cocolino said:
The point of the linked thread is clear enough, as you said.
The problem is that I do not know the man as well as you do to be able to guarantee this is not a re-run of the linked episode.
Well, I paid through the PayPal and lost my chance to file a claim because I paid for the goods 2 MONTHS ago (and still haven't received them). I believe I'm entitled to a healthy dose of impatience and suspicion, don't you think? Also, it was me who stood by him in this thread when others questioned the authenticity of the parts. I assure you that the aftertaste of being taken for a ride is a nasty one indeed.
Anyway, I contacted A'af in the meantime. He was kind enough to apologize and promise a refund. I replied I expected the refund within the next 10 days or so. So, we'll see.
Regards,
Milan
Out of despair I measured all my batch of fake K389/J109 (10 pairs) with my cheap DT830E multimeter, only the right side as there is too much work required to measure both side (a LOT of soldering).
hfe 507~567: 7 pcs
hfe 468~491: 6 pcs
hfe 433~440: 5 pcs
hfe 248~297: 2 pcs
The K and J were similarly distributed 😱
So I think most of these twinborn NPN BJT are BL class device.
hfe 507~567: 7 pcs
hfe 468~491: 6 pcs
hfe 433~440: 5 pcs
hfe 248~297: 2 pcs
The K and J were similarly distributed 😱
So I think most of these twinborn NPN BJT are BL class device.
I've just been notified by my daughter that my package has arrived, i am in Russia now, the trannies are in Manila, I've spent a hard earned U$255 for those fakes. i just hope i get something back........😀
After testing a few of the K389 devices with the borbely test circuit, I have decided to quite after one of them blow up on me and burned out the fuse in my multimeter. I can safely assume that all of my devices are bad, just like the rest of you.
A'af you can expect a request for refund from me in the coming week if you can not resolve this with your supplier.
Dan.
A'af you can expect a request for refund from me in the coming week if you can not resolve this with your supplier.
Dan.
What things cross my mind is...
"is it TOSHIBA production line wrong/missed stamped it, and not destroy it and the excess of this missed product out to market incidentally??"
As my post before, i will fix the problems and mess here, but first i need to talk to my supplyer first as well, not just all of you have a high temper here... I'm also very SAD to realized this
but the first step to fix this is depend on my supplyer statement about this.
I know this supplyer for a long time, and i'm sure that company want cheat me like this, they have hold many company and customers.
I just can say this for sure for now...
all the best,
a'af
"is it TOSHIBA production line wrong/missed stamped it, and not destroy it and the excess of this missed product out to market incidentally??"
As my post before, i will fix the problems and mess here, but first i need to talk to my supplyer first as well, not just all of you have a high temper here... I'm also very SAD to realized this
but the first step to fix this is depend on my supplyer statement about this.
I know this supplyer for a long time, and i'm sure that company want cheat me like this, they have hold many company and customers.
I just can say this for sure for now...
all the best,
a'af
Re: What things cross my mind is...
A'af,
It is not a Toshiba production problem. I stated before in my post #347 these devices are used and removed from existing equipment. Every device has had either the front set or the back set of pins cut. If you have a new device to compare with (which I do) you can see this clearly. Also, on a lot of them they were cut at an angle so the pins get progressively shorter. Once cut the device is easier to remove the other set of pins by desoldering it.
The other reason this can not be a Toshiba production problem is the fact that the pins have been coated with solder. That is the reason the pins are thicker than normal. Toshiba, and for that matter all manufactures, electroplate the pins of small signal devices because they have to adhere to set tolerances for the pin dimensions. This is also readily apparent when you compare a new device with the ones you sent out to us.
And lastly the reason this is not a Toshiba problem is that it is very noticeable that these devices have been relabeled compared to a new and authentic Toshiba device. The lettering on the fakes are fatter and not lined up or even with the edges like the real thing. In fact on every one of the devices you sent me the lettering is at different distance from the edge or the letter is not lined up (ie parallel) with the edge. You do not get this from real mass produced devices from a major manufacturer. They have certain tolerance to adhere to.
A'af said:
A'af,
It is not a Toshiba production problem. I stated before in my post #347 these devices are used and removed from existing equipment. Every device has had either the front set or the back set of pins cut. If you have a new device to compare with (which I do) you can see this clearly. Also, on a lot of them they were cut at an angle so the pins get progressively shorter. Once cut the device is easier to remove the other set of pins by desoldering it.
