Whilecwaiting for temperature outside, i double checked the fit of drivers and rim-rings:
Looks Fine!
Looks Fine!
It looks great. I have been trying to imagine what the 3D printed trim rings would look like, and now I see it. It is an inovative solution.
First one painted:
Some small finetuning needed.
Some small finetuning needed.
Both painted, holes drilled and M5 threads cut, now family obligations first, then the process of mounting drivers and the wool damping.
Finally has some time to measure a bit more usefull ;-)
Tweeter:
Response @ 100cm from baffle @ 2.8Vrms
Distortion (ARTA) @ 30cm form baffle @ 2.8Vrms
Midrange:
Note: The spl level indication is wrong (too high), i simply cannot get the spl level correct in ARTA in pseudo-2channel measurements. Could not figure what i do wrong, or have overlooked.
The individual driver measurements do show different levels, so i will use the differences for now.
Woofer:
Need to join near field with farfield.
Next steps: analyse the measurments and address the issues (spikes for one)
Tweeter:
Response @ 100cm from baffle @ 2.8Vrms
Distortion (ARTA) @ 30cm form baffle @ 2.8Vrms
Midrange:
Note: The spl level indication is wrong (too high), i simply cannot get the spl level correct in ARTA in pseudo-2channel measurements. Could not figure what i do wrong, or have overlooked.
The individual driver measurements do show different levels, so i will use the differences for now.
Woofer:
Need to join near field with farfield.
Next steps: analyse the measurments and address the issues (spikes for one)
Both enclosures now have the drivers in place. Next week the electronics and xlr cabling and speakon cabling and chassis connects in place . Finallly Light at the end of the tunel ;-)
It will be 3-way active xo using acourate.
It will be 3-way active xo using acourate.
Not yet but will in the following months. I have read only good stuff about the RS225, so I expect good sound.
Not my intention to OT your thread 🙂
Short update. Finally got the IT network needed for design and apply active xo and drc working properly. Microsoft funnyness regarding computer naming in a mixed w10home, w10pro and w11 environment.
Now i can continue on becoming proficient enough with acourate and the use its convolver before having a remote session with Uli .
Given the complexities i documented the procedures i follow, helps a lot.
Now i can continue on becoming proficient enough with acourate and the use its convolver before having a remote session with Uli .
Given the complexities i documented the procedures i follow, helps a lot.
I returned from a short vacation, and continued to learn Acourate for creating an active XO.
I received Acourate v3 including the Crossover linearisation macro from sinc-pulse, so i use that version now.
The crossover frequencies i have chosen are 433 and 3464 Hz. Before my vacation i already made some driver measurements with Acourate LogSweepRecorder.
The Acourate procedure in short is as follows:
With Acourate V3 a extra function is added: Crossover linearisation macro from sinc-pulse, which combines the linearisation actions and covlving into one action, and yes quite a bit shorter in time and effort ;-)
I used it to check if i had learned Acourate well by comparing the manual vs the macro approach.
Red: the macro result
Black: the manual result
Top: Amplitude
Middle: Phase
Bottom: Pulse
The total bandwidth of this midrange is from one octave below 433Hz to one octabe above 3464 Hz, the filter type is the ULI jPol11 1st order, which starts quite slow but then drops like a stone.
The measured responses with the LogSweep (Brown) and with the Sinc-pulse (16 kHz) repeated 200x (Blue):
(measurements in my livingroom which is not very quiet ;-))
I also tested different measurement distances, here the case of measurung the upper woofer:
Convolved corrections are made for all 3 drivers, next step is to measure spl differences and timing differences to correct those as well. (and to re-arrange my electronic equipment to house 3 stereo power amplifiers )
Getting close now ;-)
I received Acourate v3 including the Crossover linearisation macro from sinc-pulse, so i use that version now.
The crossover frequencies i have chosen are 433 and 3464 Hz. Before my vacation i already made some driver measurements with Acourate LogSweepRecorder.
The Acourate procedure in short is as follows:
- Create an XO , in my case a 3-way xo.
- Measure response of drivers
- Per XO part (B, M, T) develop per driver its linearisation filters for amplitude and phase(time)
- Convolve these filters with the XO part
- Combine the modified XO parts into a multiway stereo WAV
- Deploy.
