Hi,
That trick is certainly not new, it's called electrical segmentation, many DIY builders (including me) employ it too. It's trivially easy to implement if you have wire stators.
-Kenneth
Jer,
I believe you guy when you speak of the bass deficiencies of full band ESL, but honestly these speakers are slamming in the bass. Room filling if the material contains it and less so when the bass content is less. ESL from my limited experience (1 week now) are an no lies "warts and all" presentation but they are so smooth doing it you don't care. I'm sure my room size is not small but also not large so there is enough boundary reinforcement for the bass that there is "slam" and "spank" that is as dynamic as I need or want. I will say the the highs are rolled off but the medallion or other DIY interface mods maybe could improve that. I certainly believe that the notion of true full range ESL is possible only with size for deep bass SPL that don't over drive the panel (excursion). That said there is something I think to the OT of this thread. The floor to ceiling thing and hard mounting create a physical air boundary and a mechanical coupling that could/should improve bass response. I always wondered if a narrow full length line source ESL like a 2+2 with curved wings or an open "baffle" to each side of the line would improve bass much the same as is commonly done with OB dynamic designs.
One thing is for sure the imaging is dicy with these speakers but you can hit secondary sweet spots off to the sides but still quite narrow and more modest highs or less "in your face". I like that when you stand way back the whole room is filled with music.
Anyway I think there is merit to the OT of this thread but the dedication to permanent installation in a room is a problem for sure. I vote for side "wings/baffle) too.
I believe you guy when you speak of the bass deficiencies of full band ESL, but honestly these speakers are slamming in the bass. Room filling if the material contains it and less so when the bass content is less. ESL from my limited experience (1 week now) are an no lies "warts and all" presentation but they are so smooth doing it you don't care. I'm sure my room size is not small but also not large so there is enough boundary reinforcement for the bass that there is "slam" and "spank" that is as dynamic as I need or want. I will say the the highs are rolled off but the medallion or other DIY interface mods maybe could improve that. I certainly believe that the notion of true full range ESL is possible only with size for deep bass SPL that don't over drive the panel (excursion). That said there is something I think to the OT of this thread. The floor to ceiling thing and hard mounting create a physical air boundary and a mechanical coupling that could/should improve bass response. I always wondered if a narrow full length line source ESL like a 2+2 with curved wings or an open "baffle" to each side of the line would improve bass much the same as is commonly done with OB dynamic designs.
One thing is for sure the imaging is dicy with these speakers but you can hit secondary sweet spots off to the sides but still quite narrow and more modest highs or less "in your face". I like that when you stand way back the whole room is filled with music.
Anyway I think there is merit to the OT of this thread but the dedication to permanent installation in a room is a problem for sure. I vote for side "wings/baffle) too.
oh yes,i totaly agree with you on that one ,100%.my frist experience with dipole speakers was when i aquired a set of apogee dueta's and i was shocked of the bass output when listening to clapton unplugged when he was tapping is foot on the wood floor,it was phenomenal.but mind you that speaker placement is very critical with any type of dipole speaker.im not against mounting them from the ceiling to the floor,as the added surface area would deinitely help.and yes side wings would definitely help to cut down the bass cancelations off to the sides.but borats question was"how low will they go",they will go all the way down to 1hz.but the minimum dimension(usely horizontal width) is factor for low end roll off.then you have room gain which compesates for the deffiency of the low end which can be as much as 12db or more depending on the size of the room. jer
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Another DIYer from NewZealand, Dave, pointed this paper out to me a couple of weeks ago. The technique of segmentation is not new, but this paper provides theory behind the technique. The paper focuses on floor to ceiling line sources which have a constant 3dB/Oct slope even at low frequencies. I particularly enjoyed the first section that outlines the interactions between 3 design parameters:
1) segment size
2) number of segments
3) resistor values feeding the segments
and the resulting performance of:
1) efficiency
2) directivity (horizontal dispersion)
3) bandwidth
4) LF cutoff point
5) HF cutoff point
As Keith mentioned this is a theoretical analysis. Among other things the issues of diaphragm resonance, capacitive coupling between segments, and the interaction between panel capacitance & transformer leakage inductance or not considered.
But, with the provided formulas you can quickly size a panel and segmentation for desired performance and understand how the different performance goals are interrelated and the trade-offs involved.
Highly recommended reading.
this is some thing i wish to explore sometime in the near future as i have already built some suitable rigid wire stators (see pics in material for esl thread),and i have several complete documents describing the how's and why's from a few comercial unit's to diy projects that i have collected through the years.there are also some great java applets at falstad.com that graphicaly demonstrate wave propagation and interference that you might find useful you should check them out their quite impressive. jer
most all the the data i have ,i had printed off of "the audio circuit" years ago and by months and months of google searchs in which alot of websites don't exist anymore.if you contact"the audio circuit" for a small fee they will send it to you on a disc.check them out if no luck get back with me and i will search my archive files and papers stuffed in a box some were and see what i can come up with.as this might take some time but i will do my best to try to help you out.jer
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