update
I have added a second deqx, and converted the mains to a four way (plus stereo subs).
I am wary of being too wordy,,as is my wont..hope not to bore you all tis all.
Decided as an experiment a year or so ago to see what would happen if I added a ten inch lower mid, and subs. That required me to spend some dosh and have the second unit modded to digital out.
Thankfully, Brett (a member here) loaned me a set of AE tens to try. That minimised the expense of the experiment as I could always stay as I was. He also lent me two pro amps so if it was a bust all it cost me was the deqx mod.
Being brief, obviously the experiment was successful enough to bite the bullet and buy some PHL tens (natch!) and go for it.
I was quite surprised to find how much improved it was, I guess it may be down to helping the dispersion etc by putting a ten between the 18 and 6.5??
Anyway, all aspects were improved, particularly my 'need' in audio, ambience and listener envelopment. What was a complete surprise was how much more vocals I heard! I hadn't known just how many tracks have backing vocals quite low down in the mix.
The envelopment is staggering, sounds just swirl all around, it can be disorienting at times. Quite a few people have asked 'where are the rear speakers?', some where serious, the others rhetorical.
Another surprise perhaps was just how much subs/bass add to the ambience. I seem to find that the bass acts as some sort of carrier wave for the rest of the spectrum, so the more enveloping the bass (distributed bass sources) then the greater the envelopment of the rest of the spectrum, even tho that has not been touched at all.
I have only just started setting up this configuration, for example I have yet to add the subs (two maelstrom 18's) but is certainly showing a lot of potential.
Enough talk, just a few pics. It was a squeeze to fit in the ten, but with careful measuring I felt I could successfully fit them in.
As mentioned earlier, the baffle comes off, so I had to make sure I could fit them into the new baffle, as I was NOT interested in making new speakers! Tight shoehorn fit, but there ya go.
I was lazy, and so just covered the baffle with vinyl (as the back is). If I get enthusiastic some time in the future I can take the baffles off and veneer them. I think the veneer does look better, but really it is only because I have seen them with veneer ...what I mean is they look quite good with vinyl and it is only with hindsight that you can prefer one over the other.
Enough from me, here are a few pics.
dunno why the different sizes, but what the heck!
I have added a second deqx, and converted the mains to a four way (plus stereo subs).
I am wary of being too wordy,,as is my wont..hope not to bore you all tis all.
Decided as an experiment a year or so ago to see what would happen if I added a ten inch lower mid, and subs. That required me to spend some dosh and have the second unit modded to digital out.
Thankfully, Brett (a member here) loaned me a set of AE tens to try. That minimised the expense of the experiment as I could always stay as I was. He also lent me two pro amps so if it was a bust all it cost me was the deqx mod.
Being brief, obviously the experiment was successful enough to bite the bullet and buy some PHL tens (natch!) and go for it.
I was quite surprised to find how much improved it was, I guess it may be down to helping the dispersion etc by putting a ten between the 18 and 6.5??
Anyway, all aspects were improved, particularly my 'need' in audio, ambience and listener envelopment. What was a complete surprise was how much more vocals I heard! I hadn't known just how many tracks have backing vocals quite low down in the mix.
The envelopment is staggering, sounds just swirl all around, it can be disorienting at times. Quite a few people have asked 'where are the rear speakers?', some where serious, the others rhetorical.
Another surprise perhaps was just how much subs/bass add to the ambience. I seem to find that the bass acts as some sort of carrier wave for the rest of the spectrum, so the more enveloping the bass (distributed bass sources) then the greater the envelopment of the rest of the spectrum, even tho that has not been touched at all.
I have only just started setting up this configuration, for example I have yet to add the subs (two maelstrom 18's) but is certainly showing a lot of potential.
Enough talk, just a few pics. It was a squeeze to fit in the ten, but with careful measuring I felt I could successfully fit them in.
As mentioned earlier, the baffle comes off, so I had to make sure I could fit them into the new baffle, as I was NOT interested in making new speakers! Tight shoehorn fit, but there ya go.
