLP is really close to my main drivers.
I'm not a expert, but I think the W4-1052SD is sort of a sleeper driver. It sounds REALLY good for the price. TB suggest using it as a car driver, but I'm currently running it without any filters at all, and it doesn't have any nasty peaks that the ear can pick up. I'm going to go back and double check stuff this year when I do the passive woofer, but it does work well with just a driver.
I am running a SI baby t amp tho and it has a slight bass roll off, so that might be part of the reason it works so well without any filters. The amp I'm using is sorta it's own bass blocker.
It's my bed room system, but it sounds better then what I hear in most peoples houses.
Re: Re: Getting started: choice of first project
peter
Is this something that's on the planet-10 webpage? I can only the see document that was there before but no update. Where should I look?planet10 said:
peter
Re: Re: Getting started: choice of first project
peter
I looked at the frugal horn document, but it still leaves any number of things open. For example it talks of different chamber sizes but then doesn't seem to indicate which one to use for which driver. Am I just not looking in the right place?planet10 said:
peter
Re: Re: Re: Getting started: choice of first project
At this point you have to email me for those, they aren't quite ready to post yet...
dave
schro20 said:
At this point you have to email me for those, they aren't quite ready to post yet...
dave
Re: Re: Re: Getting started: choice of first project
So far only data for 2 drivers is in (and aren't in the document but in the thread... 2.16->2.2 litres for the FE126 and 1.8 litres for the FE108eS. Even with this there is a bit of latitude for experimenting if you are really anal as the "perfect" size will be a bit different depending on where your particular pair of drivers spec out and even what the weather is. Personally we have been happy with the standard "small" size with the FE127....
dave
schro20 said:
So far only data for 2 drivers is in (and aren't in the document but in the thread... 2.16->2.2 litres for the FE126 and 1.8 litres for the FE108eS. Even with this there is a bit of latitude for experimenting if you are really anal as the "perfect" size will be a bit different depending on where your particular pair of drivers spec out and even what the weather is. Personally we have been happy with the standard "small" size with the FE127....
dave
Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting started: choice of first project
For now I'll stick with something more straightforward. I think for my first build I will want something where I can just "follow the instructions" and then go from there to experiment.
peter
Aye.planet10 said:
For now I'll stick with something more straightforward. I think for my first build I will want something where I can just "follow the instructions" and then go from there to experiment.
peter
If you're really not into woodworking, you might want to wait for Dave's replacement baffle for the Parts Express .5 cu ft box and the FE127eN. I'm using the box and the drivers, and even with a non-optimal baffle and venting, it's terrific for the types of music you mention. Except for a couple of them. 😉 - Pat
tubesguy said:
Got 1st acceptable version done on Saturday... actually 2 versions. I'll probably publish both but only make 1.
dave
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