I'm very glad to see that my fellow country mates Supravox, Fertin and Phy-HP have all finally made efforts to have a website in English and a decent distributor network around the world.
I remember a few years ago when these great manufacturers just gave the impression to work only for their own pleasure and not for doing business. I kicked their ***** to better advertise their excellent products and as a very minimum, to have a website in English. In this country, we don't like foreign languages very much... Believe me, it must have cost them plenty of efforts to expand and publish in English; I'm sure they don't regret it.
Other french brands include http://www.davis-acoustics.com/gb/haut-parleurs.htm (some speakers have the potential to be full rangers if one manages to domesticate them...). Triangle used to make fabulous 6 or 7'' full rangers 15-20 years ago, but they've now followed another path. Audax industries also had a couple of interesting speakers with a potential as full rangers but they are fighting now for their survival. Focal/JM Lab never had any and it seems they don't sell individual speakers anymore anyway, except for automotive applications.
Chris.
I remember a few years ago when these great manufacturers just gave the impression to work only for their own pleasure and not for doing business. I kicked their ***** to better advertise their excellent products and as a very minimum, to have a website in English. In this country, we don't like foreign languages very much... Believe me, it must have cost them plenty of efforts to expand and publish in English; I'm sure they don't regret it.
Other french brands include http://www.davis-acoustics.com/gb/haut-parleurs.htm (some speakers have the potential to be full rangers if one manages to domesticate them...). Triangle used to make fabulous 6 or 7'' full rangers 15-20 years ago, but they've now followed another path. Audax industries also had a couple of interesting speakers with a potential as full rangers but they are fighting now for their survival. Focal/JM Lab never had any and it seems they don't sell individual speakers anymore anyway, except for automotive applications.
Chris.
I have a pair of funny plastic 8" , from Cabasse Dinghy
24b25c is name of the driver , and they sound just wonderful , even in plain Dinghy cab - which is crummy dimensioned BR box - not at all adequate for driver , which TS parameters shows that's for pure BLH
pic borrowed from one French site
too bad that Cabasse is not making them anymore ....
24b25c is name of the driver , and they sound just wonderful , even in plain Dinghy cab - which is crummy dimensioned BR box - not at all adequate for driver , which TS parameters shows that's for pure BLH
pic borrowed from one French site
too bad that Cabasse is not making them anymore ....
Attachments
elac310 said:
Chris,
Those websites are big improvements. But I think the biggest challenge that these small manufacturer's face is interacting with potential customers.
In the past, I tried to buy Supravox drivers after hearing a pair in a friend's system. I could not get a price quote or any estimate of delivery. Communication with the "local" dealer in Canada was painful. I gave up.
Later, I tried to buy some AER drivers from the US distributer. I could not get a response to e-mail inquiries. It was like my request disappeared into thin air. Again I gave up.
I found it amazing that I could not give my money to either representative. I ended up buying Lowther drivers from the two US distributors. Could not have been easier and the delivery and support have been excellent.
So my position is to eliminate consideration of any driver that does not have a strong and responsive US distributor no matter how good the driver and pricing. There is no way I am going to risk being stuck with an expensive hand made defective driver or a warrenty problem and not be able to quickly and easily resolve the issue with a US distributor.
I hope these small manufacturers succeed in setting up responsive dealers in the US. The Supravox drivers I heard were expensive but very good performers.
I suspect that may be the case, though my experiences are different and more limited. It will be interesting to see whether I receive a response to my email to PHY-HP regarding their little 6.3"-er; I have been waiting 3 days thus far... which is fine. I would like them to respond - this driver, if priced well, could suit many people's needs nicely.
In the past I have received prompt responses from Supravox, though concerns about build consistency prevented me from purchasing.
For some perspective:
I have been waiting for an email response from EcoLogic Acoustics (Canada and USA) for over a month, despite them claiming they are ready for action. DC Gold Audio provided an informative and seemingly honest same-day response.