I was lazy, and so just covered the baffle with vinyl (as the back is). If I get enthusiastic some time in the future I can take the baffles off and veneer them. I think the veneer does look better, but really it is only because I have seen them with veneer ...what I mean is they look quite good with vinyl and it is only with hindsight that you can prefer one over the other.
Enough from me, here are a few pics.
dunno why the different sizes, but what the heck!
Flat surrounds, low mass vs. sd = low energy storage in the lower midband.
(..though the price to pay is always excursion potential.)Bet the impression of depth (in relation to "images") improved as well .
Not an issue even at Terry levels. I don't even recall seeing the 6 move and I've never seen more than a couple of mm from the 18, and that has a lot of EQ from the DEQX to get it flat.
I think I might invite myself up in the next few weeks and see the old fella and have a listen to them in the one box solution.
Wow......someone from another forum mentioned this thread and I am glad I found it. What a great build.
I was just thinking also about building a 3 way with an 18. Was thinking of using the 1120 from PHL but now I am curious about the 10 from PHL.
What is the 10's Hpas and crossover to the 6.5?
And when does the 6.5 come in and end?
I have a lot more questions but these will do for now. I really need to make a trip out east and here some of these builds that others have. Then that will actually save me quite a bit on my wallet.
I was just thinking also about building a 3 way with an 18. Was thinking of using the 1120 from PHL but now I am curious about the 10 from PHL.
What is the 10's Hpas and crossover to the 6.5?
And when does the 6.5 come in and end?
I have a lot more questions but these will do for now. I really need to make a trip out east and here some of these builds that others have. Then that will actually save me quite a bit on my wallet.
There is a company, I suppose based in the US, that makes what they call Neatform Bendy MDF, or bendable 1/4 inch MDF. On one side of the sheet are closely spaced parallel cuts to a depth of about 1/8 inch.
I've never personally worked with their bendy MDF, it isn't widely available in stores. But maybe making parallel cuts to one side of a section of MDF with a table saw would be a method that you could have used? One negative I suppose is that it won't hold a curved shape by itself as your formed MDF (your method with ammonia and pressure) did.
I've never personally worked with their bendy MDF, it isn't widely available in stores. But maybe making parallel cuts to one side of a section of MDF with a table saw would be a method that you could have used? One negative I suppose is that it won't hold a curved shape by itself as your formed MDF (your method with ammonia and pressure) did.
I have seen many builds with "kerfed," MDF using 18mm sheets. Most people who kerf the MDF then put something back over the kerfed area after the MDF is in place. This basically fills in the holes.
http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/w05.jpg
That is four sheets of MDF. Not saying those are 18mm but you can see what I am talking about.
http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/w05.jpg
That is four sheets of MDF. Not saying those are 18mm but you can see what I am talking about.
bit of a surprise to see this one resurrected.
thanks for the words!
I run the tens from around 180 up to 800 when of co9urse it crosses to the 6.5's.
I like to cross my tweeters quite low (use steep slopes to help protect them) so I only run the 6.5 to 2k usually.
That seems to be the odd one out don't it....only 800-2k. Still, sounds good.
Stupid me blew the tweeter (again, sigh) just last week, so am running a rough and ready peerless tweeter for noise. I only mention this because atm I am crossing to the (lesser) tweeter at 4k rather than my usual 2k, and am surprised how good it sounds, so maybe a little bit of experimenting and questioning my assumptions are in order soon.
Just glanced at my post above, suffice to say that I am now running the subs as well.
Guess you're in perth or some such??
Been following this thread for a while. Finally can throw in my 2c.
Maybe try a tweeter with a waveguide, this time...? Should give you a bit more headroom at the low end. I'm currently using a SEAS DXT. I can't say with any authority that it will match your system, though. I do suspect that a compression tweeter might be a better match for your drivers.
Maybe try a tweeter with a waveguide, this time...? Should give you a bit more headroom at the low end. I'm currently using a SEAS DXT. I can't say with any authority that it will match your system, though. I do suspect that a compression tweeter might be a better match for your drivers.
I am in Adelaide myself.
Where did you buy your PHL stuff from?
