This is an interesting topic. I hope more can chime in. As a newbie to OB and with my recent OB experiences, I used to think like you. So my previous baffles is always big. I tried 20''x40'', 24''x48'', 32''x38'' only for the FR and Sub in a separate H-frame. The sound is good.
A few days ago, I tried out an experiment by mounting an 8'' FR driver on a smaller baffle at 16''x18'' and put them on top of the H-frame woofer. The sound is much more open with wider soundstage. I'm very surprised with the sonic result. I will try to experiment with the rest of FR collections that I have to see what the difference does it make b/w big and small for each driver so far my experiment going from big to small is significant for 1 FR that I tried. Edge software also shows a flatter response with the small baffle that I tried, it has a high peak but at lower frequency which can XO with a sub
Cheers,
Tom
A few days ago, I tried out an experiment by mounting an 8'' FR driver on a smaller baffle at 16''x18'' and put them on top of the H-frame woofer. The sound is much more open with wider soundstage. I'm very surprised with the sonic result. I will try to experiment with the rest of FR collections that I have to see what the difference does it make b/w big and small for each driver so far my experiment going from big to small is significant for 1 FR that I tried. Edge software also shows a flatter response with the small baffle that I tried, it has a high peak but at lower frequency which can XO with a sub
Cheers,
Tom
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Eminence Beta 12LTA on Open Baffle | Speaker Projects by Zilla
The Eminence 12lta is about 97db per watt. Just treat this driver like a typical full range driver (Fostex, for example) and cross a tweeter up high with just a capacitor.
I have been enjoying the Eminence Lil’ Buddy on OB for the past year. It’s rated at 98db per watt. Certainly my little Topping digital amp (15 watts or so) lights up the room with sound (with either the 12lta or Lil’ Buddy). The Lil’ Buddy requires a different crossover and a tweeter that can play down to 1600kHz but it’s great fun to listen to.
Rather than an H-frame, you can build an OB like this on just a plank of plywood (or double it up like I did). The Eminence Alpha 15 is powered by a separate powered subwoofer amp.
Good luck with your build whatever you decide to do!
The Eminence 12lta is about 97db per watt. Just treat this driver like a typical full range driver (Fostex, for example) and cross a tweeter up high with just a capacitor.
I have been enjoying the Eminence Lil’ Buddy on OB for the past year. It’s rated at 98db per watt. Certainly my little Topping digital amp (15 watts or so) lights up the room with sound (with either the 12lta or Lil’ Buddy). The Lil’ Buddy requires a different crossover and a tweeter that can play down to 1600kHz but it’s great fun to listen to.
Rather than an H-frame, you can build an OB like this on just a plank of plywood (or double it up like I did). The Eminence Alpha 15 is powered by a separate powered subwoofer amp.
Good luck with your build whatever you decide to do!
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Plus, so much less woodwork.
How big can your baffle be?
I have to admit, that is actually why I thought about open baffle.. Less woodwork. I mentioned I'm rehabbing a house, and was actually hoping to 'throw something together' with some sheets of plywood and a couple drivers, just to have some music while I work. But speakers are complex! (at least to me.. I'm better w/ the EE amp design stuff than speaker physics.. maybe I should just build a more powerful amp for the woofers
(but I can't until after the house project))It'll be in a big open hardwood floor, high ceiling room. No furniture or anything in it now..
So, now nothing really matters.. I could make wall sized baffles and it won't get in the way at the moment. But, after construction for my speakers I'm going to live with.... I don't know. Maybe between two and three feet wide would be the max the wife would put up with.
So, the baffle/cabinet can change later.. But I don't want to waste money on drivers I won't use for my final speakers. I'd probably use a big flat panel for now to keep it simple, then design a U or H frame for the woofer to get them smaller later.
Thanks for this.. This would certainly be trying something new... I've always gone for smaller 'full range' drivers.. 3-5". Even some of those systems ended up needing a tweeter, so I'm not opposed to adding that on the top.
I enjoy the smaller full range drivers too. Maybe something like this could be reworked for your purpose.
Vifa TC9 plus helper tweeter on Open Baffle | Speaker Projects by Zilla
Dayton PS95-8 on Open Baffle | Speaker Projects by Zilla
Will you use one or two 15” woofers per speaker?
Vifa TC9 plus helper tweeter on Open Baffle | Speaker Projects by Zilla
Dayton PS95-8 on Open Baffle | Speaker Projects by Zilla
Will you use one or two 15” woofers per speaker?
What are your personal thoughts on the smaller vs the 12" full range driver?
Well, I was planning on using one woofer per speaker, but using two would certainly increase my db per watt for these low powered amps. And the drivers are relatively inexpensive.
