Very good points. Your question is, do I listen at high volume often? Not too much, but probably louder than most. In the 80's. I was that Metal head with hair everywhere. I've been a rock musician all of my life. And I have NEVER owned an extremely dynamic system. I have owned some amazing 5 ft tall reference monsters. But they do not offer the same experience Pro drivers do. The only reason I have never pursued the Pro route before, is I have never heard a tweeter/horn implementation which sounded natural enough to me .... until I lucked upon some old Heil AMT monopoles. Which will keep up with Pro driver volumes rather easily, when crossed over properly.
As far as smaller speakers, and their own beautiful traits ... I agree. And that is why I am in the middle of a bookshelf 2 way high end RAAL, Scan build. Those will be my "nice sound" speakers .... and I get it. You need those as well!
Faital 6LF200 ..... If you are willing, here is a good opportunity for me to learn a little.
While I get that a lot of people like this driver, I would like to know why anyone would particularly choose it, over one of these, higher efficiency drivers, with good FR ?
PRV Audio 6MR500-NDY-4 6-1/2" Neodymium Midrange Woofer 4 Ohm
B&C 6MDN44 6-1/2" Neodymium Midrange Speaker
B&C 6PEV13 6-1/2" Midrange Speaker
And while funds is not the primary concern, here is an inexpensive midrange, which MAY show a smoother FR than any of these other drivers!
Eminence Alpha-6A 6" Midrange 8 Ohm
While I get that a lot of people like this driver, I would like to know why anyone would particularly choose it, over one of these, higher efficiency drivers, with good FR ?
PRV Audio 6MR500-NDY-4 6-1/2" Neodymium Midrange Woofer 4 Ohm
B&C 6MDN44 6-1/2" Neodymium Midrange Speaker
B&C 6PEV13 6-1/2" Midrange Speaker
And while funds is not the primary concern, here is an inexpensive midrange, which MAY show a smoother FR than any of these other drivers!
Eminence Alpha-6A 6" Midrange 8 Ohm
Last edited:
No one has mentioned excursion.
Active or passive aside, if my memory serves me well - driver excursion increases 4 x for every octave down. There are formulas / various spreadsheets showing excursion for a given power input (regardless of how the driver is filtered - actively or passively)
Most systems are woofer excursion limited (assuming they are not asking too low a crossover point or slope of a tweeter or limited xmax midrange).
If you are a no bass music fan, no problem. If drum and bass is your thing - check excursion.
Active or passive aside, if my memory serves me well - driver excursion increases 4 x for every octave down. There are formulas / various spreadsheets showing excursion for a given power input (regardless of how the driver is filtered - actively or passively)
Most systems are woofer excursion limited (assuming they are not asking too low a crossover point or slope of a tweeter or limited xmax midrange).
If you are a no bass music fan, no problem. If drum and bass is your thing - check excursion.
I am confused ... These are going to play from 300 to 3500 hz .... How is excursion going to be an issue?
The 12" woofer will handle excursion duty
Flaxxer,I am confused ... These are going to play from 300 to 3500 hz .... How is excursion going to be an issue?
The 12" woofer will handle excursion duty
The 6.5" drivers you just mentioned a few posts back vary from .6 to 3.5mm Xmax (linear excursion).
Doubling excursion results in 6 dB more headroom, the clean dynamic range difference between the B&C 6PEV13 and the Alpha 6A is more than 12 dB in the lower range of your operation range.
Whether you want or "need" that much headroom is up to you, but as a rock musician you have heard plenty of music way louder than what a 6.5" with only .6mm can produce at 300 Hz.
Art
Typically you build a speaker with a maximum SPL in mind. So looking to see that each driver can achieve the desired SPL within it's linear range and power rating is really all I do. Amplifiers are cheap, so what if you need 5W or 35W for the midrange. High efficiency drivers typically have lower mass cones and lower xmax. So expect some trade off in flat frequency response with the lower mass cone, more flexing and allows reflections to come back through the cone. The lower xmax will limit the max SPL at low end of the frequency range for the driver.
Thank you everyone. Your answers were what I am thinking. I just wanted to make sure. So now, with this info, that leaves me a DIZZYING array of possibilities with Pro midrange drivers to choose from. And I don't know how any of them sound LOL. I think I will pick the prettiest driver, with workable specs. B&C seems to cost more. But I couldn't find it written where it was any better. Faital is lower sensitivity. That leaves PRV and Emminence. Yay... narrowed down only 20 driver choices
If you are going the pro route, as some of these indicate, you should also look at the BMS, with the advantage being they have shorting rings for lower harmonic distortion.
