Recently I dug out of my achives/collection some of my turntables, including a Technics SP-10 without base and arm, and Garrard 401 mounted on base with SME 3009 long arm.
I looked in E-Bay and was surprised to see 401's fetching US $500.00 !
I am currently in the process of giving my complete system a well needed birthday (revamp) and going back to be able to play vinyl again and I am interested to know -
Why is the Garrard 401 so well regarded,
or is it better to make a base for the SP-10 and fit the 3009 long arm or 3009 shorter arm (I have both).
Regards, Eric.
I looked in E-Bay and was surprised to see 401's fetching US $500.00 !
I am currently in the process of giving my complete system a well needed birthday (revamp) and going back to be able to play vinyl again and I am interested to know -
Why is the Garrard 401 so well regarded,
or is it better to make a base for the SP-10 and fit the 3009 long arm or 3009 shorter arm (I have both).
Regards, Eric.
Eric
let's see if my buddy Hartmut (hifidaddy) responds, he is the Garrard wizard and can provide setup help and detailed experience.
1st info, the Garrard is a friction wheel driven TT, it sounds fast and tough and makes a lot of fun. It is not completely honest however but it rocks and swings. It is a hedonist's TT: the late Sugano-san used a Garrard for auditioning his Koetsu cartridges.
I would combine the long SME3012 (3009 is the short one) with the Garrard and a very good MC (why not an Ortofon SPU ?) and have fun with it.
AFAIK, the Technics SP10 was one of the best direct drives ever made; it is a zero problem TT. Hint: make a basis for it and try it out with different tonearms (i could imagine there will be a DIY linear tracking tonearm project on this forum soon
)
DON'T sell anything on ebay until you learned how it worked. You might like to both.
let's see if my buddy Hartmut (hifidaddy) responds, he is the Garrard wizard and can provide setup help and detailed experience.
1st info, the Garrard is a friction wheel driven TT, it sounds fast and tough and makes a lot of fun. It is not completely honest however but it rocks and swings. It is a hedonist's TT: the late Sugano-san used a Garrard for auditioning his Koetsu cartridges.
I would combine the long SME3012 (3009 is the short one) with the Garrard and a very good MC (why not an Ortofon SPU ?) and have fun with it.
AFAIK, the Technics SP10 was one of the best direct drives ever made; it is a zero problem TT. Hint: make a basis for it and try it out with different tonearms (i could imagine there will be a DIY linear tracking tonearm project on this forum soon
)DON'T sell anything on ebay until you learned how it worked. You might like to both.
Garrard 401 experiences ?
"let's see if my buddy Hartmut (hifidaddy) responds, he is the Garrard wizard and can provide setup help and detailed experience.
1st info, the Garrard is a friction wheel driven TT, it sounds fast and tough and makes a lot of fun. It is not completely honest however but it rocks and swings. It is a hedonist's TT: the late Sugano-san used a Garrard for auditioning his Koetsu cartridges. "
Thanks, I look forward to some good owners/tweakers info and stories etc....
"I would combine the long SME3012 (3009 is the short one) with the Garrard and a very good MC (why not an Ortofon SPU ?) and have fun with it. "
Yes, the 3012 is on the Garrard base, and for now I have V-15 IV and Stantons - At least they are a reference I used to use.
"AFAIK, the Technics SP10 was one of the best direct drives ever made; it is a zero problem TT. Hint: make a basis for it and try it out with different tonearms "
Yes nice Japanese engineering, tough and reliable and must be the strongest TT motor ever made.
"i could imagine there will be a DIY linear tracking tonearm project on this forum soon "
Maybe such a project on my bench too.........I'm quietly getting inspired now.
Years ago, I made a new brass arm for a dual 1209 after I dropped it and broke it, from thin wall brass tubing tubing from a aero-modellers shop.
This worked really nicely at the time.
"DON'T sell anything on ebay until you learned how it worked. You might like to keep both."
Yes I have already decided that, I was just looking on ebay...
Regards, Eric.
