Hi everyone;
I want to build a pair of subs to match my La Scalas. Strictly music. I am a skilled carpenter and I want a higher end driver, I don't want a driver with super high xmax. something fast with little distortion. I want to build a box designed for a specific driver, it can be any size. Any thoughts? and I did see a similar thread here but didnt give much info
I want to build a pair of subs to match my La Scalas. Strictly music. I am a skilled carpenter and I want a higher end driver, I don't want a driver with super high xmax. something fast with little distortion. I want to build a box designed for a specific driver, it can be any size. Any thoughts? and I did see a similar thread here but didnt give much info
You would want a design that extends cleanly to about 100 Hz or above to blend seamlessly with lascalas
For your application, I'd recommend folded horns (as you have indicated) over over tapped horns as many tapped horns start getting funky above 70 -80 Hz . They also tend to be less efficient .
Ive used a single table tuba horn with my Klipsch belles before and it worked very well.
For music only i.e. nothing below 45 Hz , I prefer the punchier / cleaner sound of the T18 (RIP after a friend dropped it on the curb)
Either of these designs will cost you a few $ for the plan but the drivers are cheap and fairly straightforward to build and will do what you want .
There are probably other / better designs out here but these 2 will do what you want .. I can vouch for them. FWIW, MONE USED TTE OLDER McM 8 inch driver .. haven't used the newer drivers
For your application, I'd recommend folded horns (as you have indicated) over over tapped horns as many tapped horns start getting funky above 70 -80 Hz . They also tend to be less efficient .
Ive used a single table tuba horn with my Klipsch belles before and it worked very well.
For music only i.e. nothing below 45 Hz , I prefer the punchier / cleaner sound of the T18 (RIP after a friend dropped it on the curb)
Either of these designs will cost you a few $ for the plan but the drivers are cheap and fairly straightforward to build and will do what you want .
There are probably other / better designs out here but these 2 will do what you want .. I can vouch for them. FWIW, MONE USED TTE OLDER McM 8 inch driver .. haven't used the newer drivers
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Whatever design you pick, .. make sure you have about some overlap in usable response between the sub and the mains i.e. if your mains make it down to 80 Hz, .. don't pick a sub that has bad response above 80 Hz (rather pick a design that can respond a bit higher .. say 100 -120Hz .
I made this mistake many years ago trying for example to integrate a THAM 12 tapped horn with some 150 Hz horns at 150 Hz ... there was just something missing between 150 - 200 Hz
I think that's why my table tuba and klipsch lascala / belle speakers work so well , . .the rolling off sub enhances the natural roll of of lascala / belles starting around 100 Hz and below .
I made this mistake many years ago trying for example to integrate a THAM 12 tapped horn with some 150 Hz horns at 150 Hz ... there was just something missing between 150 - 200 Hz
I think that's why my table tuba and klipsch lascala / belle speakers work so well , . .the rolling off sub enhances the natural roll of of lascala / belles starting around 100 Hz and below .
Ok, I thought they went a little lower. I don't care about the whole 20hz thing personally. It does sound fun but it would be for nothing in my case. I will gladly pay for plans but now I want to do a little more research into OB before I commit. thank you for you reply
zobsky, I'm curious why you think the t18 is cleaner than the table tuba. Does the t18 have a less peaky response? I enjoy my BFM davids towers that are basically two autotubas so I'll vouch for the BFM horns.
Klipsch lascalas / belles cease being horn loaded below about 100 Hz . Anything you get below that is a freebie courtesy of room gain and or the sealed rear chamber ... So that is a bit of a variable, so to speak.
La Scala go down to 60HZ or so, but aren't horn loaded at that frequency. From memory, they are horn loaded to around 100HZ. For a cleaner sounding blend between the La Scala and your sub, pick a sub that goes higher than that and cross over at 100HZ. Ideally you would use a sub that is also horn loaded. I don't have the room for a pair of horn subs, so I use a pair of DIY sealed sonotube subs, which work well, and allow for a higher crossover point if desired.
One issue to look out for is that a higher crossover point requires either a symmetrically placed single sub or a pair of subs with one placed next to each main speaker. I have tried single subs placed to one side or the other, and you need to keep the crossover point below about 50Hz, or it will mess up the balance of your soundstage.
