I see no forum for wire so posting here.
Any technical reasons why flat ribbon cable (.010" thick x .25" wide) is worse that round wire? Such as higher inductance or capacitance.
How do you terminate this stuff? Maybe fold it over a few times onto itself to give it some strength and crimp to a pin?
Any technical reasons why flat ribbon cable (.010" thick x .25" wide) is worse that round wire? Such as higher inductance or capacitance.
How do you terminate this stuff? Maybe fold it over a few times onto itself to give it some strength and crimp to a pin?
A pair of flat conductor will have higher round loop series inductance than two round conductors with the same cross-sectional area and the same spacing between conductors, and will have lower shunt capacitance. Not sure about the inductance of a single flat conductor versus round, but I am guessing they would be approximately the same.
Assuming twin conductors configured as suggested above (shotgun / [a rather flat] figure 8) then as noted, for an equivalent guage a parallel feeder will have higher loop inductance due to the greater effective spacing than regular 'round' wire. If the twin are configured with one stacked on top of the other, inductance will be reduced, but capacitance will increase significantly. Depending on degree, this may be sufficient to cause instability in some amplifiers. Quite a few companies have offered versions of both configurations over the years -the former, assuming relatively flat conductors, is the 'safer' option for obvious reasons.
With a slightly more modest aspect ratio you can drop inductance without putting capacitance absolutely through the roof -Supra for example do that with their Ply range. Although I note they introduced a flatter / 'wider' version of the same CSA a few years back which vanished very quickly -I don't know for certain why, but the potential for issues may have been sufficient that they decided to pull it to save any potential grief. The standard Ply range is moderate enough not to cause issues. The main question really is why you'd want to, unless you're trying to hide it under carpet, or have an install with very little margin for manoeuver in the wall cavity. In performance terms, there is little practical to gain and some significant potential problems.
With a slightly more modest aspect ratio you can drop inductance without putting capacitance absolutely through the roof -Supra for example do that with their Ply range. Although I note they introduced a flatter / 'wider' version of the same CSA a few years back which vanished very quickly -I don't know for certain why, but the potential for issues may have been sufficient that they decided to pull it to save any potential grief. The standard Ply range is moderate enough not to cause issues. The main question really is why you'd want to, unless you're trying to hide it under carpet, or have an install with very little margin for manoeuver in the wall cavity. In performance terms, there is little practical to gain and some significant potential problems.
Flat cable has an appeal for concealment under floor coverings, however in my experience it is never invisible and will cause visible wear lines in the floor covering. Nor does it sound as good (cue confected outrage) though I do not profess to know why, but having conducted many double blind tests spanning nearly four decades I do know that the difference can be quite audible. IMO the only fit purpose for flat ribbon cables as loudspeaker cable is the correct unstable amplifier behaviour where the amplifier designer has omitted the amplifier's de rigueur Theile network, then the cable acts as the missing Theile component.
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ah ah there are some words that don't enter in my brain, cue is some of those; just like pattern or ...( a thousand more)
So I used Translate 😍
Confected is a nice word, never seen it used anywhere. Luckily latin has given birth to similar words root. Confect reminds me of an almond covered with sugar paste, the ones used at marriages (?) or baptisms (??).
So the wires...
Anecdote 1 and 2 ( same person) : loudspeaker cables posed in the 'corrugated tube' used by electrician under the wall, many years ago. It worked ok for ten years till the son grew up and started to crank the volume up. Result: 3 blown amplifiers...well, not blown...the last Sansui had the resistors blown in the Zobel, afterwards I omitted the tone controls which worked in the feedback path by putting just the resistor, etc etc.
All those people lost in the path of hi-fi!
Now, science tells to use the shortest path,well, just enough (....like I was thinking today: directivity...OOOHHH rooms, speakers, listeners....how much directivity? Just enough! ) and that every piece/part of the system must be well thought. We see that people change crossover components, wires from crossover to speakers, binding posts etc. but without a vision of the whole it'll go forever ( and ever).
I suspect that billions of filters and speakers are going to be designed like in the past, the magic word being compromise and, OH!...Waf, yeah, bridal, spouse, house...wires!
Look what I've found yesterday in an angle of my computer desktop!