Cheers
Raymond
rcdaniel said:
Is that fore real, or heresay roumors
Does it count fore all their drivers
Some of their drivers are relatively cheap, and I suppose they are no worse than similar drivers
Where does this information come from
How old is this information
Which drivers does it concern
But since you persist on that point, I suppose you know
I agree, some of the older models dont look so interesting
New later models looks far better, so it seems like they are improving
Would be nice to know which drivers you consider having problems
PHY match their drivers and sell in pairs, which means they have some consistency issues as well, as well as any other, but deals with it by matching
rcdaniel said:
Any time you buy a custom hand made driver, you really need to be capable of testing what the manufacturer/dealer sends you and it should be understood that you will return them if they are not up to spec or inconsistent. That should be made very clear at the time of purchase. That is why I always look for a solid local dealer who will resolve this type of problem without delay if it should arise. Not getting a prompt response to an e-mail is an accurate indicator that should not be ignored.
tinitus said:
My comments refer to events that occurred a few years ago. I had read some negative comments from 1st-hand users (experienced forum members) and one from a reviewer. The drivers were a couple of 215s and a 165; I can't remember the specific models. I don't *know* the full context, motivations, etc. of the people making the claims nor the actual condition of the drivers. Therefore, I can't say whether it is hearsay or rumour, not that I would presume to do so even if I (thought I) knew these things.
What I chose to do was to consider these comments in combination with more positive comments and some other factors. I then considered if the likelihood of a problem occurring and the likely cost ($ and time) of said problem would be worth me taking the risk. I decided not, at the time.
As for persisting the point and knowing, I am not sure what you mean by "persisting" or “know”. I have mentioned it twice (IIRC) in relevant threads, commenting that I have had some concerns. I meant what I said; my intention was to explain why I did not proceed with a purchase. As for knowing, I am not sure anyone could truly know.
Your point is taken that Supravox may have improved their build quality in recent times. I have stated in the past that their 165 GMF looks particularly interesting to me. There also seems to be renewed positive talk regarding their 215 EXC models. I may look into these again, though the PHY-HP is appealing to me at the moment.
I appreciate tradition, history, craftsmanship, passion, honesty, singularity of purpose, and uniqueness; I also value quality, in its technical sense. I wish the French driver manufacturers all the best. If they produce a driver with competitive cost : performance (i.e. product and service that meets my needs) I will put in my order. Actually, even if the cost is a little higher than the competition, I would likely pay the extra to support people who(m?) demonstrate those values I appreciate.
Kind regards
Raymond
@Tinitus
You're right, there is also EMS (I didn't know them....): http://www.emspeaker.fr/home_us.html
As the website says, the two 12" full rangers are derived from the Fertin's (EMS was founded by Mr Fertin's daughter). No frequ resp curves available but at least the info is available in ENG.
As we all know, Alian stands for the name of the French engineer Alain Bénard but I'm not quite sure whether they manufacture full range speakers besides their Ribbon tweeters (I never found a website).
My purpose was not to advertise for the French industry. There are of course other speaker manufacturers apart from those already mentioned (PHL Audio in particular, which are apparently easily available abroad, but no full rangers in the programme...)
But may be there are other small companies like EMS making full-rangers.....?
Chris.
You're right, there is also EMS (I didn't know them....): http://www.emspeaker.fr/home_us.html
As the website says, the two 12" full rangers are derived from the Fertin's (EMS was founded by Mr Fertin's daughter). No frequ resp curves available but at least the info is available in ENG.
As we all know, Alian stands for the name of the French engineer Alain Bénard but I'm not quite sure whether they manufacture full range speakers besides their Ribbon tweeters (I never found a website).
My purpose was not to advertise for the French industry. There are of course other speaker manufacturers apart from those already mentioned (PHL Audio in particular, which are apparently easily available abroad, but no full rangers in the programme...)
But may be there are other small companies like EMS making full-rangers.....?
Chris.
french make a good driver in the past ,I owned audax tpx and focal 5k, wonderful in 1985....
now I love my 215s bicone in OB better the my two way scanpeaks (15w-9800)
now I love my 215s bicone in OB better the my two way scanpeaks (15w-9800)
MJK, yes it is the outmost importance that you can trust the
person you're dealing with. Since, these are small compagnies
and in a foreign country, the after sale service must be perfect.
I've been involved with Fertin Acoustic and Emspeaker for some
years now, and I fully understand the importance of having
someone to answer your questions and deal with any problem
that might arise.