With Acourate V3 a extra function is added: Crossover linearisation macro from sinc-pulse, which combines the linearisation actions and covlving into one action, and yes quite a bit shorter in time and effort ;-)
I used it to check if i had learned Acourate well by comparing the manual vs the macro approach.
Red: the macro result
Black: the manual result
Top: Amplitude
Middle: Phase
Bottom: Pulse
The total bandwidth of this midrange is from one octave below 433Hz to one octabe above 3464 Hz, the filter type is the ULI jPol11 1st order, which starts quite slow but then drops like a stone.
The measured responses with the LogSweep (Brown) and with the Sinc-pulse (16 kHz) repeated 200x (Blue):
(measurements in my livingroom which is not very quiet ;-))
I also tested different measurement distances, here the case of measurung the upper woofer:
Convolved corrections are made for all 3 drivers, next step is to measure spl differences and timing differences to correct those as well. (and to re-arrange my electronic equipment to house 3 stereo power amplifiers )
Getting close now ;-)
I had a bit of time to further develop my understanding of Acourate, and using individual validation measurements, i combined those into a sommation of those responses, after checking and adjusting the delays.
The outcome not bad at all:
Top: Amplitude
Middle: Phase
Bottom: Pulse
The same, but middle showing group delay:
The amplitude, with the individual drivers superimposed:
This is to be seen as the anechoic response.
Cannot wait to repeat the measurements but then with the total stereo filter in place and if ok i can proceed with the off-axis measurements, and then as final step the room correction. Then the listening,listening, listening ;-)
Hmmm, great progress, !!
The outcome not bad at all:
Top: Amplitude
Middle: Phase
Bottom: Pulse
The same, but middle showing group delay:
The amplitude, with the individual drivers superimposed:
This is to be seen as the anechoic response.
Cannot wait to repeat the measurements but then with the total stereo filter in place and if ok i can proceed with the off-axis measurements, and then as final step the room correction. Then the listening,listening, listening ;-)
Hmmm, great progress, !!
GOOSE BUMPS AND TEARS OF EMOTION.
My first version of active crossover is now live, and gave me goose bumps and tears of emotion.
It is a make shift, as it is only 192kH and no DRC used.
So i let roon resample all to 192kH and with acourate convolver between roon and okto dac8pro .
This was totally unexpected.
It is a benchmark for me now, and when can fit in agenda will have a remote desktop with Uli Brueggemannt to find out how to improve.
WAUW
My first version of active crossover is now live, and gave me goose bumps and tears of emotion.
It is a make shift, as it is only 192kH and no DRC used.
So i let roon resample all to 192kH and with acourate convolver between roon and okto dac8pro .
This was totally unexpected.
It is a benchmark for me now, and when can fit in agenda will have a remote desktop with Uli Brueggemannt to find out how to improve.
WAUW
with a 4” mid-driver crossed at 400Hz and 3.5 KHz, I’m expecting the horizontal polar response to downtrending and smooth, without a wide-narrow-wide characteristics.
I bet that bass is cleaner than you’ve ever experienced, and the whole musical spectrum is as refreshing and enjoyable to your ears as you could have imagined!
Congratulations on the all the work. And Enjoy!
I bet that bass is cleaner than you’ve ever experienced, and the whole musical spectrum is as refreshing and enjoyable to your ears as you could have imagined!
Congratulations on the all the work. And Enjoy!
You summed it up @tktran303 !
The off axis spread is wider than previous config, and sounds also more even up to higher frequencies. The bass is wonderfull, the "space" between the instruments, voices, sounds is so much improved. Also my wife noticed it spontaniously.
I can play easily quite loud without noticing, must be the lower distortion levels.
Our agenda is busy at the moment, so complete measurements on and off axis has to wait a bit (requires a temporary "makeover" of the livingroom ;-)).
Very curious how the steep filters impact the off axis behaviour. (And the distortion) ( I like to measure to get more understanding. )
But i can show the measurements on axis used to validate the active xo in next post.
The off axis spread is wider than previous config, and sounds also more even up to higher frequencies. The bass is wonderfull, the "space" between the instruments, voices, sounds is so much improved. Also my wife noticed it spontaniously.
I can play easily quite loud without noticing, must be the lower distortion levels.
Our agenda is busy at the moment, so complete measurements on and off axis has to wait a bit (requires a temporary "makeover" of the livingroom ;-)).
