Can you swim? That is supposed to be the best thing. I do KNOW that if something hurts that much... you probably shouldn't do it... especially knees.
All for now... I have to quit before the breathalyzer interlo
All for now... I have to quit before the breathalyzer interlo
Just getting over a back problem caused by a minor car accident and subsequent strain. This caused the cessation of my walking regimen, which caused an increase in weight, which caused knee pain when I went back to walking and then stationary bike, etc etc.Aengus said:
So rowing might not be the best exercise right now. However, the back is getting better, and when it is completely healed-it is not bad now-I will give a rowing machine a shot.
Things are not as bad as they seem. I put the icebags on my knees last night,and my legs feel better already. I have no doubt that a few sessions with the ice bag and I can resume the exercise regimen I had. When I do resume it, I intend to put the icebag on after every session as a way of preventing pain from building up in the first place. So I just want to streamline the icing or cooling process a bit, which was becoming unmanageable.
Aengus said:
Looks just what I need. Thank you, thank you , thank you. We have a lot of boating stores around here, so I will check this out tomorrow.
PS: Why do they call them drybags if they are suitable for icewater?
Didn't see this post, just wanted to mention one mythbusters experiment... they looked for the quickest way to cool a can of beer.... and it was by submerging it in a mixture of icewater and salt...
As for pain management.. I find ice a strange choice... heat I can understand, as the chemical messenger that carries the heat message in cells, blocks the chemical messenger for pain which is released when cells are dying or damaged....
As for pain management.. I find ice a strange choice... heat I can understand, as the chemical messenger that carries the heat message in cells, blocks the chemical messenger for pain which is released when cells are dying or damaged....
Why do short people passengers move the seat forward in the car?
I can relate to the vicious back/exercise/weight circle thing. Attack the blood pressure through food as well.
Send a PM for my buttered bacon and fontina cheese sandwich recipe. Remember, Whisky has zero carbs and fat.
😉
kelticwizard said:
Pain above the knee is a sign that your saddle is too low. You also may want to try shorter crankarms if possible, to reduce the range of motion of your knees.
Max
My purely empirical answer to the ice thing is to consider ice-cream machines (the domestic, non-refrigerated kind). They almost invariably use an ice/salt mixture, so I guess that's been found to work best in practice - and corresponds with the findings quoted by Nordic.
Nordic said:
Nordic:
A friend who ran cross country in high school gave me one of his books, so here is the explanation circa mid 70's. Whether it has changed or not, I don't know.
Pain comes from swelling-sometimes the kind of swelling that is not visible. When a muscle is hurt, prostaglandins are released in the area and they just lay around, causing swelling and pain. When you first apply cold. in the first six minutes or so your skin will turn white, (assuming you are not dark skinned in the first place), because blood is not flowing in the area. However, after six minutes or so a reaction kicks in, blood comes gushing into the cooled area and your skin turns deep red. This onrushing blood has the same effect as a high pressure fire hose cleaning out a tunnel, and the prostaglandins get flushed away. As a result, swelling subsides and pain ceases.
Over the years, cold has worked on aching joints in a way that heat could not approach.
maxro said:
Thank you for that advice. After my knees feel good and I resume the stationary bike, I shall heighten the seat adjustment and see how that works.
dnsey said:
Not a bad idea. I thought about it myself, and the semi-frozen dessert might well be ideal medium for the therapy.
Only problem is that the whole idea of this exercise thing is to get the weight down, and I am not sure a brand new ice cream maker in the house will serve that purpose very well, even if I manage to refrain from consuming the medium which just cooled my knees.
😀
poobah said:
So was I.
I put the mixture according to the proportions SY gave for six hours. Freezer temp: 12 deg Fahrenheit. Saltwater temp in icebag: 16 deg F.
I applied the icebags to the knees dry. After a few minutes, it seemed a little too cold to bear, so I put a dry towel, single thickness, between the bag and my knees. This allowed little cold through, so I got rid of it after a minute or so.