"let's see if my buddy Hartmut (hifidaddy) responds, he is the Garrard wizard and can provide setup help and detailed experience.
1st info, the Garrard is a friction wheel driven TT, it sounds fast and tough and makes a lot of fun. It is not completely honest however but it rocks and swings. It is a hedonist's TT: the late Sugano-san used a Garrard for auditioning his Koetsu cartridges. "
Thanks, I look forward to some good owners/tweakers info and stories etc....
"I would combine the long SME3012 (3009 is the short one) with the Garrard and a very good MC (why not an Ortofon SPU ?) and have fun with it. "
Yes, the 3012 is on the Garrard base, and for now I have V-15 IV and Stantons - At least they are a reference I used to use.
"AFAIK, the Technics SP10 was one of the best direct drives ever made; it is a zero problem TT. Hint: make a basis for it and try it out with different tonearms "
Yes nice Japanese engineering, tough and reliable and must be the strongest TT motor ever made.
"i could imagine there will be a DIY linear tracking tonearm project on this forum soon "
Maybe such a project on my bench too.........I'm quietly getting inspired now.
Years ago, I made a new brass arm for a dual 1209 after I dropped it and broke it, from thin wall brass tubing tubing from a aero-modellers shop.
This worked really nicely at the time.
"DON'T sell anything on ebay until you learned how it worked. You might like to keep both."
Yes I have already decided that, I was just looking on ebay...
Regards, Eric.
mrfeedback said:
Hi Eric,
my buddy Bernhard already pointed out the most important aspects: the Garrard401 is really fun to listen to: imagine an extremely powerful flow of music pouring out of your discs.
There are lots of sites with informations on Garrard, e.g. the Garrard renovator Loricraft http://www.garrard501.com, and there is also a plinth design on the web. If you cannot make a plinth yourself, you can choose from half a dozen models if you are living in the UK. Just use a search engine to get lots of information.
I lived happily with a Garrard 401 from 1990 to 1997, when I changed to Platine Verdier and Scheu turntables. I had a dozen different tonearms on the Garrard, and even the E.T. 2.0 worked extraordinarily well with the Garrard.
Re the SP10: there has been a tuning article for the electronics board in the Hifiworld magazine some five years ago. Be sure to have a really solid plinth for the SP10, e.g. the original Obsidian plinth. It needs it to get substantial bass, otherwise it sounds too lightweight and lacks fun.
What do mean with long 3009 ? If you mean the 3012, it is of course better than the 3009, and if you mean the older version of 3009 with a longer tonearm back part, then it is metal knife edge bearing compared to the later shorter 3009, which has plastic knife edge bearings. The metal knife edge bearing variant is preferable, as it has a greater range of tracking force and antiscating adjustment, too.
regards,
Hartmut
oldie but a goodie
Hello Hartmut and thanks for your reply.
It looks like I got lucky - the 3012 is with blackened hard steel knife edges, and is mounted on the Garrard plinth - quite heavy with nice hardwood sides . (blackbean I think).
I've just had 401 apart and I must say that I'm well impressed with the engineering - nice old English precision indeed.
The platter is most unusually dead - the tiny amount of ring is nice sounding too.
I'm not too sure about the vertical thrust bearing - mine is a little worn and scored, and idler type drive can be bettered I'm sure.
I read a comment mentioning using 1/4" audio tape as a drive belt, and with some small modification the Garrard could be converted to belt drive by the looks.
Have you tried or heard discussion of 1/4" tape as a belt on this or other platters, and heard of their merits ?
Some info I was told eons ago is that the best thrust bearing is made by using Ebony wood (those old ornamental elephants have a use) and whale oil as the lubricant.
To Australian readers - does anybody have any experience of Australian made Commonwealth Broadcast turntable ?
I have one of these also - it weighs at least double the 401 !
Regards, eric
Hello Hartmut and thanks for your reply.
It looks like I got lucky - the 3012 is with blackened hard steel knife edges, and is mounted on the Garrard plinth - quite heavy with nice hardwood sides . (blackbean I think).
