Hello All!
I'm new here so allow me to introduce myself:
My name is Art and I am involved in a few aspects of the music business; primarily as a luthier. I also work for a music festival. Our show happens early August, caters to about 10,000 guests and has 5 concurrently running stages featuring predominantly electronic music. The stage I represent is considerably more varied as we run the gambit from single DJ's right up to 11 piece bands with horns -even a a group of acoustic marimba players this year.
One of the unique things about this event is the fact that it's held on private property and because of this, our stages are permanent installations built from steel, concrete and heavy gauge timbers. This coming year my stage director is planning a major renovation. Allow me to present our current stage:
Rock Pitstage - a set on Flickr
The amphitheater and stage were built in 2005 as was the main roof, which has grown and evolved over the years. The shot with the system on it is the rig we ran this year. That wall of sound contains 8 Labs and 12 shop-built Martin WSX clones. (the two SBT's were not actually in use). The stage itself is 17 feet from the front poles to the back; 12 feet of which I think will be useable for what I am about to propose. It's currently just over a meter high an will probably be raised a bit. For argument's sake let's say the useable depth for volume is 1 meter. Now the really clever out there already know where I'm going with this: HORNS IN THE FLOOR!!
We've dreamt for years of a stage with no visible bass. Since we're going to redo the floor and foundation, why not get SERIOUSLY purpose specific! I've been tasked with the initial feasibility study and cost analysis. To do this I need to work through a significant portion of the design to get an accurate handle on component costs.
As far as horn construction goes, there is one overriding issue for any design: Flooding. Every year the pit spends at least a month under water (often right up to the stage floor). For this reason, concrete and quite possibly bricks and mortar will be the materials of choice. As far as stability and performance go I can't think of a better material; flooding or not. Many of you have already seen this:
IL PIU' GRANDE SUBWOOFER DEL MONDO - by Roberto Delle Curti - Italy
I want to do that on a larger scale. With MORE horns... (My dream would be to have a TRW-17 fan unit(s) in a large center cavity -but that's at least $20k)
So there's my project, in a nutshell...
I'm here for as much input as I can get! Considering how massive, unique and just down right potentially cool this project is, I want to involve as many minds as possible. If speaker-builder forums are anything like the guitar-builder forums I frequent, then I know there's an unlimited resource of passionate, opinionated and brilliant minds out there that just love to geek out on this kinda stuff...
At the moment I'm reading everything I can get my hands on and would GREATLY appreciate any recommendations. I'm also trying to scrounge up an old PC to learn hornresp and whatever other apps I can find. Again any recommendations or help in this direction would awesome (are there any mac platform simulators out there?) Beyond my own education, I'm looking for ideas! Open your minds and engage that lateral thinking. There's no limitations due to cabinet size here so go crazy! We can zig-zag in any direction, run horizontally across the stage... This is dance music so the lower the better -I'm thinking at least a mid-bass and bass design with a possibility of adding the fan unit to get right down to 5Hz. Where I REALLY need the help is with the industry 'shorthand'; my theoretical knowledge is growing rapidly so I'm looking for real world experience: Driver recommendations, crossover/protection and such -reading ad copy is one thing, but what are you actually using out there in the field? Also design ideas: Bigger horns with bigger/multiple drivers or smaller horns and more of them? These are the opinions I'm after.
I've been looking at every horn design I can find, thinking of what would be the most efficient use of space. I was initially thinking of designing a pair of front loaded horns that could be nested in pairs (think yin-yan or pisces). Most recently I've been considering a tapped horn with a single fold; much like this design, but without the bend at the mouth (the mouth would just flare past the driver).
<meta name="description" content="Klipsch audio systems provide the true audio/video lover a wide variety of high performance loudspeakers and loudspeaker systems for music and home theater entertainment centers, including iPod speakers, multimedia s
The idea would be to orient these on their side, mouth to the front of the stage with access panels to the driver(s) for insertion/removal and at the bend for cleaning. (Any sediment deposited by the water will need to be hosed out).. One could fit a lot of these under that floor!
art...
If this thread would be better suited in the 'SUB' forum feel free to move it!
I'm new here so allow me to introduce myself:
My name is Art and I am involved in a few aspects of the music business; primarily as a luthier. I also work for a music festival. Our show happens early August, caters to about 10,000 guests and has 5 concurrently running stages featuring predominantly electronic music. The stage I represent is considerably more varied as we run the gambit from single DJ's right up to 11 piece bands with horns -even a a group of acoustic marimba players this year.
