full range and bass

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bull041161

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Joined 2009
#1
Hi all i have never heard a full range speaker but i have read about them and what i would like to know is can that produce good bass the type that hits you in the gut . I was thinking of building a pair TL speakers or geting a pair of fostex 206 i have just built the 41HZ AMP 6B and is fantastic but not that powerfull with my mission M7I . So the new build would have to be at least 90DB what do you think TL or full range TL TYPE
 
#6
Hi all:

What in your opinion is the best FR driver & non gargantuan cabinet which gives the best ["hits you in the gut" like bull041161 says] bass without sacrificing the other "good" qualities of a full ranger?
In your replies, links to the cabinet plans would be much appreciated.
 
#8
keith_correa said:
Hi all:

What in your opinion is the best FR driver & non gargantuan cabinet which gives the best ["hits you in the gut" like bull041161 says] bass without sacrificing the other "good" qualities of a full ranger?
In your replies, links to the cabinet plans would be much appreciated.
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sorry, but you're kidding, right? 😀

a single answer to the above would require a consensus, and while most FR addicts would agree on the concept of keeping things simple, the methods and favorite driver / enclosure / amp combos used to achieve that are anything but.

As rjbond3rd alluded, one of the simpler paths to your specified goal of bass impact would probably be along the lines of Martin's DIY OB project - the architecture of which allows a fair degree of latitude of driver choices. OB panels don't need to be huge, and can certainly be more domestically manageable than some of the big-a$$ horns required for many of the larger diameter FR drivers.
 
#9
As Chris & rj. suggest. FR driver & non gargantuan cabinet (in modern parlance -I have what many people would consider a somewhat warped view on what constitutes a large box) that kicks you in the gut? Not going to happen.

You could probably do a modest sized box, tuned to about 70Hz; PA style alignment. That's where most of the energy people are refering to when they talk about being kicked in the chest resides. But the box is still unlikely to be especially small.
 
#10
Dallas II is not that big 😀

I have just completed mine (except finish). Excellent bass in these. That is, they are rolling off ~40Hz in my room/setup, and in a corner placement they should be even better.

3661001902_862ab663c1.jpg





Turn up the "Sheffield Drum & Track Disc" and you feel the snare physical.
 
#11
Hit you in the chest range is 100-200hz (slam and impact).

I found this out when running 15's per side for home theater.
When I ran dual 15's it added to the slam factor and was closer to a drum kit sound than anything I had before, except my 7ft2 mouth W-bin, but that I had to be over 10' away to be hit by it.

Regardless of volume level, moving more air is a plus for bass.
2 x 15's sound right to me, even at my mouse fart volume levels I listen at nowadays.

Norman
 
#13
One of the few limitations of full-rangers is relative lack of spl in the lowest bass region. 'Punch' is a very broad and subjective term. In my opinion what you want for decent 'punch' is good transient response combined with high spl cabability in the bass region. There is no doubt that some full-rangers do the fast transients (probably somewhat better than the norm) but to do the spl and extension you need to design for it. The best design in terms of volume/punch ratio is then probably the mass loaded transmission line with a line-length shrunk to the minimum by use of the port. The hidden advantages of full-rangers (in the bass) is that you can run them in arrays and you can design a an mltl to suit.
 
#15
loninappleton said:
The Austin II up there is splendid.
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Indeed -nice build (Dallas II BTW 😉 )


What I think about from time to time is the Super 12 Clone using the 12" Audio Nirvana.
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I'd be a little wary of using the 12 in a small box -in an ideal world, it's a unit that needs an extremely hig Vb to work optimally -in fact, it's one of the few units suited to some of the pre T/S BR design methods.

The best design in terms of volume/punch ratio is then probably the mass loaded transmission line with a line-length shrunk to the minimum by use of the port.
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Quite, but you have to keep an eye on driver displacement -most FR units don't have a whole lot of linear travel, & distortion quickly increases once that point is breached.
 
#16
Scottmoose said:


Indeed -nice build (Dallas II BTW 😉 )




I'd be a little wary of using the 12 in a small box -in an ideal world, it's a unit that needs an extremely hig Vb to work optimally -in fact, it's one of the few units suited to some of the pre T/S BR design methods.



Quite, but you have to keep an eye on driver displacement -most FR units don't have a whole lot of linear travel, & distortion quickly increases once that point is breached.
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Let me be brave enough to venture an opinion on the "Super12" - I built a pair for a buddy about 6yrs or so ago - very efficient and certainly could give that punch in the gut, but I found them very disappointing and coloured overall.

Even with several hundreds of hours of break-in on the drivers, and months and many hundreds of dollars on all the recommended XO parts upgrades, Frank could never get them sounding as musical or transparent in the midrange as a pair of Hornshoppe horns (pre FE126E) that he had around the same time.

OTOH, I have heard the Hawthorne SI 15's, and the (now discontinued ?) Adire HE systems, both based IINM on drivers from the Eminence OEM parts program. I'd take either of them over anything that sounded like the Super12.
 
#17
Quad Twelves

Please bear with me in the following question. I may not use the correct terminology in my description.
I presently have OB mounted Wharfedale 12CS-ALs reenforced below 600 Hz with second 12"s & with a pair of subs.

I'm thinking about using a pair of OBs each with four full range 12 CS-ALs in series -parallel. Two facing forward & two facing to the rear.

My question is
what would four 12" full range speakers do to the stereo imaging, depth & bass ?
What is the best way to wire the rear speakers, to have all speakers in phase (cones out together) or the front cones out & the rear cones pulling in at any one time?

I know they aren't the best choice for bass because they have a low 0.26 Qts but I'm hoping the quad setup will make up for that & enable me to eliminate the subs.

Would four speakers in a vertical OB have any benefits?
 
#18
so really, the question for Keith would be:
what would you consider the limit of "not gargantuan"?
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Considering the WAF, my room dimensions etc. - I would say that the Hornshoppe horns would be considered relatively "not gargantuan" by me

http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn.pdf
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OMG - Leave alone the WAF - I wouldn't have a wife anymore if I even consider one of these

It's probably fair to say such a project would be further down the continuum that starts with the simplicity of something like MJK OB or a Hawthorne Silver Iris, (does a 15" Coax count as "single driver"?) but there's no doubt it would have adequate slam
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You are probably right - The more I think of these - the more sense these make to me. But then what do I know?
So, know of any "non gargantuan" OB with woofer combos apart from the ones you mentioned?

All - many thanks for your responses. They are much appreciated.
 
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