Thanks for your input.
My main concern was the B52 Horn and the DE250, I know for a fact from the Econowave thread in Techtalk that the horn does go down comfortably to 1000hz but anything under that your pushing it. But it's good to hear that the DE250 can be played lower for home application. At least I can experiment and see how it goes.
Yes, everything is CNC milled and ready to go but upgrading is simple. I just CNC another front baffle and will find a new appropriate horn and compression driver. I will keep the Deltalite 2015 as the cabinet has been designed for that particular woofer.
My Marchand crossover has a digital frequency read out, I can easily change the crossover point take my measurement(Audiolense) sweeps at various frequencies and then change and add the correct convolution accordingly. That should give me an idea of what crossover works best, then I could add my sub or even go digital crossovers.
My main concern was the B52 Horn and the DE250, I know for a fact from the Econowave thread in Techtalk that the horn does go down comfortably to 1000hz but anything under that your pushing it. But it's good to hear that the DE250 can be played lower for home application. At least I can experiment and see how it goes.
Yes, everything is CNC milled and ready to go but upgrading is simple. I just CNC another front baffle and will find a new appropriate horn and compression driver. I will keep the Deltalite 2015 as the cabinet has been designed for that particular woofer.
My Marchand crossover has a digital frequency read out, I can easily change the crossover point take my measurement(Audiolense) sweeps at various frequencies and then change and add the correct convolution accordingly. That should give me an idea of what crossover works best, then I could add my sub or even go digital crossovers.
It's not too hard to figure out how low your CD can go. Simply decide how loud you want to be able to play, set to that level, and measure distortion (Using an Omnimic or REW or the like). You can back the mic far away as you won't care about reflections, but you will care about overloading the mic. Keep lowering the crossover frequency and you'll quickly see where the CD starts to strain as distortion will quickly rise.
Might be helpful to link to that post, as this kind of conclusion is unusual in isolation. Maybe it works the driver too hard, maybe horn loading ends, or maybe the vertical collapses. The result depends.
How do I figure out how the horn loading ends?
I mean the concept itself is new to me, or just something that I have read but not to familiar with it.
Some of the co designers have stated that point, I have to find it. If I do I will link it in.
I mean the concept itself is new to me, or just something that I have read but not to familiar with it.
Some of the co designers have stated that point, I have to find it. If I do I will link it in.
Simply measure the frequency response at different angles (vertical and horizontal - but with this horn the vertical will be the first to collapse so you could just do the vertical). You can use this to calculate directivity index and you'll see that the directivity index drops like a stone at some frequency.
Not frequency. Directivity.
With a constant directivity waveguide (for example, a 90° x 90° coverage waveguide) at any given frequency you would expect that as you rotate the speaker across ±45° the amplitude does not change. As you go past 45° you would expect the amplitude to start dropping. As the horn stops acting like a horn, because the frequency is too low, this no longer happens. You can consider that point to be the point where loading ends.
With a constant directivity waveguide (for example, a 90° x 90° coverage waveguide) at any given frequency you would expect that as you rotate the speaker across ±45° the amplitude does not change. As you go past 45° you would expect the amplitude to start dropping. As the horn stops acting like a horn, because the frequency is too low, this no longer happens. You can consider that point to be the point where loading ends.
Horn loading and waveguide directivity are two separate things. Loading is about the narrow throat and the driver building pressure there. Waveguides tend to open quickly in contrast to this, but both conditions still exist. They are important for different reasons with one being more critical in a waveguide. This is why I suggested your reference to the post on the other forum had insufficient information.
You say directivity not frequency but aren't we comparing the amplitude of the frequency at each degrees? Yes, figure out directivity but with frequency drop off.
Trdat- Well if that's what you mean then I guess we are saying the same thing. I suppose I misunderstood you in post 46.
That's great, cause if it was something different then I would have had to dig deeper to get the understanding right.
But yeh I thought i had the idea.
Thanks.
By the way, today I actually tried my set up after finishing the cabinets. Unfortunately my XM66 crossover has a problem so I got to take a look at it or send it back so I had to use my DBX 234xl which has a herrendous hiss, so bad that I couldn't even take a measurement for my DSP as the signal to noise ratio was in the negative range.
Anyway even without a measurement correction it sounded okay, yeh of course nothing special and constrained but average. If my Marchand crossover is not a simple fix I will try with DSP crossovers but I am keen to just get a feel with 2 way active crossover first.
This is all at a crossover at 1600hz as all I got a is a 20uf cap for tweeter protection, so when I get more caps ill try different crossovers.
Does anyone know if that is normal for the DBX? Perhaps cause I'm using sensitive speakers the hiss is exaggerated or is it that the hiss wont be heard with loud music in a PA environment. Or can it be that my apartment is not grounded?
But yeh I thought i had the idea.
Thanks.
By the way, today I actually tried my set up after finishing the cabinets. Unfortunately my XM66 crossover has a problem so I got to take a look at it or send it back so I had to use my DBX 234xl which has a herrendous hiss, so bad that I couldn't even take a measurement for my DSP as the signal to noise ratio was in the negative range.
