Fullrange OB shootout experimentation system - subjective first impressions

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gregulator

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Joined 2021
natursound.com
#1
I posted on Reddit but also posting here for this audience:

503E4ED7-F2F7-492F-8F54-0DF64EC5A3B7.jpeg


I’ve been having fun trying out different fullrange drivers in a janky prototype OB setup.
Drivers & initial subjective impressions:

SB Acoustics SB65WBAC25-4 2.5" Full Range - Piece of junk, sounds tinny and distorted.

SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 8" Paper Full Range - Biggest sound and most efficient of the bunch, but the least refined and very harsh/fatiguing in the treble. I don’t think I could live with it.

Markaudio Alpair-7MS Full Range - Best treble of the bunch with wide dispersion. Works great as a tweeter. My new favorite tweeter - better than Bliesma t34-a I think and significantly cheaper. Does not work fullrange at my preferred listening levels (moderate to somewhat loud). Sounds thin & distorted in the bass/mids.

Markaudio Alpair-11MS Full Range - OK all around. Alpair-7ms has better treble. Maop10.2 has better mids. Complex passages sound a little muddy.

Markaudio Maop 10.2 Full Range - Best mids & overall clarity. Vocals are especially great. Treble is lacking. Kinda mellow/bland sounding.

Misco Venturo 21” driver w/ 10mH inductor (supplementing bass) - extremely efficient with high EBP, which is needed for OB bass. I slightly prefer the Peerless 18” FSL-1830R06-08 for sound quality, but this wins for efficiency, allowing the fullrange units to be used unattenuated.

I like my long-standing favorites the Eton Arcosia 4” and 7” more than any of these SB and Markaudio drivers, BUT they are much more expensive, aren’t really fullrange, and are hard to find these days. The Arcosia drivers have better detail & clarity, especially during complex/layered musical passages, and are more euphonic overall.

My best results so far has been running 4 drivers in an WMTF wiring with the Misco 21”(sub bass <60hz 1o), Alpair11ms (bass/mid < 600hz 1o), Alpair7ms (treble > 10khz 1o), Maop10.2 (fullrange). It sounds pretty freaking amazing actually. Much better than any single driver or FAST arrangement.

None of the drivers have been broken in.
 
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#3
Interesting thread. Similar question as BasicHiFi. What do you use to control so there is a fair comparison. I measured and recorded sound clips from some of the above drivers in a controlled sealed Nautaloss spiral cabinet which measures similar to an infinite baffle speaker coupled with a woofer in a FAST config with 250Hz crossover.

The SB65WBAC25-4 was one of the top ranked drivers based on listener votes. It seems some of the drivers you like, might have a bit more “flavor” added in the treble, and that’s fine. It’s personal preference of course.

One of the surprising top finalists included an OEM Alpine full range from a Jeep. Only available from cad dealer repair shops. The $10 TC9FD and its sibling the SS 10F/8424 took top marks though. Many feel they sound dead and lifeless but that’s because they are neutral and don’t have any “hot sauce added”. 🙂

Here are my threads documenting the drivers studies and voted on:

Subjective Blind Testing of Fullrange Drivers by xrk971
Round 1:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html

Round 2:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-3in-5in-drivers-round-2-a-2.html

Round 3:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-3-a.html

Round 4:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html

Round 5:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-2in-3-5in-drivers-round-5-a.html

Round 6:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-a.html
 
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#6
Drivers all over the place, no break in of them, and calling the SB65 a piece of junk.
Enjoy your... hmmm... experiments and point of view.
I'm just going to have a hard time explaining someone who will come from the "internet" and mention your post as to why the SB65 is useless...
In the right setup, the SB65 is the most musical and amazing on string instruments I've ever heard.

YMMV, obviously.
 
#8
BasicHIFI1 said:
Interesting stuff.

Not sure I understand what this is. Are you running each speaker off a different set of outputs each set to a the frequency ranges? Off one amplifier?
Click to expand...
Thanks!
Re “WMTF” I’ve been experimenting with different wirings using some caps and inductors I have laying around. I basically made up this term and it is not super accurate. I was referring to this arrangement which gave good listening results. the following are all in parallel with a single amp:

(+)——10mH——Misco21”——(-)

(+)——33uF————\
. >—MAOP10—(-)
(+)——Alpair11ms—-/

(+)——2uF——Alpair7ms———(-)

Hope my ascii art renders correctly and makes sense.
 