One of the unique things about this event is the fact that it's held on private property and because of this, our stages are permanent installations built from steel, concrete and heavy gauge timbers. This coming year my stage director is planning a major renovation. Allow me to present our current stage:
Rock Pitstage - a set on Flickr
The amphitheater and stage were built in 2005 as was the main roof, which has grown and evolved over the years. The shot with the system on it is the rig we ran this year. That wall of sound contains 8 Labs and 12 shop-built Martin WSX clones. (the two SBT's were not actually in use). The stage itself is 17 feet from the front poles to the back; 12 feet of which I think will be useable for what I am about to propose. It's currently just over a meter high an will probably be raised a bit. For argument's sake let's say the useable depth for volume is 1 meter. Now the really clever out there already know where I'm going with this: HORNS IN THE FLOOR!!
We've dreamt for years of a stage with no visible bass. Since we're going to redo the floor and foundation, why not get SERIOUSLY purpose specific! I've been tasked with the initial feasibility study and cost analysis. To do this I need to work through a significant portion of the design to get an accurate handle on component costs.
As far as horn construction goes, there is one overriding issue for any design: Flooding. Every year the pit spends at least a month under water (often right up to the stage floor). For this reason, concrete and quite possibly bricks and mortar will be the materials of choice. As far as stability and performance go I can't think of a better material; flooding or not. Many of you have already seen this:
IL PIU' GRANDE SUBWOOFER DEL MONDO - by Roberto Delle Curti - Italy
I want to do that on a larger scale. With MORE horns... (My dream would be to have a TRW-17 fan unit(s) in a large center cavity -but that's at least $20k)
So there's my project, in a nutshell...
I'm here for as much input as I can get! Considering how massive, unique and just down right potentially cool this project is, I want to involve as many minds as possible. If speaker-builder forums are anything like the guitar-builder forums I frequent, then I know there's an unlimited resource of passionate, opinionated and brilliant minds out there that just love to geek out on this kinda stuff...
At the moment I'm reading everything I can get my hands on and would GREATLY appreciate any recommendations. I'm also trying to scrounge up an old PC to learn hornresp and whatever other apps I can find. Again any recommendations or help in this direction would awesome (are there any mac platform simulators out there?) Beyond my own education, I'm looking for ideas! Open your minds and engage that lateral thinking. There's no limitations due to cabinet size here so go crazy! We can zig-zag in any direction, run horizontally across the stage... This is dance music so the lower the better -I'm thinking at least a mid-bass and bass design with a possibility of adding the fan unit to get right down to 5Hz. Where I REALLY need the help is with the industry 'shorthand'; my theoretical knowledge is growing rapidly so I'm looking for real world experience: Driver recommendations, crossover/protection and such -reading ad copy is one thing, but what are you actually using out there in the field? Also design ideas: Bigger horns with bigger/multiple drivers or smaller horns and more of them? These are the opinions I'm after.
I've been looking at every horn design I can find, thinking of what would be the most efficient use of space. I was initially thinking of designing a pair of front loaded horns that could be nested in pairs (think yin-yan or pisces). Most recently I've been considering a tapped horn with a single fold; much like this design, but without the bend at the mouth (the mouth would just flare past the driver).
<meta name="description" content="Klipsch audio systems provide the true audio/video lover a wide variety of high performance loudspeakers and loudspeaker systems for music and home theater entertainment centers, including iPod speakers, multimedia s
The idea would be to orient these on their side, mouth to the front of the stage with access panels to the driver(s) for insertion/removal and at the bend for cleaning. (Any sediment deposited by the water will need to be hosed out).. One could fit a lot of these under that floor!
art...
If this thread would be better suited in the 'SUB' forum feel free to move it!
Well due to the flooding issue I think you could build the horn and compression chamber under the stage I would use blocks and mortar and then later on when you go to do your show add the enclosure with all of the woofers and latch it right on to the compression chamber
this way the subwoofer enclosure will be safe from theft and also safe from water
You could also use multiple 18 inch drivers on each enclosure that bolt on to the concrete horns
this way the subwoofer enclosure will be safe from theft and also safe from water
You could also use multiple 18 inch drivers on each enclosure that bolt on to the concrete horns
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if you want to get loud and low down to the frequencIes you have specIfIed It Is gonna cost a lot of money But if you want to get down to the frequencies for duB step which is usually 20 hertz and up then it will be easier,unless you have some instrument that goes down to 5 hz, by the way how wide is the stage from side to side
Hey Top Shelf thanks for your interest!
Useable width is around 25 feet
I'm going to try to get out to the site this weekend and take some detailed measurements as well as put together some other information as I have compiled some really good questions from some other forums as well.
I'll return when I something more for you.
In the meantime if anyone else out there wants to chime in...
Useable width is around 25 feet
I'm going to try to get out to the site this weekend and take some detailed measurements as well as put together some other information as I have compiled some really good questions from some other forums as well.
I'll return when I something more for you.
In the meantime if anyone else out there wants to chime in...
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