Greets!
Well, you could fold it more than once 😉, but BIBs are highly flexible alignments, so don't have to be tuned to an octave below Fs. For example, using T.C.'s 'stock' height of 69" i.d./138" line length based on a 48.78 Hz tuning using MJK's 342 m/s (13464.54") SoS:
L = ~138"
Sm = ~234.662"^2 (~12.881" W x 18.217" D)
a-b-c = ~9.109"
zdriver = ~29.949"
GM
Well, you could fold it more than once 😉, but BIBs are highly flexible alignments, so don't have to be tuned to an octave below Fs. For example, using T.C.'s 'stock' height of 69" i.d./138" line length based on a 48.78 Hz tuning using MJK's 342 m/s (13464.54") SoS:
L = ~138"
Sm = ~234.662"^2 (~12.881" W x 18.217" D)
a-b-c = ~9.109"
zdriver = ~29.949"
GM
Thanks GM and Dave,
So is L that flexible that I can pick a tuning freq to use or does it need to be a specific number that can be worked somehow? I was thinking of 78" as the height which should be a tuning of 43hz if my math is right. That is still higher than I would like, but manageable for size and as far as I have heard, I think it might still sound pretty good. I was wondering how far from the roof it might need to be though.
Well, one thing is for sure, I got some gift cards to Lowes this week so I will be getting that storage building this coming weekend. That means I will be buying the last piece of equipment for my wood shop sometime next month! Woohoo! Once I have the saw, it is just a matter of cutting wood and figuring out what I like.
I hear ya on the treatments Dave. I might just have to order a set from you this year. I am thinking of building enough cabs for HT before it is over with. If I decide I can live with the sound of the T-amps, I will probably do that. I don't think I want to go down the road of 6+ channels of tube power. It will be a time consuming process. I hate that I can't run out and buy stuff to play with, but then, what would I have to look forward to?
Merry christmas again and thanks for all the help!
Take care!
Robert
So is L that flexible that I can pick a tuning freq to use or does it need to be a specific number that can be worked somehow? I was thinking of 78" as the height which should be a tuning of 43hz if my math is right. That is still higher than I would like, but manageable for size and as far as I have heard, I think it might still sound pretty good. I was wondering how far from the roof it might need to be though.
Well, one thing is for sure, I got some gift cards to Lowes this week so I will be getting that storage building this coming weekend. That means I will be buying the last piece of equipment for my wood shop sometime next month! Woohoo! Once I have the saw, it is just a matter of cutting wood and figuring out what I like.
I hear ya on the treatments Dave. I might just have to order a set from you this year. I am thinking of building enough cabs for HT before it is over with. If I decide I can live with the sound of the T-amps, I will probably do that. I don't think I want to go down the road of 6+ channels of tube power. It will be a time consuming process. I hate that I can't run out and buy stuff to play with, but then, what would I have to look forward to?
Merry christmas again and thanks for all the help!
Take care!
Robert
Merry Christmas and all that jive!
You're welcome!
Like I said, they're quite flexible with the understanding that if too short there's no ceiling gain of note, requiring inverting to floor loading and the 3rd harmonic notch will always be around one octave of the pipe's path-length.
As a general rule, the mouth needs to be ~Sm radius*0.613 away, so if Sm = 100"^2, then SQRT(100/pi) = 5.642*0.613 = ~3.46" away whether floor or ceiling as a starting point for experimentation.
GM
You're welcome!
Like I said, they're quite flexible with the understanding that if too short there's no ceiling gain of note, requiring inverting to floor loading and the 3rd harmonic notch will always be around one octave of the pipe's path-length.
As a general rule, the mouth needs to be ~Sm radius*0.613 away, so if Sm = 100"^2, then SQRT(100/pi) = 5.642*0.613 = ~3.46" away whether floor or ceiling as a starting point for experimentation.
GM
That makes sense.
It was a VERY merry Christmas here today. The in-laws actually donated with gift cards and cash to the "Finish Robert's wood shop fund!" I will be going Friday to purchase the storage building, the materials for the floor and MY TABLE SAW! WOohoo!
It's time for some sawdust to fly! I can't wait!
I was thinking that I would need the top of the enclosure to be more like 10-12" from the ceiling, but if only 3" is the goal, I really could work these into the corners so that they looked built into the room........