The other reason this can not be a Toshiba production problem is the fact that the pins have been coated with solder. That is the reason the pins are thicker than normal. Toshiba, and for that matter all manufactures, electroplate the pins of small signal devices because they have to adhere to set tolerances for the pin dimensions. This is also readily apparent when you compare a new device with the ones you sent out to us.
And lastly the reason this is not a Toshiba problem is that it is very noticeable that these devices have been relabeled compared to a new and authentic Toshiba device. The lettering on the fakes are fatter and not lined up or even with the edges like the real thing. In fact on every one of the devices you sent me the lettering is at different distance from the edge or the letter is not lined up (ie parallel) with the edge. You do not get this from real mass produced devices from a major manufacturer. They have certain tolerance to adhere to.
I can't really see the point in speaking to the supplier because they could not be trusted again so I'm up for a refund.
Wishful thinking?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but someone, presumably the "supplyer" went to all the trouble of relabelling fakes to particular specs.
Yes, these were not sitting in storage, waiting for a sucker but were specifically manufactured for this group buy. What are the chances the people behind this effort will refund anyone? What can possibly transpire on the fifth? Will A'af refund out of his own pocket? 🙂
PayPal is your only real chance for recovery. Use it before it's too late.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but someone, presumably the "supplyer" went to all the trouble of relabelling fakes to particular specs.
Yes, these were not sitting in storage, waiting for a sucker but were specifically manufactured for this group buy. What are the chances the people behind this effort will refund anyone? What can possibly transpire on the fifth? Will A'af refund out of his own pocket? 🙂
PayPal is your only real chance for recovery. Use it before it's too late.
Paypal's response:
Thank You for the Information Provided
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your item is not covered by PayPal Buyer Protection. Thus, we are not able to help you at this point.
However, if more claims are being filed against this seller within the next 180 days we will review this case more closely.
Please contact the seller directly to solve this case. We have to debit the reversal amount as well as a 5 EUR processing fee from your PayPal account.
Thank You for the Information Provided
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your item is not covered by PayPal Buyer Protection. Thus, we are not able to help you at this point.
However, if more claims are being filed against this seller within the next 180 days we will review this case more closely.
Please contact the seller directly to solve this case. We have to debit the reversal amount as well as a 5 EUR processing fee from your PayPal account.
Well that sounds both good and bad...
I think we should wait to see what happens the 5th and then all file a complaint if A'af doesn't come up with an acceptable solution.
I think we should wait to see what happens the 5th and then all file a complaint if A'af doesn't come up with an acceptable solution.
All I had was some email exchange with A'af prior the start of this groupbuy. Some posts of him here in the forum got me started as these posts indicated that he seemed to have the parts I seeked for (or at least he seemed to have access to them). Besides this I wanted to "get a feel for" of what kind of person he is. I mean what more can one -really- do if You want to buy something from someone located on the other side of the planet than to plumb the depths of the risks involved.
Maybe this appears silly to You but maybe You understand what I mean.
By all means I wouldn`t have invested what I actually have if I would not have been convinced to the biggest extend about his integrity, as far this was possible for me.
So I do not know much more than You or anybody else here.
Of course I admit my instinct could have been wrong and of course I also can`t guaranty anything but I still believe in "A`af" though, until I`m prooved otherwise.
No question You are, so am I or anyone else who is directly concerned but -I- am convinced that impatience -at the moment- simply will not help the situation in any way. So -I- just prefer to keep quiet and see what "A`af" comes forward with next week.
With "keep quiet" I mean I will not start to complain, this should not mean that I think people who get their parts should stop to report back here what they got.
Quite the opposite I think it`s essential that people will continue to tell when they got parts and whenever possible to test them or to show some more photos.
"A`af" has commented to me already yesterday his idea that this might have happened in the factory.
I thought hard about this and finally came to the conclusion that it might not be so far off.
This parts could in fact be 2SC3381 dual transistors as already indicated by others. Although 2SC3381 are much cheaper than DUAL-JFETs it somehow doesn`t make sense to me that someone is going to make the efforts to relabel them as Dual JFETs.
