There's a huge variety of glues for speaker assembly, from hard epoxies to ultra-soft adhesives. Hernon, CP Moyen, and Loctite are 3 of the larger suppliers.
We have ~12 different glues we use here, depending upon what's getting bonded, design criteria, etc. Different glues are used for the surround/basket junction on subs than are used on midranges simply because of edge termination, for example.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
We have ~12 different glues we use here, depending upon what's getting bonded, design criteria, etc. Different glues are used for the surround/basket junction on subs than are used on midranges simply because of edge termination, for example.
Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio
I know your interest is in foam vs rubber, however have you considered accordian edge?
The reason I am bringing this up is because they last forever!
I cannot use anything rubber in my home because I also enjoy the clean bacteria free air that my room ionizer/ozone generator creates for me and that will destroy anything foam or rubber in a matter of a few short weeks. Ozone occurs naturally in nature and is why your original surrounds disintegrated...
The reason I am bringing this up is because they last forever!
I cannot use anything rubber in my home because I also enjoy the clean bacteria free air that my room ionizer/ozone generator creates for me and that will destroy anything foam or rubber in a matter of a few short weeks. Ozone occurs naturally in nature and is why your original surrounds disintegrated...
morbo said:
Yes in fact most everything made out of rubber that is exposed to air does deteriorate with time to the best of my knowledge. Thats what causes tires to crack after sitting for several years.
I am sure there are some types that deteriorate much slower than others. I was only trying to make the point that accordian edge is much more stable than rubber or foam especially in an oxygenated environment that the ozone/ionizers provide.
For those who own some form surrounded speakers & hope they can last longer, here is my experience.
I've owned a pair of EV DL18W woofers which have form surrounds. I treated them with silicon oil (somewhat thick oil). They are now still fresh, just like they were when I bought them in '95.
The oil is the same as that in the liquid-filled gauge on my car. (I assume maybe all such liquid-filled mechanical pressure guages contain such oil for damping)
I'm not sure if the orginal surrounds are already "treated" for lasting long or not, since they are professional drivers. But the supplier told me normally the surrounds would last no more than 5 years.
( I've also noticed many professional driver brands make their mid-bass units with fabric surrounds & low-bass units with form ones.... )
I've owned a pair of EV DL18W woofers which have form surrounds. I treated them with silicon oil (somewhat thick oil). They are now still fresh, just like they were when I bought them in '95.
The oil is the same as that in the liquid-filled gauge on my car. (I assume maybe all such liquid-filled mechanical pressure guages contain such oil for damping)
I'm not sure if the orginal surrounds are already "treated" for lasting long or not, since they are professional drivers. But the supplier told me normally the surrounds would last no more than 5 years.
( I've also noticed many professional driver brands make their mid-bass units with fabric surrounds & low-bass units with form ones.... )
Need some help with my AR-94's
Hey Folks,
I recently found some decent looking AR-94's at one of the local swap shops. The cabinets and cloth look great, but the surrounds need replacing on all four woofers and someone has pushed in the dust covers on the tweeters.
I have done some reading on here and another site, and I think I am going to stick with the foam, for replacing the surrounds on these speakers. I may let the tweeters go as they are and see how they sound.
If someone has a thought or two on replacement tweeters or fixing the dust covers, please feel free to comment.
One one of the other articles that I read on these speakers, someone referred to replacing the binding posts on the bottom of the speakers. Mine are actually the push button type, and I do not have that square foam outline around the tweeters that I have seen in other pictures of AR-94's during my net surfing.
Does the absence of that foam material and having the push button type connectors mean that my pair are either older versions or newer ones?
I am in the US and am now looking for someone that does a lot of refoaming on these. Anyone got a suggestion on who to deal with and who to stay away from.
last thing. By today's sound standards of decent speakers, would these units compete with that kind of sound, or are these simply great sounding and sometimes sought after speakers?
Many thanks in advance,
JP
ironhorsenva@yahoo.com
Hey Folks,
I recently found some decent looking AR-94's at one of the local swap shops. The cabinets and cloth look great, but the surrounds need replacing on all four woofers and someone has pushed in the dust covers on the tweeters.
