Hello, I am new here and in this topic. I have two JBL ASB6125 (each with 2 x 15") and two JBL-2450H (2" compression driver) with JBL 2385A horns. Now I am unsure whether that is all I need to cover the full spectrum, especially for ambient lush electronic music mostly from analog synths and punchy kickdrum plus additional acoustic instruments for live jams. At the moment it sounds good but I dont have a direct commparison so cant really tell if something is missing.
Now someone mentioned I should get a 10 or 12 inch to cover the midrange better. But at least on paper the frequency overlap nicely and I dont want to muddy things up. I noticed a dip in the 400-700Hz range of the ASB6125 so I was looking to cover that area with the recommended additional driver. I found the Eighteensound 12ND710 would cover it well, at least on paper. Then I heard that perhaps the dip is there on purpose to bring out voices better. So im a bit confused right now 😕
JBL ASB6125 (left) -- JBL-2450H (middle) -- Eighteensound 12ND710 (right)
Now someone mentioned I should get a 10 or 12 inch to cover the midrange better. But at least on paper the frequency overlap nicely and I dont want to muddy things up. I noticed a dip in the 400-700Hz range of the ASB6125 so I was looking to cover that area with the recommended additional driver. I found the Eighteensound 12ND710 would cover it well, at least on paper. Then I heard that perhaps the dip is there on purpose to bring out voices better. So im a bit confused right now 😕
JBL ASB6125 (left) -- JBL-2450H (middle) -- Eighteensound 12ND710 (right)
Turn the mid range up on your mixer if you think it needs it.
That's what the EQ is for.
That's what the EQ is for.
ChatGPT: Based on the frequency response graphs you provided and the components in your setup, let's break down the situation and considerations for potentially adding a midrange driver.
Current Setup
- JBL ASB6125 Subwoofers (each with 2 x 15" woofers)
- Frequency Response: ~35 Hz to 1 kHz
- Notable Dip: 400-700 Hz
- JBL 2450H Compression Drivers with JBL 2385A Horns
- Frequency Response: ~500 Hz to 20 kHz
Observations
1. Frequency Overlap:
- There is a good overlap between the ASB6125 and the 2450H, theoretically covering from 35 Hz up to 20 kHz.
- However, the dip in the ASB6125 response between 400-700 Hz might create a gap that could affect the fullness of the midrange, which is critical for lush ambient music and ensuring the kick drum and acoustic instruments are well represented.
2. Midrange Consideration:
- Potential Gap: The dip in the ASB6125's response in the 400-700 Hz range could mean that this area is not as pronounced as it could be, potentially leading to a lack of presence in the midrange frequencies.
- Purposeful Dip: This dip could be intentional for certain acoustic properties, such as clarity in vocals. However, for electronic music and live jams with diverse instrumentation, a fuller midrange might be more desirable.
Solution
Adding Eighteen Sound 12ND710:
- Frequency Response: Covers a range from 60 Hz to 4 kHz, filling the dip in the 400-700 Hz range effectively.
- Advantages: This driver has good linearity and sensitivity, which would seamlessly integrate into your current setup without muddying the sound.
Integration
Example Crossover Points
Conclusion
Given the dip in the 400-700 Hz range of your ASB6125 subwoofers, integrating a dedicated midrange driver like the Eighteen Sound 12ND710 would likely improve the overall balance and fullness of your sound system. This setup would ensure that the critical midrange frequencies are adequately covered, providing a richer and more cohesive sound for ambient electronic music and live performances. Proper crossover setup and careful integration will prevent any muddiness and ensure a seamless blend across the frequency spectrum.
Current Setup
- JBL ASB6125 Subwoofers (each with 2 x 15" woofers)
- Frequency Response: ~35 Hz to 1 kHz
- Notable Dip: 400-700 Hz
- JBL 2450H Compression Drivers with JBL 2385A Horns
- Frequency Response: ~500 Hz to 20 kHz
Observations
1. Frequency Overlap:
- There is a good overlap between the ASB6125 and the 2450H, theoretically covering from 35 Hz up to 20 kHz.