And why not at least to relabel new parts, why parts which are obviously cutted out of equipment? Again this doesn`t make sense.
I`m not a semiconductor insider but I can imagine it could well be that it actually happened that Thosiba has mislabeled this parts by themselves accidentially (the 2SC3381 dual transistors have exactly the same housing and pinout than the DUAL-JFETs!) and that they have not been destroyed immediately but found their way through inofficial channels into production of equipment whereupon they had been ripped out as soon as it was clear that something is very wrong with this parts (of course, as this are no DUAL-JFETs).
At least this would explain why the leads are cutted. It doesn`t explain why the leads are dipped into solder again and it also does not explain how this parts could have got back to a supplier and moreover that they were sold as new parts.
I know this is all pure speculation.
About the labeling:
Below I attached a photo from 2SC3381 I bought by chance only recently from a reputable source here in Germany. Those are supposed to be original Thosiba.
As You can see the labeling is not consistent as well. It is mostly not centered, sometimes shifted more to the right, some more to the left, sometimes even slightly inclined. What can`t be seen so well on the photo, the letters itself also are a little different, some are fatter than others, a little faded etc.
Basically I can`t see much difference to the labeling of the 2SK389 shown by member "es44" post#344 in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=1385671&stamp=1198877609&
Attachments
Hi Cocolino, All,
I heavily doubt, that a semiconductor manufacturer like Toshiba
has issues with messing up parts. It´s not a craftsman´s shop
where it could happen by indidence, that nials or screws are mixed up. Processing semiconductors means sometimes
more than a hundred processing steps in the front-end and more than a dozend in the back-end, each process step performed very well defined conditions with the right equippment and the right process parameters.
As soon has the part logistics is not under control no single functional device would leave the fab and within a very short time the fab would be history.
On the other hand devices are sometimes offered as dies which could be integrated into a convenient housing by other parties or directly wire-bonded to your electronic board.
If labeling has went wrong, than I would suspect, it occured at a such a third party ( Kind of craftsmen shop for devices ;-) )
But well, I should stop speculating and leave it up to A´af to trace back where the problem occured and to come up with a reasonable propasal how to satisfy his customers.
I heavily doubt, that a semiconductor manufacturer like Toshiba
has issues with messing up parts. It´s not a craftsman´s shop
where it could happen by indidence, that nials or screws are mixed up. Processing semiconductors means sometimes
more than a hundred processing steps in the front-end and more than a dozend in the back-end, each process step performed very well defined conditions with the right equippment and the right process parameters.
As soon has the part logistics is not under control no single functional device would leave the fab and within a very short time the fab would be history.
On the other hand devices are sometimes offered as dies which could be integrated into a convenient housing by other parties or directly wire-bonded to your electronic board.
If labeling has went wrong, than I would suspect, it occured at a such a third party ( Kind of craftsmen shop for devices ;-) )
But well, I should stop speculating and leave it up to A´af to trace back where the problem occured and to come up with a reasonable propasal how to satisfy his customers.
Hi all,
Please, please... i also need my head to calm down.
If i want do scam and fraud. For what?? I sent the items to anyone, is just simple for me to run and disappear. i doing this GB for good, and i just need time to confirm to my supplyer about this, and i will take a firm step what to do next...
But for now... i can not do anything!!
all the best,
a'af
Please, please... i also need my head to calm down.
If i want do scam and fraud. For what?? I sent the items to anyone, is just simple for me to run and disappear. i doing this GB for good, and i just need time to confirm to my supplyer about this, and i will take a firm step what to do next...
But for now... i can not do anything!!
all the best,
a'af
I can't help thinking, that Your supplier has put You in a very bad situation A'af. I know i would have a serious headache too, if i was the unlucky person being put there.
As mentioned before, i will take no steps yet, You should have a chance to confront Your supplier first.
After all, You did start this GB to help us all to get some rare stuff, we should all remember this.
The fact that You are still here, makes me think that You are not the "bad guy".
Best regards
Ebbe
As mentioned before, i will take no steps yet, You should have a chance to confront Your supplier first.
After all, You did start this GB to help us all to get some rare stuff, we should all remember this.
The fact that You are still here, makes me think that You are not the "bad guy".
Best regards
Ebbe
- Status
- Not open for further replies.