Very curious how the steep filters impact the off axis behaviour. (And the distortion) ( I like to measure to get more understanding. )
But i can show the measurements on axis used to validate the active xo in next post.
Congrats Jan! it’s also quite an advanced system you have. Looking forward to hearing more including your findings on filters etc.
cheers
Lars
cheers
Lars
Yes @lrisbo thanks, i am still surprised very positively about what i hear, so is my wife actually.
It is a baseline, i can play with xo configurations and instant switching using the acourate convolver.
But for now it is writing down what i did, and make sure i understand it. And complete the measurements of the baseline. And of course listening to music.
This in moments between holiday activities with grandchildren etc. ;-)
It is a baseline, i can play with xo configurations and instant switching using the acourate convolver.
But for now it is writing down what i did, and make sure i understand it. And complete the measurements of the baseline. And of course listening to music.
This in moments between holiday activities with grandchildren etc. ;-)
Some results, be it by being able to spend a little time in between being busy with short holidays, having grand-children over to stay, family visits etc ;-)
Using Acourate is getting better and better, still the points where i need to make a decision like frequency dependent windowing (FDW) settings, or lower and upper frequency for a XO branch definition, etc is still an area of trial and error.
The good thing though relative to passive xo is how quick a xo version is created. At the risk of focusing on a detail and loose sight of the total.
Anyhow, this version , put in place yesterday afternoon, appears to me as a new benchmark:
This is done with spl measurements of the individual drivers, and result combined in Acourate. Note: the SPL picture shows 2 sum's, the first one (slot 4) is one where the dealy of the woofer and mid are not corrected relative to the tweeter.
The second and thirth part is the corrected summation. The curves a result of FDW applied.
In a couple of weeks i will be able to measure the box as a whole, and also off-axis.
Listeing impressions : tonality sounds right, the near far and presence of ambience all come across fine, the dynamics, being able to focus on one instrument or voice, Also the stability of the sound stage.
What surprises me the most though with this linear filter approach is the observation that the room influence appears much less. It is there but it appears as if the direct sound is easily observed separate from the room standing waves and reverberation.
Something i have no clue why it is. But it makes me rethink the proximity effect as researched by David Griesinger.
Also for this particular aspect intersting to see the measurements of the box as a whole, and how that correlates with the observation.
So, i am still happy with the decision to go fully active and linear, it costs but i saved for it, as it took me much less time to get a first good result compared to the fully passive approach. But i need to be carefull not to spend loads of time on endless variations ;-)
Using Acourate is getting better and better, still the points where i need to make a decision like frequency dependent windowing (FDW) settings, or lower and upper frequency for a XO branch definition, etc is still an area of trial and error.
The good thing though relative to passive xo is how quick a xo version is created. At the risk of focusing on a detail and loose sight of the total.
Anyhow, this version , put in place yesterday afternoon, appears to me as a new benchmark:
This is done with spl measurements of the individual drivers, and result combined in Acourate. Note: the SPL picture shows 2 sum's, the first one (slot 4) is one where the dealy of the woofer and mid are not corrected relative to the tweeter.
The second and thirth part is the corrected summation. The curves a result of FDW applied.
In a couple of weeks i will be able to measure the box as a whole, and also off-axis.
Listeing impressions : tonality sounds right, the near far and presence of ambience all come across fine, the dynamics, being able to focus on one instrument or voice, Also the stability of the sound stage.
What surprises me the most though with this linear filter approach is the observation that the room influence appears much less. It is there but it appears as if the direct sound is easily observed separate from the room standing waves and reverberation.
Something i have no clue why it is. But it makes me rethink the proximity effect as researched by David Griesinger.
Also for this particular aspect intersting to see the measurements of the box as a whole, and how that correlates with the observation.
So, i am still happy with the decision to go fully active and linear, it costs but i saved for it, as it took me much less time to get a first good result compared to the fully passive approach. But i need to be carefull not to spend loads of time on endless variations ;-)
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Now summer holiday activities are doen ;-) I started to spend some time on my linear filtering. The first point i wanted to know is wether on 1 m distance the SPL and Phase are linear, while the creation was done with measurements on ~31cm.
Well:
Here you see the rsponse of the Medium and the Tweeter and the summed result in top window, middel window the phase, bottom window the pulse behaviour.
Well:
Here you see the rsponse of the Medium and the Tweeter and the summed result in top window, middel window the phase, bottom window the pulse behaviour.