I have done some reading on here and another site, and I think I am going to stick with the foam, for replacing the surrounds on these speakers. I may let the tweeters go as they are and see how they sound.
If someone has a thought or two on replacement tweeters or fixing the dust covers, please feel free to comment.
One one of the other articles that I read on these speakers, someone referred to replacing the binding posts on the bottom of the speakers. Mine are actually the push button type, and I do not have that square foam outline around the tweeters that I have seen in other pictures of AR-94's during my net surfing.
Does the absence of that foam material and having the push button type connectors mean that my pair are either older versions or newer ones?
I am in the US and am now looking for someone that does a lot of refoaming on these. Anyone got a suggestion on who to deal with and who to stay away from.
last thing. By today's sound standards of decent speakers, would these units compete with that kind of sound, or are these simply great sounding and sometimes sought after speakers?
Many thanks in advance,
JP
ironhorsenva@yahoo.com
So there has been a lot of different views in this thread, but there seems to be some support for that there is a difference in quality, both in the rubber and the foam used in surrounds, depending on the material used. Can anybody volonteer to list the good vs. the not so good surround materials, in both foam and rubber? It would be most interesting.
Meanwhile, I have some Paradigm Titan v.2's that have the foam rotting at the cone, and they were sounding really good for some $10 garage sale finds, but they tore, and now rattle like a beast. Should I go with the rubber surrounds? or the foam? I live in Baton Rouge, La, and they are going to be in an insulated metal building shop environment. The humidity is HIGH.
HAHA. I work with high voltage, so Ozone is around too much. My opinion is mixed. Foam seems to work well, particularly with light paper cones. Foam is far too variable. I 'wore out' the foam surround on some Audax that i built for my 1st DIY, less than 5 years old. Conversely, the foam surround on some 70s Goodmans woofers i was gifted, were fine even after 20 years in storage. Neoprene is just more robust. Santoprene i know less of its stability, but it seems very similar. Ive never had damaged rubber, but the cone in some cases is weaker than surround at limits of operation. One thing i really dont like about foam, is the radiation of surround 'noise'. I havent experienced that with rubber, but im not claiming it does not occur.
CLS, most oil pressure gauges contain glycerine, for damping.
CLS, most oil pressure gauges contain glycerine, for damping.
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Ohh Please! Wait a few more years.
But hey! by then the cheap *** Ferrite mags will have lost 25% of their Gauss.. and you likely won't notice that difference either.
Hmmm. Interesting that this issue warrants it's own thread.....
I won't buy speakers with crushed cell foam anymore!
There are a lot of them out there, but I always look at the specs and if I see foam, I say, Oh Well! and keep looking.
It is very disappointing to see a speaker disintegrate and fail right before your eyes. I've seen it way too many times.
I look for just about anything but foam; paper, treated paper, cloth, etc. For woofers I really like butyl rubber.
I have woofers from MCM that I got in 1995 and they look (and work) like they are brand new.
James.
I won't buy speakers with crushed cell foam anymore!
There are a lot of them out there, but I always look at the specs and if I see foam, I say, Oh Well! and keep looking.
It is very disappointing to see a speaker disintegrate and fail right before your eyes. I've seen it way too many times.
I look for just about anything but foam; paper, treated paper, cloth, etc. For woofers I really like butyl rubber.
I have woofers from MCM that I got in 1995 and they look (and work) like they are brand new.
James.
the one real advantage i see with foam is that it is so much lighter than rubber. But running them hard tends to thin the foam where it is tensioned during high excursion, and weakened.
I agree with James, I wouldnt buy a foamed driver again, it just screams cheap and reminds me of those car subs with gaudy foam that lasted about 5 minutes in a damp car, kickers...urgh!
I agree with James, I wouldnt buy a foamed driver again, it just screams cheap and reminds me of those car subs with gaudy foam that lasted about 5 minutes in a damp car, kickers...urgh!
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