I've just had 401 apart and I must say that I'm well impressed with the engineering - nice old English precision indeed.
The platter is most unusually dead - the tiny amount of ring is nice sounding too.
I'm not too sure about the vertical thrust bearing - mine is a little worn and scored, and idler type drive can be bettered I'm sure.
I read a comment mentioning using 1/4" audio tape as a drive belt, and with some small modification the Garrard could be converted to belt drive by the looks.
Have you tried or heard discussion of 1/4" tape as a belt on this or other platters, and heard of their merits ?
Some info I was told eons ago is that the best thrust bearing is made by using Ebony wood (those old ornamental elephants have a use) and whale oil as the lubricant.
To Australian readers - does anybody have any experience of Australian made Commonwealth Broadcast turntable ?
I have one of these also - it weighs at least double the 401 !
Regards, eric
I have a Garrard 301 (grease Bearing ) and recently purchased a Commonwealth, for about Aust$60.
Paid Aust$30 for the Garrard at a Trash and Treasure (Flea Market), the motor locks looked like they had never been removed.
I have read that you should remove the magnetic speed governor/Aluminium disc and use an AC speed controller, seems the Aluminium disc rings and the system strains the motor. Might Have been an old issue Sound Practices Said to use a 60Watt light Bulb to slow the motor Down??
For a plinth I have been considering <a href="http://www.spiritdrums.com/snare/timber.html">Cooktown Ironwood,</a> at 1220Kg/M<sup>3</sup> should be quite inert.
Stumbled across a box of sealed Technics Carts, EPC451Cs, EPC270CKs, EPC955ED (mc?), EPC206CKs, a couple of month ago, I hope the suspension in them has survived.
One day I will get a tonearm and will be able to comment on the sound.
<hr width="95%" align=center>
<center><a href="http://users.senet.com.au/~poneill/CE_12D3.html"><img src="http://users.senet.com.au/~poneill/12d_1.jpg" ></a>
<font face="Fantasy">Commonwealth Turntable</font></center>
Regards
James
) and recently purchased a Commonwealth, for about Aust$60.Paid Aust$30 for the Garrard at a Trash and Treasure (Flea Market), the motor locks looked like they had never been removed.
I have read that you should remove the magnetic speed governor/Aluminium disc and use an AC speed controller, seems the Aluminium disc rings and the system strains the motor. Might Have been an old issue Sound Practices Said to use a 60Watt light Bulb to slow the motor Down??
For a plinth I have been considering <a href="http://www.spiritdrums.com/snare/timber.html">Cooktown Ironwood,</a> at 1220Kg/M<sup>3</sup> should be quite inert.
Stumbled across a box of sealed Technics Carts, EPC451Cs, EPC270CKs, EPC955ED (mc?), EPC206CKs, a couple of month ago, I hope the suspension in them has survived.
One day I will get a tonearm and will be able to comment on the sound.
<hr width="95%" align=center>
<center><a href="http://users.senet.com.au/~poneill/CE_12D3.html"><img src="http://users.senet.com.au/~poneill/12d_1.jpg" ></a>
<font face="Fantasy">Commonwealth Turntable</font></center>
Regards
James
Hello TVI, thanks for the photo.
The commonwealth is a classic in its own right I think.
Hope you find a suitable arm so you can try it out.
I need to do the same to my commonwealth.
Regarding woods, go for high silica content - I expect the cooktown ironwood to be in this category.
I must go to my work now and fix modern jap stuff so I can pay for this hobby !.
Regards, Eric.
PS - I bought the SP-10 at auction for $8.00, and years ago for a five minute favour that I did not charge for, I was given the 401 and commonwealth - instant karma ?
I just have to spend a little time now to set them up - This might be a turntable collection to die for !
My next project is to give my Kef concerto and transmission line cabinets a birthday (renovate/improve), hook up my Jands JC-1000 CS, and see what I get.
This will take some time though, but I'll keep you posted - eric.
The commonwealth is a classic in its own right I think.
Hope you find a suitable arm so you can try it out.