SO far I having been thinking of a few different options for myself. The hardest thing for me is going to be the design of the cabinet. The look of a 6.5" driver and then a 15 or 18 is just.......out of order looking for me. Dumb but if there was a ten in there it would LOOK better to me. Might not sound better but I am just going by looks.
Was thinking of a tapered look also for my build which would be pear shaped sort of. The tweeter and 6.5 would be in a smaller shaped cabinet and then get bigger as it goes to the bass portions.
Either way I am sorry to hear about your blown tweeter but at least you had an extra sitting around. I will be using the TPL-150 from Beyma because it can handle what I want to throw at it. LOL
Where did you buy your PHL stuff from?
SO far I having been thinking of a few different options for myself. The hardest thing for me is going to be the design of the cabinet. The look of a 6.5" driver and then a 15 or 18 is just.......out of order looking for me. Dumb but if there was a ten in there it would LOOK better to me. Might not sound better but I am just going by looks.
Was thinking of a tapered look also for my build which would be pear shaped sort of. The tweeter and 6.5 would be in a smaller shaped cabinet and then get bigger as it goes to the bass portions.
Either way I am sorry to hear about your blown tweeter but at least you had an extra sitting around.
I will be using the TPL-150 from Beyma because it can handle what I want to throw at it. LOLah yes, the continual tweeter problem haha.
nah, this time it WAS me being stupid, so not that fussed, and only thirty bucks for the new vc.
besides, don' really want any new building so to speak, so anythiung has to be a drop in replacement. Rules out compression drivers? (space is very limited internally too)
It (truly) is easier if I simply stop being silly!
I get the PHL from Pat at war audio in perth. I get the thing about looks, not that I really care if it looks rough, but the big thing was exactly what you mention, 'how do I get it looking halfway normal?' given a hulking great 18 in there.
It was obviously not quite there for you, but in the end I was extremely happy with the final shape and all, to my eyes it managed to hide the 18 well. Adding the ten did help the looks tho.
The description you give reminds me of the original build here!! Sounds exactly like the shape of these boxes haha.
anyway, if you manage to get up from adelaide give us a bell..maybe send me an email, I hardly ever check in to forums so it was lucky I caught this...and almost never post anymore..and I'd be more than happy for you to have a listen if that is what you wanted. Heck, we'd even get brett out too!
just out of curiosity, have you got a 'roadtrip' aLREADY IN MIND ?? IE, HAVE AN IDEA OF WHICH DIFFERENT SYSTEMS YOU'D LIKE TO CATCH OUT East? )bloody caps lock, not going to fix it so sorry
nah, this time it WAS me being stupid, so not that fussed, and only thirty bucks for the new vc.
besides, don' really want any new building so to speak, so anythiung has to be a drop in replacement. Rules out compression drivers? (space is very limited internally too)
It (truly) is easier if I simply stop being silly!
I get the PHL from Pat at war audio in perth. I get the thing about looks, not that I really care if it looks rough, but the big thing was exactly what you mention, 'how do I get it looking halfway normal?' given a hulking great 18 in there.
It was obviously not quite there for you, but in the end I was extremely happy with the final shape and all, to my eyes it managed to hide the 18 well. Adding the ten did help the looks tho.
The description you give reminds me of the original build here!! Sounds exactly like the shape of these boxes haha.
anyway, if you manage to get up from adelaide give us a bell..maybe send me an email, I hardly ever check in to forums so it was lucky I caught this...and almost never post anymore..and I'd be more than happy for you to have a listen if that is what you wanted. Heck, we'd even get brett out too!
just out of curiosity, have you got a 'roadtrip' aLREADY IN MIND ?? IE, HAVE AN IDEA OF WHICH DIFFERENT SYSTEMS YOU'D LIKE TO CATCH OUT East? )bloody caps lock, not going to fix it so sorry
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There where a few people such as Antripodean or A9X(AE speakers), and then there are a few others in NSW that all have some home theaters they are building. SO I am not sure where exactly you are but A9X did say he has heard your system. SO I am not familiar with your area so I am not sure who all is near you.
But that being said I still have to wait some months from now before I can take an adventure.