I will have to ponder this one just a bit. This could get very interesting before it's over.
Thanks to everyone and Merry Christmas!
Robert
It was a VERY merry Christmas here today. The in-laws actually donated with gift cards and cash to the "Finish Robert's wood shop fund!" I will be going Friday to purchase the storage building, the materials for the floor and MY TABLE SAW! WOohoo!
It's time for some sawdust to fly! I can't wait!
I was thinking that I would need the top of the enclosure to be more like 10-12" from the ceiling, but if only 3" is the goal, I really could work these into the corners so that they looked built into the room........
I will have to ponder this one just a bit. This could get very interesting before it's over.
Thanks to everyone and Merry Christmas!
Robert
Scottmoose said:
Absolutely right about that - the 85K's make for great computer speaker (no issue with my iMac display), or nearfield in a small room (<200ft^2), but any attempts to achieve "realistic" levels in a larger venue than that would guarantee at least an "I told ya so" from our friend Ed. IINM, his philosophy includes the dictum "if it can't achieve over 100dB SPL without audible distortion, you're not getting it all".
That works for some, and perhaps some folks are genetically gifted to be able to withstand those levels , but I can live without any further hearing damage.
For a room that size, you might want to consider something like the Hawthorne Silver Iris, perhaps with the Augie sub - sensitivity on the main system would be more than adequate with a T-amp (if you haven't already selected that yet, you should seriously consider the Kingrex T20U - just silly good for the money), and should sound fabulous with the Decware integrated. I've listened to a few sub amps, and the Kiega that I think they recommend for the Augie is quite decent.
Jason - that positive enough for ya? Trust me I know what I'm talking about in reference to "Ed"
You guys don't like the Austin’s any more?
They've been superseded by anything and everything else? 😕
(No one else even mentions them, I’m wondering if I’m a lone fanatic or something)
I thought they had smoother frequency response than BIBs, and worked well in that size room?
Robert 🙂
They've been superseded by anything and everything else? 😕
(No one else even mentions them, I’m wondering if I’m a lone fanatic or something)
I thought they had smoother frequency response than BIBs, and worked well in that size room?
Robert 🙂
It's funny you just posted that Robert!
I was just looking at the plans for the Austins now. I was just thinking how I will be able to get a much faster start on building now that I will have a full shop by the end of this weekend. How did you find the build on those? They look very easy to me although it's been a while since I made any real sawdust.
Has anyone done a real comparison between the Austin with the 126 and the frugal? I am interested to see what opinions are on imaging and staging more than output or bass. At this point I have been listening to these little computer monitors at a 3 ft distance for almost 4 days and the more I move around, the more I like the fact that there really is no "sweet spot". My little T-amp is running the heck out of them too. Of course, they are ugly and they are not nearly as good at transients as a horn will be, but they sound amazingly good considering what they are lol.
Now that I can move my schedule up so much, my thoughts on what design to build have taken a new approach. I was going to just sit back and let you guys hash out what you would do in my case, but I think now that I will likely build two or three new speakers to try.
Keep em coming guys, I have a few days to dedicate myself to one or another design.
Could I use the Silver Flutes in a horn design like the Austin? I will do some more reading over on that site. Also the BVR cabs for 8" are catching my interest if I can use them with a tweeter or even with the Fostex as my highs? I don't think the silver flutes will get near full range?
Thanks again,
Robert
I was just looking at the plans for the Austins now. I was just thinking how I will be able to get a much faster start on building now that I will have a full shop by the end of this weekend. How did you find the build on those? They look very easy to me although it's been a while since I made any real sawdust.
Has anyone done a real comparison between the Austin with the 126 and the frugal? I am interested to see what opinions are on imaging and staging more than output or bass. At this point I have been listening to these little computer monitors at a 3 ft distance for almost 4 days and the more I move around, the more I like the fact that there really is no "sweet spot". My little T-amp is running the heck out of them too. Of course, they are ugly and they are not nearly as good at transients as a horn will be, but they sound amazingly good considering what they are lol.
Now that I can move my schedule up so much, my thoughts on what design to build have taken a new approach. I was going to just sit back and let you guys hash out what you would do in my case, but I think now that I will likely build two or three new speakers to try.
Keep em coming guys, I have a few days to dedicate myself to one or another design.
