wire is wire
Wire is wire and not a little symbol on our schematics.
Imagine how many metres of magnet wire we use in a 1.5 mH when we make such a fuss for maybe 2 metres of speaker wire.
But I prefer the correct balance of tone and accept the little veil of the coil. Regarding great coils I have used Alphacore too and yes they are very good. We just must be sure we are final with design and then splash out on Alphacores and Mundorfs. Such components go a longway towards making coils and caps those innocent symbols on paper as they should be... They must be doing their corrections without shouting I am here!
Guys I must also let you know I have some cryoed copper foil speaker cable now in my system and I think that is the way to go...wish they will make some coil like that in some earthy price.
Wire is wire and not a little symbol on our schematics.
Imagine how many metres of magnet wire we use in a 1.5 mH when we make such a fuss for maybe 2 metres of speaker wire.
But I prefer the correct balance of tone and accept the little veil of the coil. Regarding great coils I have used Alphacore too and yes they are very good. We just must be sure we are final with design and then splash out on Alphacores and Mundorfs. Such components go a longway towards making coils and caps those innocent symbols on paper as they should be... They must be doing their corrections without shouting I am here!
Guys I must also let you know I have some cryoed copper foil speaker cable now in my system and I think that is the way to go...wish they will make some coil like that in some earthy price.
Re: wire is wire
You could just make a coil and send it to someone like PEARl for cryo teatment. There is also one in Oz -- there is a link off Joe Rassmessen's new domain.
dave
salas said:
You could just make a coil and send it to someone like PEARl for cryo teatment. There is also one in Oz -- there is a link off Joe Rassmessen's new domain.
dave
If I might be allowed to return to reality for a minute...
I've got a pair of new JX92S's in 8 liter sealed boxes. They are placed a few inches from the back wall, which puts the the baffle about a foot from the wall. One of the speakers is very close to a corner. The coil is 1.5mH. I started with a 4ohm resistor, as recommended on the Jordan web site. The result was a very muffled sound. Not too surprising I guess, considering the placement. Omiting the BSC entirely was not perfect either. Edgy. After a number of iterations, I've converged on 1 2/3 ohms (2 ohms in parallel with 10 ohms). I think I could go a tad lower. I've ordered some non-inductive 1.5ohm resistors from PE, which I think will do just fine. But I ordered pairs of 2.0 and 1.2 for good measure.
I've got a pair of new JX92S's in 8 liter sealed boxes. They are placed a few inches from the back wall, which puts the the baffle about a foot from the wall. One of the speakers is very close to a corner. The coil is 1.5mH. I started with a 4ohm resistor, as recommended on the Jordan web site. The result was a very muffled sound. Not too surprising I guess, considering the placement. Omiting the BSC entirely was not perfect either. Edgy. After a number of iterations, I've converged on 1 2/3 ohms (2 ohms in parallel with 10 ohms). I think I could go a tad lower. I've ordered some non-inductive 1.5ohm resistors from PE, which I think will do just fine. But I ordered pairs of 2.0 and 1.2 for good measure.
I think salas is right. Perhaps the first thing to try is to get an AlphaCore foil inductor. This is probably the most reasonable approach from an engineering point of view. Which if done on such basis, you will save yourself lots of trouble and $$$ in the long run.
This is related to the skin effects of signal at different frequencies. If you have the thickness of the foil about or less than the thickness of the high frequency skin depth, and use foil width to achieve the necessary cross section area, then you will minimize phase shifts throughout the audible range.
This site has some accurate description of wire relate issues.
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/skineffect/page1.html
Since the inductor has the most wire length in normal home applications, then that is where we normally should take care of first.
This site has some accurate description of wire relate issues.
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/skineffect/page1.html
Since the inductor has the most wire length in normal home applications, then that is where we normally should take care of first.
Dave Jones said:
Hi Dave
Are you listening off-axis, with the drivers toed in 30 degrees, to cross well in front of the listening position? I've found getting well back from the crossed axis of the drivers helps tame the HF.
Having said that, I'm running the JX92S full range and the extra body in the bass seems to balance out the treble, so the above may not apply in your case.
FWIW, I've heard a single JX92S in the 8 litre reflex which Ted suggests on his site, that seemed to balance out ok using his recommended BSC circuit. Nothing like a little practical experiment, though. Be interested to hear how you get on.