Anyway even without a measurement correction it sounded okay, yeh of course nothing special and constrained but average. If my Marchand crossover is not a simple fix I will try with DSP crossovers but I am keen to just get a feel with 2 way active crossover first.
This is all at a crossover at 1600hz as all I got a is a 20uf cap for tweeter protection, so when I get more caps ill try different crossovers.
Does anyone know if that is normal for the DBX? Perhaps cause I'm using sensitive speakers the hiss is exaggerated or is it that the hiss wont be heard with loud music in a PA environment. Or can it be that my apartment is not grounded?
Gain structure?
Well there is the main gain -12 to +12 and then a gain for each frequency range again -12 to +12.
After your post I tried with the gain very low and to no avail, still unsuccessful measurement.
Is that what you meant?
Well there is the main gain -12 to +12 and then a gain for each frequency range again -12 to +12.
After your post I tried with the gain very low and to no avail, still unsuccessful measurement.
Is that what you meant?
Say you have a signal to put into a line level device then a power amplifier with a volume control.
Example 1, you put a volume control before the line level device. The low signal is close to its noise floor. There is nothing you can do to fix it.
Example 2, you put full line level signal into the first device, signal to noise is good. Even when you use the volume control after it, the S/N stays good.
Example 1, you put a volume control before the line level device. The low signal is close to its noise floor. There is nothing you can do to fix it.
Example 2, you put full line level signal into the first device, signal to noise is good. Even when you use the volume control after it, the S/N stays good.
Its my PC>DAC(no volume at the moment)>amplifier(no volume)>speakers
Is mine number one or two?
I'm a little confused.
What is the correct order for my signal to noise ratio to be decent?
Is mine number one or two?
I'm a little confused.
What is the correct order for my signal to noise ratio to be decent?
Considering it was fine before the swap, and assuming you've connected it right, despite the grounding I'd ask.. do you have your PC turned right down to allow for the sensitive speakers.. or is the DCX broken or misconfigured.
I am going to ground my apartment soon.
Some weird things are happening that are beyond me, the low output on the Marchand crossover isn't working with my NC252MP during the bi amp operation(otherwise working fine) while it works fine with my Chinese 900 watt amp. But with the DBX the NC252MP works fine during bi amp.
Anyway, yes the Marchand crossover was working fine and no hiss in my previous standard set up using it for sub woofer duties. And when I try the Marchand and the DBX both have the same amount of hiss during bi amping. Perhaps the Marchand a tad bit less but either way a lot of hiss and hum. So the DBX can't be broken cause the Marchand XM66 is just as bad.
When you say my PC turned down you mean from the volume? Well its not making a difference.
I even tried it with all XLR from my Preamp(Marantz) and still same amount of hiss and hum. Hiss through tweeters and hum through woofer. And I would of connected it correctly.
Some weird things are happening that are beyond me, the low output on the Marchand crossover isn't working with my NC252MP during the bi amp operation(otherwise working fine) while it works fine with my Chinese 900 watt amp. But with the DBX the NC252MP works fine during bi amp.
Anyway, yes the Marchand crossover was working fine and no hiss in my previous standard set up using it for sub woofer duties. And when I try the Marchand and the DBX both have the same amount of hiss during bi amping. Perhaps the Marchand a tad bit less but either way a lot of hiss and hum. So the DBX can't be broken cause the Marchand XM66 is just as bad.
When you say my PC turned down you mean from the volume? Well its not making a difference.
I even tried it with all XLR from my Preamp(Marantz) and still same amount of hiss and hum. Hiss through tweeters and hum through woofer. And I would of connected it correctly.
The volume setting on the PC shouldn't come with noise, but the signal would be reduced.
However staying close to the issue, your old crossover had a failure. It's possible it took out something it was connected to.
However staying close to the issue, your old crossover had a failure. It's possible it took out something it was connected to.
@Trdat ... how is the DAC receiving its power? Wall wort or from the PC? If it's from the wall AC try using the PC's USB port for power.
I tried two DAC's one my home theatre and the other a Topping D10 which is USB powered. No difference, perhaps a tad bit more with the Marantz.
My apartment isn't grounded. I am guessing(wild guess) it's a ground loop issue as its a strong hum through the woofer and a hiss through the tweeter. And with both crossover units I get the same amount of hiss/hum.
I got to play around with the outlets sometimes it helps. My Marantz had a slight hum and I can't remember what I did but changing the power to another outlet helped. It might of been the computer's outlets can't remember.
Either way I have to consider grounding my apartment or using a hum isolator or both.
Any other recommendations would be appreciated.
My apartment isn't grounded. I am guessing(wild guess) it's a ground loop issue as its a strong hum through the woofer and a hiss through the tweeter. And with both crossover units I get the same amount of hiss/hum.
I got to play around with the outlets sometimes it helps. My Marantz had a slight hum and I can't remember what I did but changing the power to another outlet helped. It might of been the computer's outlets can't remember.
Either way I have to consider grounding my apartment or using a hum isolator or both.
Any other recommendations would be appreciated.