Could I use the Silver Flutes in a horn design like the Austin? I will do some more reading over on that site. Also the BVR cabs for 8" are catching my interest if I can use them with a tweeter or even with the Fostex as my highs? I don't think the silver flutes will get near full range?
Thanks again,
Robert
musgofasa said:
Yes. They are both very good, but they work in different rooms. In Chris' room the bass with the A126 was too much, in my room, i only have fake corners and the A126 against the wall outdid the FHs.
dave
Interesting,
I may build both and try them to see what differences there are. I will look at the plans and decide which one I will build first. My room has a door in the angled wall in the back corner. Basically, one wall is 22 feet long, the front wall is 13ft wide, the next wall (parallel to the first) is about 17ft and then there is a 30deg angle with a set of french doors that can be opened or closed. The side walls currently have thick curtains that can be drawn or let down depending on reflections and I can add bass traps pretty easy if need be. I am more partial to a "live" room though. I know most would disagree, but it is a sound I have come to like more and more. Considering that the speakers can be moved anywhere from right up against the corner to the middle of the room, which would you say might have a better chance of performing? keep in mind the 126 driver selection.
Thanks again,
Robert
I may build both and try them to see what differences there are. I will look at the plans and decide which one I will build first. My room has a door in the angled wall in the back corner. Basically, one wall is 22 feet long, the front wall is 13ft wide, the next wall (parallel to the first) is about 17ft and then there is a 30deg angle with a set of french doors that can be opened or closed. The side walls currently have thick curtains that can be drawn or let down depending on reflections and I can add bass traps pretty easy if need be. I am more partial to a "live" room though. I know most would disagree, but it is a sound I have come to like more and more. Considering that the speakers can be moved anywhere from right up against the corner to the middle of the room, which would you say might have a better chance of performing? keep in mind the 126 driver selection.
Thanks again,
Robert
If you're really interested in the imaging/staging/dissapearing act thing, and you've got a new table saw to play with, you might want to build a few diffusers.
They made a huge difference in my room.
Robert 🙂
They made a huge difference in my room.
Robert 🙂
Hi Guys,
Sorry to ask so many questions to which all the answers have been given, A quick search on the forum turned up the "Frugel Horn Project" thread and I see all the comparisons and reasoning behind them.
Methinks I will probably build an FH first. I think that I will likely like it very much considering the room and set up I intend to use.
I have been looking for a picture I saw yesterday of a level 1 build with some corner trim that I really liked the looks of, but can't seem to locate it now. Oh well, I will come up with something creative I am sure.
Thanks for the help!
Take care,
Robert
Sorry to ask so many questions to which all the answers have been given, A quick search on the forum turned up the "Frugel Horn Project" thread and I see all the comparisons and reasoning behind them.
Methinks I will probably build an FH first. I think that I will likely like it very much considering the room and set up I intend to use.
I have been looking for a picture I saw yesterday of a level 1 build with some corner trim that I really liked the looks of, but can't seem to locate it now. Oh well, I will come up with something creative I am sure.
Thanks for the help!
Take care,
Robert
Arghhh
I found the picture I was looking for and posted it here this morning, but I think I hit the "preview" button and forgot to actually post it lol.
That's ok. I am dying with anticipation now,lol. It will be fun getting the new toys out and getting to work.
take care guys!
Robert
I found the picture I was looking for and posted it here this morning, but I think I hit the "preview" button and forgot to actually post it lol.
That's ok. I am dying with anticipation now,lol. It will be fun getting the new toys out and getting to work.
take care guys!
Robert
Yeah, bug
It was a loose nut behind the controls lol.
Here is what I was looking for:
I like the looks of this one. The side trim is sexy> I am trying to decide if I want to do a wide base and do the base and trim in black or if I have another idea. Aesthetics are the fun part for me. Has anybody had any really cool ideas that we haven't seen yet?
take care,
Robert
It was a loose nut behind the controls lol.
Here is what I was looking for:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I like the looks of this one. The side trim is sexy> I am trying to decide if I want to do a wide base and do the base and trim in black or if I have another idea. Aesthetics are the fun part for me. Has anybody had any really cool ideas that we haven't seen yet?
take care,
Robert
Hey Robert,,
I have built BiB's, a BK-16 blh, and open baffles, those with the fostex 166e, not all were bad sounding, 'cept the bib was the best , in temrs of simplicity, and end result. I used a little powered subwoofer, eventually left it off, and it seemed better without it I feel like doing some with the larger 8"'s though...or that MJK open baffle project , seems very intresting, and iI love the open sound of those baffles...
