Errors alone can not account for the acquisition of novel functions and only play a minor role in evolution. The real agents of evolution are genetic mobile elements such as viruses and plasmids which upon infection often integrate in cellular genomes. They bring new 'fresh' genes, some useful some not. Mutation is just for the fine tuning if you want.
Well said. I thought I was the only one who saw the value of viruses. Some speculate that the virus was the trigger of life. I really couldn't say.
My ex Rabbi friend says it's 5 era's not days. We might speculate era one was 550 million man years. I asked Paul why he gave up the good book. " I woke up one day Nige and thought this is bol..cks." Hi fi and photography his real passion. He was the marketing director for JVC UK for a long time. The JAS11 his baby and Mobile Fidelity records ( he recomended the idea for an unused facility ). A bit like the other thing he lost Faith I feel when JVC. I think JVC L3/L5 DD linear tracking turntables can live with the best except where the eye might judge.
My ex Rabbi friend says it's 5 era's not days. We might speculate era one was 550 million man years. I asked Paul why he gave up the good book. " I woke up one day Nige and thought this is bol..cks." Hi fi and photography his real passion. He was the marketing director for JVC UK for a long time. The JAS11 his baby and Mobile Fidelity records ( he recomended the idea for an unused facility ). A bit like the other thing he lost Faith I feel when JVC. I think JVC L3/L5 DD linear tracking turntables can live with the best except where the eye might judge.
It's interesting that the general orientation seems to be physically based, ie. that it all springs from DNA. That there was some sort of elemental rolling of dice resulting in the combining of materials and that through their physical properties formed a gook . . . . that started to pulsate . . . . . and later think.
It has been shown that states of mind can alter DNA so I wonder if it's all that crazy to think that consciousness precedes the evolutionary step, that the fish wanted to get out of the water (in the sense that maybe it tries to punch through the boundary it keeps meeting at the beach), that the dinosaur wanted to fly, and taking it a lot farther, that the universe itself is conscious and looking for ways to express itself , resulting in a variety of living expressions.
It has been shown that states of mind can alter DNA so I wonder if it's all that crazy to think that consciousness precedes the evolutionary step, that the fish wanted to get out of the water (in the sense that maybe it tries to punch through the boundary it keeps meeting at the beach), that the dinosaur wanted to fly, and taking it a lot farther, that the universe itself is conscious and looking for ways to express itself , resulting in a variety of living expressions.
Some of the more recent posts are verging to far over to religious/political areas of discussion.
As per the forum rules, these are out of bounds.
As per the forum rules, these are out of bounds.
Excellent thoughts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime
I hardly ever dream about audio. The other day I did. I was at a hi fi show and there were some large speakers much like Harbeth. I heard the depth in the music. Better than any real speaker and then the one note boom of a ported design which most fail to detect. I said to myself I should buy a pair and then said the boom would stop me. Two guys about 35 years of age were showing a new FM turner with remarkable sound. A little better than a Marantz Model 10. They were producing FM from a stored music device that could mimic multipath. Their tuner could reduce multipath to near zero. Funny thing , near zero on the demo and not zero.
Then the weirdest thing. I recited to them that FM had about 108 verses 73 times some factor packets per second of music imformation. I went on the say the FM could not be as accurately decoded as 16 bit linear encoding so the latter " should " be beter. They looked bemused and I walked away thinking this. It's too late in the day to make this product and where did these lads get the money.
The thing that got me on waking was the solid everything detail, looks and the conversation. Often if I realise I wake up. This time I finished the dream.
I speculate that people who have vision ability may in fact have a slight defect in being able to dream an answer whilst awake. LSD will do much the same thing I am told. Often an answer to an idea I wished to solve comes whilst driving and maybe 33 years later. It never caused me to lose control. The problem is to stop as soon as possible to write it down. In Oxford where I worked for 23 years I was allowed to park at Lucy's iron foundry ( hidden in the city ). It was just like Turner's painting of Dudley sometimes and as old as the industrial revolution. The walk was on the Oxford Canal about 15 minutes if taking my time. That's where I got my best thoughts. One day I was walking very late at dusk on the same canal just about at Kirtlington. It was an unpleasent and yet very safe feeling. It took me a while to work it out. It was a world that no longer exists of the 18 th century. If a writer I suspect I could have used it. The feeling was so strong as to be dream like. A lady talked to me. She made it worse as she seemed out of time also. Walking to the village soon restored time. She was just a person who suited that time better from our time. Jane Austen's time.