Either way hearing is much better than timeless simulating as I have been doing.
Oh and why did you use the 7030 instead of the 7010? I know you have had these speakers for a while so maybe it was not out yet.
Either way thanks for the invite. That would be awesome to hear your Cindy's.
But that being said I still have to wait some months from now before I can take an adventure.
Either way hearing is much better than timeless simulating as I have been doing.
Oh and why did you use the 7030 instead of the 7010? I know you have had these speakers for a while so maybe it was not out yet.
Either way thanks for the invite. That would be awesome to hear your Cindy's.
Hmm, if I tried real hard I am sure I could get A9X to pop around too if that would be of interest to you.
I'm at bathurst, not really near sydney (2.5 jrs or so from there). Dunno from which forum you came from, but not too many systems out this way. There are a few in the mountains now, so if you were from sna you could certainly line up quite a few there. A couple have very good reviews and one in particular has quite a strong fan base. I am not that far from the mountains, so it is starting to look a bit better when we take them into account.
Maybe if there are other members on diya that would be happy to accomodate your big adventure they could chip in.
Ha, I assume the 7030 is the ten I am using? I spoke to Pat about it all, and after considering the xover points likely to be used we decided on this one. It is (afaik) the 'more dedicated' upper bass/lower mid (whichever it is) than any of the others. Eg, it chould not be used under 200 if memory serves..tho we can throw that out the window with the deqx...but illustrates the point. It has a foam surround rather than pleated for example, so very little xmax but optimised for sound quality blah blah blah.
Goes with my 6.5 really, it too is foam surround, the dedicated mid range driver they make yada yada.
For sure, don't be shy if you come up this way, give a holler. Am pretty confident that whatever you think about the sound overall,somewhere in there it should be a blast for you on ....some level at least.
Have to be honest, it has stayed as Frank and thankfully Cindy has not taken off
I'm at bathurst, not really near sydney (2.5 jrs or so from there). Dunno from which forum you came from, but not too many systems out this way. There are a few in the mountains now, so if you were from sna you could certainly line up quite a few there. A couple have very good reviews and one in particular has quite a strong fan base. I am not that far from the mountains, so it is starting to look a bit better when we take them into account.
Maybe if there are other members on diya that would be happy to accomodate your big adventure they could chip in.
Ha, I assume the 7030 is the ten I am using? I spoke to Pat about it all, and after considering the xover points likely to be used we decided on this one. It is (afaik) the 'more dedicated' upper bass/lower mid (whichever it is) than any of the others. Eg, it chould not be used under 200 if memory serves..tho we can throw that out the window with the deqx...but illustrates the point. It has a foam surround rather than pleated for example, so very little xmax but optimised for sound quality blah blah blah.
Goes with my 6.5 really, it too is foam surround, the dedicated mid range driver they make yada yada.
For sure, don't be shy if you come up this way, give a holler. Am pretty confident that whatever you think about the sound overall,somewhere in there it should be a blast for you on ....some level at least.
Have to be honest, it has stayed as Frank and thankfully Cindy has not taken off
HAhahaha. I was commenting on your 18.(7030) I looked at the 7010 and just wondered why you chose the 7030 instead of the 7010.
Well being that I have four children I will still have to wait some months from now but I am definitely going to make the trip your way. PLUS the wifey doesn't like to let me out too often. LOL .....PLUS I would have to find some stuff for the family to do while I was there.
The other friends were from the AVS forum. But I would just go to hear your stuff and A9X's. That would be enough for me to hear and decide on what to buy from there.
And what kind of power are you using for your 4 way?
I plan on having an amp for each section of my 3/4 way.
Well being that I have four children I will still have to wait some months from now but I am definitely going to make the trip your way. PLUS the wifey doesn't like to let me out too often. LOL .....PLUS I would have to find some stuff for the family to do while I was there.
The other friends were from the AVS forum. But I would just go to hear your stuff and A9X's. That would be enough for me to hear and decide on what to buy from there.
And what kind of power are you using for your 4 way?
I plan on having an amp for each section of my 3/4 way.
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