It's about to get interesting.... I called a online dealer today, which has all of the brands we've been discussing, and spoke with someone VERY familiar with all of these drivers, and how they sound. He told me one particular driver is just above the rest for what I am doing. Says he thinks it's THE BEST sounding Pro midrange, without considering budget. It has 9mm excursion.
B&C 6MD38 6-1/2" Midrange Speaker
So now it gets interesting
B&C 6MD38 6-1/2" Midrange Speaker
So now it gets interesting
Last edited:
I also need to clarify a mistake on my part. It took me until this morning to finally see there is a Faital 6FE 100 and 200. I was stuck believing these were the same 91 db efficiency model 100.
So technically, yes, the 6FE200 can work. But the B&C was recommended above it, by the tech whom has used both.
So technically, yes, the 6FE200 can work. But the B&C was recommended above it, by the tech whom has used both.
Xmax is only 2mm of the B&C 6MD38 compared to the 4.67mm "inflated" Faital 6FE200 spec.
So I would assume the Faital will be better for listening at high volume.
The Le of the B&C is almost half of the Faital so it might sound more precise in theory (lower qts also).
FR looks more flat on the Faital.
The high xmax of the Faital is also good thing to have.
And, and, and ...
Hard decision.
But I think I am on team 6FE200 also.
Offtopic: Personally I would just use the Fane Sovereign 12-250TC for mids/highs. Since I heard this speaker Multi-way doesn`t make any sense anymore to me. It`s just a little bass-shy below 80hz, but add a good woofer and be done.
So I would assume the Faital will be better for listening at high volume.
The Le of the B&C is almost half of the Faital so it might sound more precise in theory (lower qts also).
FR looks more flat on the Faital.
The high xmax of the Faital is also good thing to have.
And, and, and ...
Hard decision.
But I think I am on team 6FE200 also.
Offtopic: Personally I would just use the Fane Sovereign 12-250TC for mids/highs. Since I heard this speaker Multi-way doesn`t make any sense anymore to me. It`s just a little bass-shy below 80hz, but add a good woofer and be done.
Nope ... that is a typo. If you click on specs, it shows it has 9mm of Xmax.
Xmax +- 2 mm in the manufacturer PDF.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-651-bc-speakers-6md38-specifications.pdf
With the stated magnetic gap height and winding depth there is no way for 9mm xmax, also the surround won`t be able to handle it without breakage.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-651-bc-speakers-6md38-specifications.pdf
With the stated magnetic gap height and winding depth there is no way for 9mm xmax, also the surround won`t be able to handle it without breakage.
Not really regarding given specs.
xmax is stated as one direction movement normally.
But in total can be seen as 4mm which really doesn`t say more.
Xmax
Room effects, reflections, etc...
Maybe the "psychoacoustic" 350hz dip on the Faital will sound better.
Who knows...
So, enclosure, room, driver tolerances,...
I wouldn`t worry... yet.
Xlim or Xmech are mechanical limitations of a loudspeaker- some portion of the suspension or voice coil can't be driven further without damage. They are often not included in specifications, but when they are, they often are given as a peak-to-peak number which technically needs to be divided by 2 for the actual specification.
Xvar is a (one way) measured linear response B&C uses, it can be more or less than the Xmax for their drivers. Like Xmax, it can be considered the limit of reasonably "clean" response.
"These limits are customarily indicated by Xmax, the maximum linear excursion. This value is typically measured according to the AES2-1984 standard, corresponding to a maximum of 10% total harmonic distortion (THD) with a sinusoidal signal (though most manufacturers, including B&C, now typically provide data for Linear Mathematical Xmax, not measured Xmax). Recent research shows that this method can yield ambiguous results, and even different numerical values for the same loudspeaker. The main limit of this measurement is that it looks at the output signal instead of the physical features of the driver itself. On the contrary, the most up-to-date instruments for distortion analysis can measure the variations in loudspeaker parameters when they are fed with high-level signals. In this way, an excursion limit can be fixed, beyond which the parameter’s variation becomes excessive.
The “X var” value reported in our data (generally after the traditional “Xmax” value) is measured this way. Beyond this excursion limit, the magnetic field seen by the voice coil, or the total suspension compliance, or both, drops to less than 50% of their small signal value, producing high distortion levels, strong variations from small signal behavior and power compression. The new technique yields different results from the standard measurement based on THD. B&C Speakers believes that this added information gives a more accurate and reliable description on loudspeakers behavior in actual operating conditions."
Art
Last edited:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.