I view FMC as the antimatter version of a dream. Same levers being pulled. Often the boss of a company like that is an equal victim of the dream and all is not too bad. I was once told how it was to work for Panasonic. No thank you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime
I hardly ever dream about audio. The other day I did. I was at a hi fi show and there were some large speakers much like Harbeth. I heard the depth in the music. Better than any real speaker and then the one note boom of a ported design which most fail to detect. I said to myself I should buy a pair and then said the boom would stop me. Two guys about 35 years of age were showing a new FM turner with remarkable sound. A little better than a Marantz Model 10. They were producing FM from a stored music device that could mimic multipath. Their tuner could reduce multipath to near zero. Funny thing , near zero on the demo and not zero.
Then the weirdest thing. I recited to them that FM had about 108 verses 73 times some factor packets per second of music imformation. I went on the say the FM could not be as accurately decoded as 16 bit linear encoding so the latter " should " be beter. They looked bemused and I walked away thinking this. It's too late in the day to make this product and where did these lads get the money.
The thing that got me on waking was the solid everything detail, looks and the conversation. Often if I realise I wake up. This time I finished the dream.
I speculate that people who have vision ability may in fact have a slight defect in being able to dream an answer whilst awake. LSD will do much the same thing I am told. Often an answer to an idea I wished to solve comes whilst driving and maybe 33 years later. It never caused me to lose control. The problem is to stop as soon as possible to write it down. In Oxford where I worked for 23 years I was allowed to park at Lucy's iron foundry ( hidden in the city ). It was just like Turner's painting of Dudley sometimes and as old as the industrial revolution. The walk was on the Oxford Canal about 15 minutes if taking my time. That's where I got my best thoughts. One day I was walking very late at dusk on the same canal just about at Kirtlington. It was an unpleasent and yet very safe feeling. It took me a while to work it out. It was a world that no longer exists of the 18 th century. If a writer I suspect I could have used it. The feeling was so strong as to be dream like. A lady talked to me. She made it worse as she seemed out of time also. Walking to the village soon restored time. She was just a person who suited that time better from our time. Jane Austen's time.
I view FMC as the antimatter version of a dream. Same levers being pulled. Often the boss of a company like that is an equal victim of the dream and all is not too bad. I was once told how it was to work for Panasonic. No thank you.
I hope my Dreamtime link is OK. It is to support the idea of extreme dreams. It need have nothing to do with the banned ideas. Just to say dreaming may be very real and useful. When we stopped living in caves and had to make our caves about 10 000 years ago perhaps that changed the use of our DNA. That is to say the chemical and the change are not 100% mutation. One could specualte that using devices like phones and other related devices is changing DNA. This dawn thing that I use right now and my dyslexia. Someone who isn't dylexic has no idea. It's like runing backwards. I also think my trying to master spelling ruins my design ability.
It appears that some creatures, I'm thinking primarily of some birds, know how, when and where to migrate without their parents guidance. Could it be that this instinct and more than that, a certain knowledge, is passed through DNA that has been modified by the learning of the previous generations?
Worms fed to worms do something like this. It's hard to trust things like that as people fake research.
DIY Audio is good as people need to supply proof. I never could get a Alex Kitic amp to work like his sims by a factor of 2 or worse. Funny thing is they gave Alex a real telling off, never for that. A FET + 5881 amp by Michael Koster ( ?? ) looked to be what it said of that type. It you want to knock someone usually the simple truth is enough.
DIY Audio is good as people need to supply proof. I never could get a Alex Kitic amp to work like his sims by a factor of 2 or worse. Funny thing is they gave Alex a real telling off, never for that. A FET + 5881 amp by Michael Koster ( ?? ) looked to be what it said of that type. It you want to knock someone usually the simple truth is enough.