Cue, as in get ready to start playing; confected, from confection meaning something made up. What I have found in life is that "Inquiry is fatal to certainty" (with apologies to William Durant for stealing his quote).
What about this flat speaker wire ?
1) Flat Wire AWG12
https://www.amazon.de/FlatWire-Lautsprecherkabel-Flachkabel-Meterware-AWG-Transparent/dp/B00I225SFA
2) Nordost Red-Dawn and other
https://www.nordost.com/leif/red-dawn/red-dawn-speaker-cable.php
https://www.nordost.com/speaker-cables.php
3) Sternklang Ephemera
https://en.sternklang.xyz/products/ephemera/index.html
4) Bastanis Nataraja EPILOG
https://www.bastanis.com/audio/cables/interlink-heartbeat
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/speakercables/cables_2.html
5) Dynavox Fat Speaker Wire
https://lautsprecher-technik.com/Ho...x-Flat-Speaker-Wire-2x-9-ft-.html?language=en
6) Görtz
https://www.bridgeportmagnetics.com/bmg-product/flatwire/
https://www.bridgeportmagnetics.com/bmg-product/flatwire/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/goertz-flat-speaker-cable.369414/
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Flat wire stacked ontop of eachother with a thin insulation layer between increases capacitance quite a lot.
The Goertz cables linked above have been known to cause instability and destory amps because of it, so be aware what you buy.
Nordost is overpriced audiophool bling bling.
A good quality copper, EMC cable with plenty AWG for the load, in a round, twisted and shielded cable is where you should look if you believe in cable improvements.
A EMC approved cable, requires 90% outer shield coverage minimum, preferrably a full foil in addition if your pricky.
We all have our preferences for different reasons, being a EE and having seen what havoc EMC/EMI etc, due to lack of proper shielding, does to digital and analog signal communication in industrial bus networks etc has convinced me thats the way to go.
And a house full of cheap 0,5$ smps chinese power supplies is bound to induce such, so can close by conductors of different kinds including the power cable to your amp to some degree.
Also increasing the cross section lowers R which affects yours systems qtc (series resistance).
The shorter the cables are the better, Lower R and less voltage drop.
It is all a balance of tradeoffs/ a compromise as most things audio related.
Using a unshielded cable that acts as a capactior under the right conditions is certainly not for the better in general.
The Goertz cables linked above have been known to cause instability and destory amps because of it, so be aware what you buy.
Nordost is overpriced audiophool bling bling.
A good quality copper, EMC cable with plenty AWG for the load, in a round, twisted and shielded cable is where you should look if you believe in cable improvements.
A EMC approved cable, requires 90% outer shield coverage minimum, preferrably a full foil in addition if your pricky.
We all have our preferences for different reasons, being a EE and having seen what havoc EMC/EMI etc, due to lack of proper shielding, does to digital and analog signal communication in industrial bus networks etc has convinced me thats the way to go.
And a house full of cheap 0,5$ smps chinese power supplies is bound to induce such, so can close by conductors of different kinds including the power cable to your amp to some degree.
Also increasing the cross section lowers R which affects yours systems qtc (series resistance).
The shorter the cables are the better, Lower R and less voltage drop.
It is all a balance of tradeoffs/ a compromise as most things audio related.
Using a unshielded cable that acts as a capactior under the right conditions is certainly not for the better in general.
If capacitive load is present, one need amps with output inductor (serial coil). Unfortunately various models don't use such an inductor.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/inductor-for-output-of-power-amp.271342/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/power-amplifier-output-inductor-specification.303395/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/output-inductor-in-power-amps-pro-and-con.230697/
All of those manufacturers (and every other) get to play with the same laws of physics. The dominant properties of the cable are determined by the size, geometry, dimensions and spacing of the conductors. I had the Nordost Red Dawn and can confirm that no, they don't have an exemption from the laws of physics.
Oh no, not another speaker wire thread...
To the OP:
There must be at least a hundred threads on this topic on this site alone, and I believe there are other audio forums as well.
The above post sums them all up.
The rest is taking advantage of gullible people.
To the OP:
There must be at least a hundred threads on this topic on this site alone, and I believe there are other audio forums as well.
The above post sums them all up.
The rest is taking advantage of gullible people.
Oh yes..... the horse was beaten long ago and buried.
But somehow it comes back to life.