The T18 just had a bit punchier sound and rolled off reasonably fast below 40 Hz so didn't excite room modes etc as much as my table tuba. For bass heavy music or HT, i preferred my TT over my T18 but still, .. there's something I like better about the T18 .. can't quite put my finger on it .
I built an autotuba sometime around 2005 . It was decent .. but in hindsight , it was the worst of the 3 .. not as deep response as the TT and not as punchy or compact as the T18 . Sounded great in a car, though
choices include adding a 2 cubic foot riser below your La Scala, horn with appropriate 1/4 wave path, and if brave - do what Exemplar did and take the Karlson K15 and tune it to around 30Hz treating the low end like a 6th order reflex by applying boost at tuning.
The riser might raise your LS about 10". I think the weight of the cabinet would be sufficient to hold it on the riser but am not sure (Zobsky should know).
Look at this discussion on the vented La Scala
La Scala Mod Project Completed - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
T18 should make a good little corner horn
Two 3"ID PVC elbow are all you need for one low-tuned K15. They can be mounted on a board which fits over the original vent, allowing going back to regular Karlson duty.
I have FH1 and would love to get rid of them to allow playing with K and other toys.
The riser might raise your LS about 10". I think the weight of the cabinet would be sufficient to hold it on the riser but am not sure (Zobsky should know).
Look at this discussion on the vented La Scala
La Scala Mod Project Completed - Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
T18 should make a good little corner horn
Two 3"ID PVC elbow are all you need for one low-tuned K15. They can be mounted on a board which fits over the original vent, allowing going back to regular Karlson duty.
I have FH1 and would love to get rid of them to allow playing with K and other toys.
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Hi Freddi,
...I attempted DJK (RIP)riser mod - with mixed results (despite boost etc)
It did result in more bass ... but not the knock-yer-socks-off results that I was expecting. The one thing it did do was wring out enough bass to make it easier to integrate with a sub 🙂
tuned K-15 should be fun - but I haven't ever tried it so I can't comment. Don't have the wall space for it right now.
How low / high does it go ? I have a few eminence C15W and crites cast woofers sitting around as well as a single university C-15 W (Fs probably too high for sub duty)
...I attempted DJK (RIP)riser mod - with mixed results (despite boost etc)
It did result in more bass ... but not the knock-yer-socks-off results that I was expecting. The one thing it did do was wring out enough bass to make it easier to integrate with a sub 🙂
tuned K-15 should be fun - but I haven't ever tried it so I can't comment. Don't have the wall space for it right now.
How low / high does it go ? I have a few eminence C15W and crites cast woofers sitting around as well as a single university C-15 W (Fs probably too high for sub duty)
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k15 with an Altec 416Z gave decent support to about 22Hz, I ran it with only 15 watts from a JC Penney trash-bin receiver bi-amped with a K12 with Jensen/Knight weak motor coax on the other channel. That was the best "bass" I heard in that room on theater organ CD's. (and magnitudes better than 10" Eclipse in 10ft T-lines)
Perhaps the magic is due to the linear/reasonably low mass Altec driver? An Eminence 15 with 109 oz motor in a vented box the size of K15's rear chamber sounded crude in comparison. (both that vented box and K15 were tuned around 30Hz and both had the same LF boost via an old EV Interface EQ box)
Vented rear chamber horn might (?) fare better with higher tuning ?
Photo of Exemplar's subwoofer courtesy of Six Moons. It was mentioned in the second part of Sound Practices Exemplar article and IIRC (?), John Tucker used a low fs Altec 515.
K15's front chamber tuning seems centered around 110Hz - how might that matter with 80Hz xover?
Perhaps the magic is due to the linear/reasonably low mass Altec driver? An Eminence 15 with 109 oz motor in a vented box the size of K15's rear chamber sounded crude in comparison. (both that vented box and K15 were tuned around 30Hz and both had the same LF boost via an old EV Interface EQ box)
Vented rear chamber horn might (?) fare better with higher tuning ?
Photo of Exemplar's subwoofer courtesy of Six Moons. It was mentioned in the second part of Sound Practices Exemplar article and IIRC (?), John Tucker used a low fs Altec 515.
K15's front chamber tuning seems centered around 110Hz - how might that matter with 80Hz xover?
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