Gainclone vs tube

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#21
navin said:
Does not every amp go through this sort of trial and test with various components.
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Hi Navin,

If you mean listening tests of various parts done by the manufacturer, probably to some extent. But considering the limitations manufacturers face in bringing a product to market at a given price point, I don't think most would do very extensive parts listening on all but their higher-tier and statement products.

Also, there's no accounting for taste. Using the overwrought cooking and food analogy, I like my coffee full bodied and rich with sugar and cream, while someone else might like a lighter more acidic roast taken black. By trying out a number of different parts in different combinations, I've hit upon two permutations in my preamp that really make the music sing for me. And they weren't the ones chosen by the manufacturer.

To really get a grip on the differences each of these parts brings to the table, I've been slowly testing and listening to these parts changes over the course of 5 years, give or take. I've had a chance to live with each of the changes I've made for a while. In most cases I felt ambivalent or even mildly irritated while listening to music. In those other two instance I described, I couldn't wait to get home from work to put on some tunes.

While the circuit is likely the most crucial factor in the sound, different parts do contribute different sonic signatures to the mix - enough so that the resulting system can either move you or turn you off, or something in between.

I did change the internal components of the Dynaco ST-35. At the time Holco's were the were the best affordable choice, so I replaced the Allen-Bradley carbon composition resistors with those. Later, I replaced the old bluish-green stock film coupling caps with Auricaps. I felt that both of these changes made a significant improvement to the sound of the amp. The Dynaco was actually bought for my brother's use, so I didn't make any changes beyond that. Perhaps some soft-recovery diodes in the future.

Best,
KT
 
#23
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#24
i do agree that a gainclone power amp mated to a tube preamp can be a great combination.

whole amp can be quite compact and the tube 1st stage can remove the clinicalness associtated with most solid state sound.

Q: with todays high signal sources (ipods and cds) the market for RIAA preamps is really getting small . right?

In this case one should/could consider a hybrid amp with a passive input selector and volume control mated to a tube stage mated to a chip amp power stage.

No OPTs. Tubey sound. Maybe the best of both worlds? huh? One coudl even offer a control allowing the user to dial in the ammount of tubeyness one wants. Sorta like "add salt to taste".
 
#25
Yes Navin, a good approach. Good DIY tube amps with top iron don't sound tubey in my experience though. They just appear more harmonically complete. I do appreciate the difficulty and cost complexities of achieving such nontheless. That is why I have built Zens and GCs too. Driven by a transparent tube first gain stage can add benefits as you describe. Have done that always. Still I cant overlook the fact that a proper tube amp stands a sonic step higher in my humble experience. Many talks have been trying to explain why. I just remember Hiraga saying that an electron travels in empty space 7 times faster than in a solid. Maybe further analysis is not needed since we are talking distinct physics operating domains. Simplicity was a tube camp weapon too but even a Zen could not compete. So differences must lay in plain physics afterall.
 
#26
salas said:
Yes Navin, a good approach. Good DIY tube amps with top iron don't sound tubey in my experience though. They just appear more harmonically complete..... I just remember Hiraga saying that an electron travels in empty space 7 times faster than in a solid. Maybe further analysis is not needed since we are talking distinct physics operating domains. Simplicity was a tube camp weapon too but even a Zen could not compete. So differences must lay in plain physics afterall.
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maybe i used the wrong word.

i dont know if the speed or the distance travelled by electrons has anything to do with it. i wish someone had conclusive proof to this effect.

i am in the middle of my 1st tube power amp and crossover thanks to all the help i have got from this forum and once i get that experience under my belt i would like to investigate a good hybrid (tube-chip) design. Are there any DIY designs for these sort of amps?
 
#27
"Alas, i have found that only the truly rare systems and products offer this type of rhythmically musical freedom. The Audio Note Ongaku, the Clearaudio Insider Gold MC cartridge, and now the 47 Laboratories 4706 Gaincard can be added to this very small list."

Gaincard review

This review should be no news here, but perhaps a reminder.

Personally I don't buy into this tube vs. whatever. Once the quality is there, it all comes down to personal taste. So by saying tubes, or whatever, are superior you are invariably lying to a lot of people.
 
#28
phn said:
Personally I don't buy into this tube vs. whatever. Once the quality is there, it all comes down to personal taste. So by saying tubes, or whatever, are superior you are invariably lying to a lot of people.
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I hope I did not mean to say that tube is better than gainclone or viceversa. I just wished there was conclusive proof that offered such a prognosis.
 
#29
I hope I did not mean to say that tube is better than gainclone or viceversa. I just wished there was conclusive proof that offered such a prognosis.
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No. That's exactly my point. What's true for you isn't necessarily true for me. That's the reason we have tubes and chips, full-range speakers and whatnots.
 
#31
I am most excited by these posts, my valve buffered lm3886 is nearing completion, tonight I installed the PSU's tommorrow I must just finalise the board for the amp itself, (basicaly needs to be etched and soldered).

Drill the hole, mount the valve and do some listening. 🙂

Took me two months to get this far, and figure out how to integrate my desired circuits with the wiring of the amp I was rebuilding.

So far it has 4 selectable sources with LED indicators
Ecc88 valve buffer which can be switched to the lineout output to change it to a pre-output
A/B speaker selector
Switched and unswitched power outlets

Everything seems to work fine including the softstart etc.
My face lights up every time I walk past it.
 
#33
Nordic said:
I am most excited by these posts, my valve buffered lm3886 is nearing completion, tonight I installed the PSU's tommorrow I must just finalise the board for the amp itself, (basicaly needs to be etched and soldered)....So far it has 4 selectable sources with LED indicators
Ecc88 valve buffer which can be switched to the lineout output to change it to a pre-output
A/B speaker selector
Switched and unswitched power outlets
Click to expand...

Any chance this schematic will become available in the public domain?
 
#34
Actualy its all public domain, I used the Valve buffer from Franz's VBIGC, and Digi's Inverted LM3886 circuit (because it was easy to copy the boards, by looking at the pictures). I basicaly just had to redraw the boards and move things about a bit as my case has very little space inside, also I am using Carlos's snubberised non regulated PSU circuit....

Would have been done by now, but we keep having power outages....

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48118&highlight=

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38506
 
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