Where in SC are ya ? , I am in Lexingotn, currently I am running some old JBL 4311 studio monitors with an old Eico st-40 , and for the super cheap layout of cash, ~$50, I cannot complain one bit. Still jonezing for another project though...btw I use a assortment of amplification, from 2A3 sets, too vinatge SS,, to what I am using now...
In your size room though , I would still consider the bib with one of the larger 8"ers,,,I htink you will impressed.....
good luck,,,
chris
I have built BiB's, a BK-16 blh, and open baffles, those with the fostex 166e, not all were bad sounding, 'cept the bib was the best , in temrs of simplicity, and end result. I used a little powered subwoofer, eventually left it off, and it seemed better without it I feel like doing some with the larger 8"'s though...or that MJK open baffle project , seems very intresting, and iI love the open sound of those baffles...
Where in SC are ya ? , I am in Lexingotn, currently I am running some old JBL 4311 studio monitors with an old Eico st-40 , and for the super cheap layout of cash, ~$50, I cannot complain one bit. Still jonezing for another project though...btw I use a assortment of amplification, from 2A3 sets, too vinatge SS,, to what I am using now...
In your size room though , I would still consider the bib with one of the larger 8"ers,,,I htink you will impressed.....
good luck,,,
chris
Thanks Oface,
I am in Greenville so only about a 2 hour drive I think.
I was thinking about all the suggestions on this thread and what people thought would work well. In my portfolio I have three different blh enclosures for the 126. I am definitely going to build an FH and a set of Austins. Actually that means I have 4 designs for the 126 that are BLH. I doubt I will try another one though. I have a two way design I am likely to build after I get my hands on another set of drivers. I will probably get a modded set or get another set to learn to do the mods with. I seriously doubt I will be modding the drivers myself though. I have a T-amp mod project and a couple of tube amp projects on the boards for this year.
After that, I have at least two designs for 6" drivers I want to try. I might build those, but it is likely I am going to build a couple of 8" tests first. I am thinking of either a Fostex or the Decware modded Fostex 8" for these. Once I get that pair, you can count on a BIB being built. I want to see how this thing sounds if for no other reason than it's simplicity. I saw a post by scottmoose saying something about a combination Fonken and FH? I may wait and see what comes of that.
I figure these projects will keep me busy for a minimum of another year. After that, who knows. Back to the drawing board and see what is next, lol. I may be happy with something and keep it in one piece, but you can count on me building something all the time. It's just in my blood. I don't care what I am doing so long as I am working. I still want back in the business of building speakers for a living. I miss that with my heart every day. Something tells me I may find a way to do this even if only part time.
Thanks for the ideas!
Robert
I am in Greenville so only about a 2 hour drive I think.
I was thinking about all the suggestions on this thread and what people thought would work well. In my portfolio I have three different blh enclosures for the 126. I am definitely going to build an FH and a set of Austins. Actually that means I have 4 designs for the 126 that are BLH. I doubt I will try another one though. I have a two way design I am likely to build after I get my hands on another set of drivers. I will probably get a modded set or get another set to learn to do the mods with. I seriously doubt I will be modding the drivers myself though. I have a T-amp mod project and a couple of tube amp projects on the boards for this year.
After that, I have at least two designs for 6" drivers I want to try. I might build those, but it is likely I am going to build a couple of 8" tests first. I am thinking of either a Fostex or the Decware modded Fostex 8" for these. Once I get that pair, you can count on a BIB being built. I want to see how this thing sounds if for no other reason than it's simplicity. I saw a post by scottmoose saying something about a combination Fonken and FH? I may wait and see what comes of that.
I figure these projects will keep me busy for a minimum of another year. After that, who knows. Back to the drawing board and see what is next, lol. I may be happy with something and keep it in one piece, but you can count on me building something all the time. It's just in my blood. I don't care what I am doing so long as I am working. I still want back in the business of building speakers for a living. I miss that with my heart every day. Something tells me I may find a way to do this even if only part time.
Thanks for the ideas!
Robert
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