Total time bag was on knees: 24 minutes
Total cooling time: approxiately 21 minutes.
After I put the bags back directly on the skin, there was no sense of being too frigid.
At the end of the session, (21 minutes), the water temp in the one quart bags was 42 degrees. Which seems a little warm.
The knees seem chilled, they are red, which is good. I don't get the sense of a really deep chill I get from icewater. Perhaps putting a wet towel on the knees when using saltwater will improve things.
Conclusion: Putting salt water in the bag and applying the bags to the knees dry is somewhat effective, but not as effective as the icewater. However, there are things to try which might improve the method.
Maybe you could try cryo-treating your knees for a permanent fix. I hear it works wonders on cables.
max
max
I was semi-serious about the frost bite... I make ice cream around here... amazing how cold the salt makes things... hurts!
😉
😉
I was worried about it, too. Especially when the temperature of the saltwater was 16 deg F. I think I tried saltwater in the plastic food storage bags years ago, and it was too frigid to apply to the skin.
I think the latex coated fabric probably does not conduct the heat or cold as well as the plastic bags I was using, so the full bite of the cold saltwater doesn't get transmitted.
I think the latex coated fabric probably does not conduct the heat or cold as well as the plastic bags I was using, so the full bite of the cold saltwater doesn't get transmitted.
Alright, here's the story as I understand it from my experience with such things.
The extra cold salt water is certainly easier to manage but only does as good of a job as the ice if you are continually changing out the liquid over the treatment time to maintain an optimum temperature.
The ice water is by far and away the best treatment option as it maintains the optimum treatment temperature for a long time. The larger ice cubes are preferred over the smaller one as they won't melt as quickly (may or may not be a problem) due to less surface area exposed to the thermal transfer medium (the water).
Ice is still the preferred treatment option for the first hours after an injury as it does indeed reduce swelling and causes a few other things to take place also. If after the first 24 hours (there is some debate over this, I've heard anywhere between 12 and 48 hours but 24 hours seems to be the most widely accepted and also a reasonable compromise) there is still a need for treatment you then switch to treatment with heat.
Hope that helps.
The extra cold salt water is certainly easier to manage but only does as good of a job as the ice if you are continually changing out the liquid over the treatment time to maintain an optimum temperature.
The ice water is by far and away the best treatment option as it maintains the optimum treatment temperature for a long time. The larger ice cubes are preferred over the smaller one as they won't melt as quickly (may or may not be a problem) due to less surface area exposed to the thermal transfer medium (the water).
Ice is still the preferred treatment option for the first hours after an injury as it does indeed reduce swelling and causes a few other things to take place also. If after the first 24 hours (there is some debate over this, I've heard anywhere between 12 and 48 hours but 24 hours seems to be the most widely accepted and also a reasonable compromise) there is still a need for treatment you then switch to treatment with heat.
Hope that helps.
Back in highschool,a friend and I used to keep a couple big ziplock bags full of water+rubbing/isopropyl alcohol in the freezer..The alcohol won't freeze (in the average freezer,anyways) and it keeps it kinda 'slushy'..
We got kinda wild while playing football,and while riding our BMX/freestyle bikes..Ice packs were essential. 😉
We got kinda wild while playing football,and while riding our BMX/freestyle bikes..Ice packs were essential. 😉
They are normally used for keeping the stuff inside them dry (while lashed to the deck of a kayak or just down in the bilge of small craft).
Aengus
I'm afraid your friend's book is a little old... although the findings on the relationship between heat and pain messengers were only published this year to the best of my knowledge... You'll soon see medication using this newfound knowledge..
Just to qualify myself as someone well familiar with pain, I am currently medicaly boarded due to A.S. http://www.kickas.org
Just to qualify myself as someone well familiar with pain, I am currently medicaly boarded due to A.S. http://www.kickas.org
I have had knee troubles all my life and have always used a bag of frozen peas. Just make sure you mark them so no one uses them for food. Good for about 50 uses.
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