I make it a rule that everyone that deals with Fertin and Emspeaker
get complete satisfaction and you get an answer to your e-mail the
same day. If there's a problem it must be delt with as fast as possible.
I think it's important for North American audiophiles to have access
to these drivers.
Elac: Emspeaker will have a new interacting website in a couple
of weeks.
As for Fertin: Jean-Marie should do the same. He can't
keep up building the model 7 . The demand in Europe and Asia
is considerable but he should update his website...will I keep
telling him....
person you're dealing with. Since, these are small compagnies
and in a foreign country, the after sale service must be perfect.
I've been involved with Fertin Acoustic and Emspeaker for some
years now, and I fully understand the importance of having
someone to answer your questions and deal with any problem
that might arise.
I make it a rule that everyone that deals with Fertin and Emspeaker
get complete satisfaction and you get an answer to your e-mail the
same day. If there's a problem it must be delt with as fast as possible.
I think it's important for North American audiophiles to have access
to these drivers.
Elac: Emspeaker will have a new interacting website in a couple
of weeks.
As for Fertin: Jean-Marie should do the same. He can't
keep up building the model 7 . The demand in Europe and Asia
is considerable but he should update his website...will I keep
telling him....
lrntglls said:
🙂
I wont buy anything that I cant see, or lacks information
Im sure many feel the same way
I understand,
Having the specs and being able to listen would be the ideal
situation but sometime it's not always possible. You can talk with
the manufacturer about your concerns ( in a small compagny , it's
always a possibility) but the final decision always belongs to the
customer.
I would say that most customers haven't listen before buying.
From my knowledge, they are mostly experience audiophiles that
know what they want in audio. And from their comments ,this
wasn't a big problem either.
MJK is only partly right in recommending using only local distributors.
Being in a small country at the end of the world we don't have that luxury of limiting ourselves as he does, so have to deal with overseas suppliers all the time.
Which of course is what any local distributor does anyway.
Generally British and large American firms are well represented here, as of course the multinationals.
Smaller and medium size firms less well.
I have found that good service relates totally to that provided by original manufacturer, whether it be direct to the end user, or to the local distributor.
Take Lowther. The service in USA by the distributor seems to be good. However that provided directly by Lowther UK, the manufacturer, is also good. I can name other companies (in USA) that are just the reverse. So much so that the once-local distributor simply gave up on them. The manufacturer is now extinct.
Typically it is the medium size firms that cause the most problems, as they were set up before the internet made international trade so easy, and so think of terms of local users, rather than globally.
A local distributor can ease the end-users pain, he cannot work miracles. To limit yourself to only local suppliers may (or in my case - will) lead to a second-rate result.
By the way, when dealing with small firms from non-english speaking countries, using their language ( even if google translated) can help a hell of a lot. Small firms are usually also keen to get your business.
Being in a small country at the end of the world we don't have that luxury of limiting ourselves as he does, so have to deal with overseas suppliers all the time.
Which of course is what any local distributor does anyway.
Generally British and large American firms are well represented here, as of course the multinationals.
Smaller and medium size firms less well.
I have found that good service relates totally to that provided by original manufacturer, whether it be direct to the end user, or to the local distributor.
Take Lowther. The service in USA by the distributor seems to be good. However that provided directly by Lowther UK, the manufacturer, is also good. I can name other companies (in USA) that are just the reverse. So much so that the once-local distributor simply gave up on them. The manufacturer is now extinct.
Typically it is the medium size firms that cause the most problems, as they were set up before the internet made international trade so easy, and so think of terms of local users, rather than globally.
A local distributor can ease the end-users pain, he cannot work miracles. To limit yourself to only local suppliers may (or in my case - will) lead to a second-rate result.
By the way, when dealing with small firms from non-english speaking countries, using their language ( even if google translated) can help a hell of a lot. Small firms are usually also keen to get your business.
I haven't heard any of the French Fullrangers but over the years have heard and own Triangle,Focal,Cabasse and now building a active speaker using Raven & PHL .
Latter this year I'm going to hear the new Alian Benard ribbons 8" mids and the 21" & 29" bass drivers .
Most of the french drivers are SET friendly .
Cheers
Latter this year I'm going to hear the new Alian Benard ribbons 8" mids and the 21" & 29" bass drivers .
Most of the french drivers are SET friendly .
Cheers
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