I need to do the same to my commonwealth.
Regarding woods, go for high silica content - I expect the cooktown ironwood to be in this category.
I must go to my work now and fix modern jap stuff so I can pay for this hobby !.
Regards, Eric.
PS - I bought the SP-10 at auction for $8.00, and years ago for a five minute favour that I did not charge for, I was given the 401 and commonwealth - instant karma ?
I just have to spend a little time now to set them up - This might be a turntable collection to die for !
My next project is to give my Kef concerto and transmission line cabinets a birthday (renovate/improve), hook up my Jands JC-1000 CS, and see what I get.
This will take some time though, but I'll keep you posted - eric.
Hello folks,
how curious are you all about a DIY tonearm, maybe a linear tracker? Particularly those needing an arm for the Commonwhealth thing?
Could be i have something. Mechanical, no air supply. Must try it out 1st but if you hold you wallet for a little while instead of buying a tonearm tomorrow ....
how curious are you all about a DIY tonearm, maybe a linear tracker? Particularly those needing an arm for the Commonwhealth thing?
Could be i have something. Mechanical, no air supply. Must try it out 1st but if you hold you wallet for a little while instead of buying a tonearm tomorrow ....
Re: Another Classic ?
Eric,
yes, they are sought after. Among insiders the V15IV is reputed to be the best and all V15V derivates are said to sound spectacular but artificial. They were meant to meet MC competition.
Would like to try out both IV and V myself.
Had a glued V15III for years, loved it.
Loading: just use 47K input impedance for an MM cartridge, keep the cable capacitance ALAP and then tinker around with different capacitors in the 50-500pF range in parallel to the 47k to fine-shape the treble and upper mids to your taste. Use NP0 ceramics or silver micas if you can get your hands on them.
Originally posted by mrfeedback
Sounds like these are sought after too !
If I had a spare I would gladly give it to you.
Do you have recomendations on homebrew preamp and loading values ?
How well does the V-15 compare to modern MM cartridges ?
Eric,
yes, they are sought after. Among insiders the V15IV is reputed to be the best and all V15V derivates are said to sound spectacular but artificial. They were meant to meet MC competition.
Would like to try out both IV and V myself.
Had a glued V15III for years, loved it.
Loading: just use 47K input impedance for an MM cartridge, keep the cable capacitance ALAP and then tinker around with different capacitors in the 50-500pF range in parallel to the 47k to fine-shape the treble and upper mids to your taste. Use NP0 ceramics or silver micas if you can get your hands on them.
Hello Bernard and all,
Yes I am interested to hear about a decent linear tracker arm.
Sounds like a well worthwhile project to me.
Re Shure V-15 : Yes, I have been told in the past that they require quite heavy capacitive loading or else they will exhibit a pretty strong electrical resonance peak past 20kHz, causing exaggerated HF response - Hence your comment to adjust loading to give nice tasting upper response.
So many things to play with and so little time !
Regards, Eric.
Yes I am interested to hear about a decent linear tracker arm.
Sounds like a well worthwhile project to me.
Re Shure V-15 : Yes, I have been told in the past that they require quite heavy capacitive loading or else they will exhibit a pretty strong electrical resonance peak past 20kHz, causing exaggerated HF response - Hence your comment to adjust loading to give nice tasting upper response.
So many things to play with and so little time !
Regards, Eric.
We recently became the owners of a Garrard 401 plinth system with a SME Model 3012 series II tone arm.
We have the instruction book for a SME Model 2000 Plinth System which shows 2 buttoms (rectangular), while ours has 3 dials on it ( On-off, Speed control and 33.45,78 switch)
We are just wondering which model number we have.
We also would like to find out what the value of it might be.
Can anybody help us.
Marten1
We have the instruction book for a SME Model 2000 Plinth System which shows 2 buttoms (rectangular), while ours has 3 dials on it ( On-off, Speed control and 33.45,78 switch)
We are just wondering which model number we have.
We also would like to find out what the value of it might be.
Can anybody help us.
Marten1
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