- However, the dip in the ASB6125 response between 400-700 Hz might create a gap that could affect the fullness of the midrange, which is critical for lush ambient music and ensuring the kick drum and acoustic instruments are well represented.
2. Midrange Consideration:
- Potential Gap: The dip in the ASB6125's response in the 400-700 Hz range could mean that this area is not as pronounced as it could be, potentially leading to a lack of presence in the midrange frequencies.
- Purposeful Dip: This dip could be intentional for certain acoustic properties, such as clarity in vocals. However, for electronic music and live jams with diverse instrumentation, a fuller midrange might be more desirable.
Solution
Adding Eighteen Sound 12ND710:
- Frequency Response: Covers a range from 60 Hz to 4 kHz, filling the dip in the 400-700 Hz range effectively.
- Advantages: This driver has good linearity and sensitivity, which would seamlessly integrate into your current setup without muddying the sound.
Integration
- Crossover Adjustment: Ensure the crossover points are set correctly to allow the Eighteen Sound 12ND710 to handle the midrange, freeing the ASB6125 from trying to cover this dip and allowing the 2450H to handle the high frequencies without having to cover the lower midrange.
- Amplification: Make sure your amplifiers are adequately powered and configured to handle the additional midrange drivers.
Example Crossover Points
- Subwoofers (ASB6125): 35 Hz to ~350 Hz
- Midrange (12ND710): ~350 Hz to ~1.5 kHz
- High Frequency (2450H with 2385A): ~1.5 kHz and up
Conclusion
Given the dip in the 400-700 Hz range of your ASB6125 subwoofers, integrating a dedicated midrange driver like the Eighteen Sound 12ND710 would likely improve the overall balance and fullness of your sound system. This setup would ensure that the critical midrange frequencies are adequately covered, providing a richer and more cohesive sound for ambient electronic music and live performances. Proper crossover setup and careful integration will prevent any muddiness and ensure a seamless blend across the frequency spectrum.
The Full-range part of this forum refers to full-range speakers without crossovers.
This should be in the PA or Multiway section.
This should be in the PA or Multiway section.
As well as on axis frequency response, you need to consider off axis too
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Beaming.htm
Your 400-700Hz dip on axis is likely to be much worse off axis. Adding a smaller diameter mid range speaker would improve the off axis response too
I’m not a PA expert, but would think that flat on axis response and a graceful off axis response is the best starting point for any speaker. When the frequencies transition from the bass speakers to the horn, there will be a step in off axis response and this would be improved by adding mid range driver. You can always EQ to suit the room and to taste after
Can you hire/borrow or otherwise listen to such a system to compare to see if it’s worth the effort?
Brian
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Beaming.htm
Your 400-700Hz dip on axis is likely to be much worse off axis. Adding a smaller diameter mid range speaker would improve the off axis response too
I’m not a PA expert, but would think that flat on axis response and a graceful off axis response is the best starting point for any speaker. When the frequencies transition from the bass speakers to the horn, there will be a step in off axis response and this would be improved by adding mid range driver. You can always EQ to suit the room and to taste after
Can you hire/borrow or otherwise listen to such a system to compare to see if it’s worth the effort?
Brian
Thank you, what size are you suggesting? The Eighteen Sound 12ND710 seems to cover the 400-700Hz dip well.
Regarding the off-axis topic, so focus is on ensuring overall response remains evenly high i.e. evening out the dips with a smaller diameter mid range speaker (or via EG as suggested by @JonSnell Electronic)?
I could order a few new ones and send them back if they're not sounding as expected...
Moved to PA SystemsI was thinking as small as 8”
A few PA mids are available like this one
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...-8-inch-125-watt-replacement-pa-speaker-8-ohm
Brian
Thanks for the suggestion. I checked several mids but theyre not really adding much at least on paper. I plotted the frequency response graphs of a JBL ASB6125 dual 15" sub and of a JBL 2450H compression driver. At least in theory, I wouldn't need a mid and even a dual 18" sub like the JBL SRX828S wouldn't add much.