Dave,
Have you also check signal polarity throughout your system? Some amplifiers and players might invert the signal without telling you. Swapping at the speaker will help you identify which is right.
Have you also check signal polarity throughout your system? Some amplifiers and players might invert the signal without telling you. Swapping at the speaker will help you identify which is right.
Re: wire is wire
I had a lot of success with Solen Hepta-Litz inductors. I definitely preferred the Hepta-Litz to Alpha-core in my XO. Plus the Hepta-Litz DCR is closer to plain wire inductors than foil inductors, which can be important if you're substituting/upgrading from a normal air-core.
salas said:
I had a lot of success with Solen Hepta-Litz inductors. I definitely preferred the Hepta-Litz to Alpha-core in my XO. Plus the Hepta-Litz DCR is closer to plain wire inductors than foil inductors, which can be important if you're substituting/upgrading from a normal air-core.
soongsc said:
All this concern about inverting & non-inverting has me baffled... given that the abs phase of the software is essentially random (if any attention was paid in the 1st place) there is no right way. A switch is required so that the abs phase can be checked for each track (if you are lucky an album will be consistent from track-to-track)
dave
Re: Re: wire is wire
Yes, I have though about Litz wiring too! What guage size wiring do these inductors have? Are they smaller than the AlphaCore's?
audiobomber said:
Yes, I have though about Litz wiring too! What guage size wiring do these inductors have? Are they smaller than the AlphaCore's?
planet10 said:
In software, the polarity is determined by the sign bit of a word. Software designers don't change it unless specifically required. So whatever is sampled through the A/D is used. For hardware designers, generally designers feel the signal is a sine wave and polarity has no significance, so phase inverting designs might imerge to reduce part count.
If you can hear the difference, then check polarity, if not, there might be some other disortions in the system that mask the polarity effects.
soongsc said:
That assumes the mix is digitized... much of the software we get -- often the best stuff included -- never gets digitized (ie LP), and if it does, just before it gets made into a CD/SACD/DVD-A. The stuff that gets digitized usually goes thru at least an analog mic pre-amp and could be either in or out of absolute phase.
dave
planet10 said:
I guess you're right in this aspect, but normally if the phases are mixed up, the total mixed recording would sound weird as in most pop music with complicated instrumentation. I guess we just need to select what is used as a reference. I normally like Reference Recordings, other good recordings are in quantities these days.
Re: wire is wire
They come in 16ga (7 x 26 AWG), to 10ga (7 x 20 AWG) sizes. www.solen.ca
soongsc said:
They come in 16ga (7 x 26 AWG), to 10ga (7 x 20 AWG) sizes. www.solen.ca
Re: Re: wire is wire
Have you compared both the Hepta-Litz and the Alpha-core against each other? How different do they sound? (assuming DCR is corrected for)
audiobomber said:
Have you compared both the Hepta-Litz and the Alpha-core against each other? How different do they sound? (assuming DCR is corrected for)
Re: Re: Re: wire is wire
Yes, I compared 12ga Hepta vs. 12ga Alpha. The Solen closer to no inductor. The Goertz seemed to slow the bass a little, and it was slightly sibilant.
I did not compensate for DCR. IIRC, Solen was .12 ohms and Goertz was .08 ihms.
soongsc said:
Yes, I compared 12ga Hepta vs. 12ga Alpha. The Solen closer to no inductor. The Goertz seemed to slow the bass a little, and it was slightly sibilant.
I did not compensate for DCR. IIRC, Solen was .12 ohms and Goertz was .08 ihms.
Re: Re: Re: Re: wire is wire
What frequency range was this for? From the DCR it seems like a 0.5mH or so value?
audiobomber said:
What frequency range was this for? From the DCR it seems like a 0.5mH or so value?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wire is wire
I was trying to do a first-order two-way. The inductors were .39mH.
soongsc said:
I was trying to do a first-order two-way. The inductors were .39mH.
audiobomber said:
I haven't read the whole thread, but I think the compensation suggested for the JX92s varies with volume, so it is not a BSC, but rather a compensation to flatten out resonance impedance so that power can flow through and maintain good low freqjency response.
I have a few JX92s that I havent' had the time to get to yet, but I'm just starting to work it out.
I just recently got to understand what Mr. Jordans recommendations, and really appreciate those designs shedding light on lots of questions.
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