This is still controversial although there are some reports that it can occur. There was a guy Lamarck who was advocating it but his views have been largely discredited.
But it is not required. Regular evolution can easily explain it - the better you can find your way around, the better the chances are that you get lots of offspring, which will have your genes that help them to navigate.
Jan
That makes sense, but how do you know where to go if you haven't been told? The young ospreys who fledge near me make their first migration alone
I saw an Osprey for the first time in my life near Ffestiniog. Wow. The Magpies also saw it, they were not as happy as me. I thought nothing eats a Magpie, maybe wrong. We were near a Magnox Power Station ( as was ) up on a hill. Colleen said " what's that castle " ? From a distance maybe.
How does a baby know how/when to crawl up to a breast, put it's mouth around a nipple and start to suck? Do you know a 6 hrs old baby has a concept of 'under-pressure' ? ;-)
Some elementary stuff is preprogrammed in the brain.
Heart regulation, breathing, blood pressure; feedback and control systems running off the bat (and before). Birds flying.
No need to learn; you can't even stop it if you wanted.
Jan
Climbing up to a nipple because you're hungry is a little different than "knowing" you have to fly to West Africa (not that you know it's name of course) for the same reason 😉. So, yes, pre-programmed in the brain, ie, the DNA? How did it get there if not through some kind of hereditary learning?
Basic evolution. Definitely not hereditairy learning.
It looks like prepropgrammed from our point of view, but that does not mean 'someone' did the programming.
Possibly scenario:
In a far, misty past some beings secreted some liquid as a byproduct of all the bodily changes of giving birth. Some of the offspring, having (from earlier evolutionay developments) a tendency to lap up anything liquid, actually grew faster and more robust if they happened to lap up the motherly secretions rather than the water that was available. This offspring had thus a bigger chance to generate offspring in turn, and since they would have their genes, this new offspring would also have a tendency to lap up bodily secretions rather than water.
At the same time, of course, those beings that secreted 'better' liquids produced offspring that in turn produced more offspring so this new offspring, when the time came to give birth, produced 'better' secretions.
So you are now on a road to generations that lap up bodily secretions and also produced more/better bodily secretions. You can see where this leads, breasts and nipples are just a refinement in few 100 more milleniums.
Not saying this is how it happened, but it is a very plausible possibility understanding the way evolution by natural selection works. Not that there is nobody who does any selection - it's just the way things work.
If you survive, you pass on your genes; if you don't, over time your genes disappear from the gene pool. So it is unavoidable that the genes that helped you survive get propagated.
Jan
I don't mean to be a pain in the ****. I believe I understand the basics of evolution, mutation and natural selection and your scenario is perfectly acceptable to me and I don't see the requirement for a programmer or master plan. I simply don't see how my baby ospreys know which way to go or how that knowledge became implanted into their DNA (for surely that must be the case) unless it was somehow changed through the ancestors actions. May be I'm not making myself clear (quite possible). Just to reiterate, they make their first migration totally alone, they don't travel with their parents.
No you are perfectly clear, but conceptually it is exactly the same as a suckling baby. Ospreys, as a species, didn't spring into being all of a sudden, with all the knowledge where to go and when.
Think of a species that has the habit (from earlier evolutionay changes) to roam far from where they were born. Some strayed North, perhaps they were attracted to a certain sun position during the day, and most of them died a horrible death when winter came. Only a few of them passed on their genes.
Some others roamed South, and they actually did quite well, no cold, lots of juicy whatevertheyeat, getting lots of offspring. So you just wait another few 100 millenia and you got yourself a (sub) species that tends to roam South. They are born that way, thanks to grandfathers many times removed.
Just one of many scenarios. Maybe they were living in an area where some other species always came south in winter and took their food. The ones that just were fleeing from the others, which was necessarily south because the invaders came from the north, survived and had offspring that tended to flee south at any challenge. Then the step to going south even without a challenge is trivial.
Jan
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