#10
RXV said:
Please do break them in first before properly doing an assessment of the drivers.
As per my experience with a lot of Markaudio drivers (including the MAOP), they require a lot of break-in time (minimum 100 hours) before performing at their best (some sound a little tinny or lack some bass or undefined at first)
Click to expand...
Good to know. I can report back after they’ve broken in some more. The ETON Arcosias I’ve found sound great out-of-the-box so I wonder what is different from a design/manufacturing perspective.
 
#11
perceval said:
Drivers all over the place, no break in of them, and calling the SB65 a piece of junk.
Enjoy your... hmmm... experiments and point of view.
I'm just going to have a hard time explaining someone who will come from the "internet" and mention your post as to why the SB65 is useless...
In the right setup, the SB65 is the most musical and amazing on string instruments I've ever heard.

YMMV, obviously.
Click to expand...
I’ll need to play around more with the SB drivers. But my initial impression (both fullrange and mid-tweet experiments) are that the Alpair7ms beats it hands-down open baffle. I realize price and cone area are very different.

RE: Jankiness of the experimental setup: I agree, it would be better to have several identical baffles, each with a different driver in the exact same position. However, between kids & career stuff I literally had a two-hour block to make this happen. Plus limited space in my living room; so I had to make some compromises. Still, I feel like it gives me useful insights.
 
#14
gregulator said:
I posted on Reddit but also posting here for this audience:

View attachment 1140497

I’ve been having fun trying out different fullrange drivers in a janky prototype OB setup.
Drivers & initial subjective impressions:

SB Acoustics SB65WBAC25-4 2.5" Full Range - Piece of junk, sounds tinny and distorted.

SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 8" Paper Full Range - Biggest sound and most efficient of the bunch, but the least refined and very harsh/fatiguing in the treble. I don’t think I could live with it.

Markaudio Alpair-7MS Full Range - Best treble of the bunch with wide dispersion. Works great as a tweeter. My new favorite tweeter - better than Bliesma t34-a I think and significantly cheaper. Does not work fullrange at my preferred listening levels (moderate to somewhat loud). Sounds thin & distorted in the bass/mids.

Markaudio Alpair-11MS Full Range - OK all around. Alpair-7ms has better treble. Maop10.2 has better mids. Complex passages sound a little muddy.

Markaudio Maop 10.2 Full Range - Best mids & overall clarity. Vocals are especially great. Treble is lacking. Kinda mellow/bland sounding.

Misco Venturo 21” driver w/ 10mH inductor (supplementing bass) - extremely efficient with high EBP, which is needed for OB bass. I slightly prefer the Peerless 18” FSL-1830R06-08 for sound quality, but this wins for efficiency, allowing the fullrange units to be used unattenuated.

I like my long-standing favorites the Eton Arcosia 4” and 7” more than any of these SB and Markaudio drivers, BUT they are much more expensive, aren’t really fullrange, and are hard to find these days. The Arcosia drivers have better detail & clarity, especially during complex/layered musical passages, and are more euphonic overall.

My best results so far has been running 4 drivers in an WMTF wiring with the Misco 21”(sub bass <60hz 1o), Alpair11ms (bass/mid < 600hz 1o), Alpair7ms (treble > 10khz 1o), Maop10.2 (fullrange). It sounds pretty freaking amazing actually. Much better than any single driver or FAST arrangement.

None of the drivers have been broken in.
Click to expand...
Also position of drivers on baffle is not the same, keep in mind
 
#15
Deka said:
I'm just curious, what are the news about your OB project, after a while.
Are the MarkAudio drivers still the best performers together?
Click to expand...

Thanks for asking.

I ended up doing a big OB build with EAD Sweden drivers. I posted some pics in the Burning Amp thread and will start a dedicated thread for them when I get a chance. WWMTMWW arrangement with 4x EAD E170, 2x EAD E100HD and 1x EAD E60HD per side. They sound glorious.

The EAD drivers vs Markaudio is close but subjectively I like the EAD drivers more. They have higher QTS which I think helps for OB, and the EAD drivers feel more sturdy & substantial overall. Bass from the E170 is insanely good. E100HD vs MAOP 10.2 for mid-duty is a close call. E60HD vs Alpair7ms for mid-tweet duty is also a close call.

I’ve found that using a single metal cone driver fullrange does not work for me. All of the 5” or larger drivers (Alpair, MAOP, EAD, Arcosia) have a harshness (overly-metallic sound) in the upper mids/treble, probably due to cone breakup. All of the smaller drivers don’t produce enough bass or have enough power handling.

That leaves me with multi-way designs using 2 or more metal-cone drivers, which sound fantastic.

For Markaudio, the MAOP 10.2 (mid) + Alpair 7ms (treble) is the best combo IMO.

For EAD, the 3-way E170 (bass) + E100 (mid) + E60 (treble) is outstanding
 
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