I guess using dissimilar woofers would be a bad idea.. (I have the alpha 15's and those MCM 12" woofers in storage already.. But they're very different drivers and would probably react to each other unpredictably)
Well, I was planning on using one woofer per speaker, but using two would certainly increase my db per watt for these low powered amps. And the drivers are relatively inexpensive.
I guess using dissimilar woofers would be a bad idea.. (I have the alpha 15's and those MCM 12" woofers in storage already.. But they're very different drivers and would probably react to each other unpredictably)
>>> What are your personal thoughts on the smaller vs the 12" full range driver?
I listened to all of my full range drivers on open baffle and seem to prefer the sound of the larger diameter cones. They produce a larger image. The Beta 12LTA and Lil’ Buddy are awesom performers on OB.
In sealed or ported boxes the smaller diameter cones sound better to me because they image better.
I may change my mind tomorrow on this.
I listened to all of my full range drivers on open baffle and seem to prefer the sound of the larger diameter cones. They produce a larger image. The Beta 12LTA and Lil’ Buddy are awesom performers on OB.
In sealed or ported boxes the smaller diameter cones sound better to me because they image better.
I may change my mind tomorrow on this.
Go for it!
from:
Great speaker tool: REAL-TIME DSP crossover adjustment!
Cheers!
from
View attachment OB_Design_Part_1.pdf
Nelson liked the B15s
In his slot loaded:
from:
Great speaker tool: REAL-TIME DSP crossover adjustment!
Cheers!
from
View attachment OB_Design_Part_1.pdf
Nelson liked the B15s
In his slot loaded:
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Moved back to the full range forum as requested.
I ended up making H frame's. I'm powering the woofers w/ a 60 watt per channel amp. My dads old Sansui 881 that I cleaned up and recapped a few years ago (and never really used). The full range on top is powered by a 6ish watt per channel single ended amp. I've been playing w/ a lot of different speakers on top. From some 3" - 6" fostex, to some other random drivers + tweeter, to some commercial small bookshelf speakers.
The H frames gave me a lot of trouble when I first tried them. Some spots in the room sounded good, but others were lacking bass. Moving them further away from the wall made a big difference. They sound great.
The minidsp HD, with FIR filters is amazing! I'm an analog purist in some ways, and don't think I'll be putting it between my turntable and tube amps, but for digital music, why not add DSP... It's a very fun toy.
I'm quite happy w/ my first experience bi-amping with a digital crossover, and DSP room correction.
The H frames gave me a lot of trouble when I first tried them. Some spots in the room sounded good, but others were lacking bass. Moving them further away from the wall made a big difference. They sound great.
The minidsp HD, with FIR filters is amazing! I'm an analog purist in some ways, and don't think I'll be putting it between my turntable and tube amps, but for digital music, why not add DSP... It's a very fun toy.
I'm quite happy w/ my first experience bi-amping with a digital crossover, and DSP room correction.
Today, after listening to a few more types of music, I added a good ole' boxed (ported) sub. At some point the H frames give up.. I haven't measured yet to see exactly where.
I listen to all sorts of music.. a lot of classical and jazz, and love piano of both those genre (Chopan, Bill Evans, etc). That's what I've been listening to, and they sound amazing. But, I also love electronic music. And today I needed to get some work done and put on some bass heavy electronic music, and at some frequencies the woofer cones are violently shaking, but I don't hear anything. The subwoofer immediately corrected that issue.
I think a sub is simply a necessity in a lot of situations (maybe most...). Not necessarily a boxed plate amp style sub.. But something else to reproduce the lowest frequencies. I haven't ever heard a horn or open baffle type speaker that can reproduce the full spectrum, all the way down to 20hz, with a flat volume response. I have very limited experience, though.
I listen to all sorts of music.. a lot of classical and jazz, and love piano of both those genre (Chopan, Bill Evans, etc). That's what I've been listening to, and they sound amazing. But, I also love electronic music. And today I needed to get some work done and put on some bass heavy electronic music, and at some frequencies the woofer cones are violently shaking, but I don't hear anything. The subwoofer immediately corrected that issue.
I think a sub is simply a necessity in a lot of situations (maybe most...). Not necessarily a boxed plate amp style sub.. But something else to reproduce the lowest frequencies. I haven't ever heard a horn or open baffle type speaker that can reproduce the full spectrum, all the way down to 20hz, with a flat volume response. I have very limited experience, though.
Are you sure that minidsp FIR sounds good? I personally feel IIR sounds more analog filter like in many cases...
I'm using IIR for the crossover and most EQ and everything. Then a bit of FIR to finish matching it to the room and correct some phase issues.
I'm happy with it... Like I said, I'm just playing digital music through this system.. Most of the source material is MP3 in this case, so already has issues where the subtitle acoustic things we often talk about here are already lost.
I'm happy with it... Like I said, I'm just playing digital music through this system.. Most of the source material is MP3 in this case, so already has issues where the subtitle acoustic things we often talk about here are already lost.
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